Poll: Non-Heterosexuality: A Possibly Unpopular Opinion

[bobknowsall]

*snip*

Look, I don't advocate discrimination against gays, okay? I actually mentioned that in my OP. I'm just talking about ways to avoid said discrimination when you're anonymous.

I'd like to point out I've never accused you of it. Though you've still not answered my question and I'm genuinely interested to know so I'll ask it more directly:

Would you have posted this thread if you'd seen discussions of skin colour and seen black people getting flamed for being black people?

And if the answer is in the negative, why the difference?

I've seen both, but I've never been exposed to racial hatred, so I didn't want to start pontificating about something I know nothing about. I am not black, so I couldn't say what it's like to be discriminated against for being black.

 

[Tharwen]

People should choose, as they do.

 

[Sammi Costello]

You missed it entirely, I said CONSTANTLY, if you run into the same guy every day who all ways bashes homosexual people chances are he is either afraid of them, or denying it. I'm not talking about subtle hints, I went to school with this guy who nearly every twenty minutes he would whip out a gay joke, after the first six he was out of material and kept repeating the same ones, saying anyone who doesn't find it amusing is a fag. Now tell me that someone who would troll forums complaining about homos all the time ACTIVELY SEARCHING FOR THREADS LIKE THESE TO BASH HOMOSEXUALS isn't hiding something.

It doesn't mean that these people are secretly gay, no. It might mean that these people are quite biased, it might be something they are particularly passionate about, but it doesn't instantly mean that they're in the closet, so to speak.

 

[bobknowsall]

You missed it entirely, I said CONSTANTLY, if you run into the same guy every day who all ways bashes homosexual people chances are he is either afraid of them, or denying it. I'm not talking about subtle hints, I went to school with this guy who nearly every twenty minutes he would whip out a gay joke, after the first six he was out of material and kept repeating the same ones, saying anyone who doesn't find it amusing is a fag. Now tell me that someone who would troll forums complaining about homos all the time ACTIVELY SEARCHING FOR THREADS LIKE THESE TO BASH HOMOSEXUALS isn't hiding something.

It doesn't mean that these people are secretly gay, no. It might mean that these people are quite biased, it might be something they are particularly passionate about, but it doesn't instantly mean that they're in the closet, so to speak.

I second this post. Being a gay-basher does not mean you are gay. Some gay-bashers are self-hating closet cases, but not all of them.

 

[TheSquirrelisKing]

I voted other. Frankly, I think people should feel free to talk about their sexuality, and being gay, lesbian, bi, trans, whatever I don't care you know? That's your business and it has no baring on what kind of person you are.
On the other hand, not all of society is as readily accepting of differences as other people, and also it is the internet. While I wish some people would grow up, you have to understand there is a certain amount of risk of flaming and ridicule on the internet. So while technically my answer should have been "yes" because if they can't handle the risk they shouldn't risk it, I felt that it needed a "but" tagged on there.

 

[JemJar]

*snip*

snipped

I'd like to point out I've never accused you of it. Though you've still not answered my question and I'm genuinely interested to know so I'll ask it more directly:

Would you have posted this thread if you'd seen discussions of skin colour and seen black people getting flamed for being black people?

And if the answer is in the negative, why the difference?

I've seen both, but I've never been exposed to racial hatred, so I didn't want to start pontificating about something I know nothing about. I am not black, so I couldn't say what it's like to be discriminated against for being black.

You admitted on page 4 that you're not gay either and yet here we are. And your ability to avoid answering a simple question leads me to believe a stellar career in politics is in your future.

I'll admit I'm slightly cruelly putting you on the spot on this one. But I honestly believe that discriminating against homosexuals is no better than racism, sexism or religious discrimination. And the idea that people who can't take it on the chin shouldn't put their heads out over the parapet doesn't fly, you shouldn't have to be responsible for the consequences of other people's actions in response to perfectly legitimately expressing feelings, opinions and personal facts.

It honestly isn't a long step from there to deciding that dressing sluttily is inviting rape, but that argument is done to death already.

 

[bobknowsall]

*snip*

snipped

I'd like to point out I've never accused you of it. Though you've still not answered my question and I'm genuinely interested to know so I'll ask it more directly:

Would you have posted this thread if you'd seen discussions of skin colour and seen black people getting flamed for being black people?

And if the answer is in the negative, why the difference?

I've seen both, but I've never been exposed to racial hatred, so I didn't want to start pontificating about something I know nothing about. I am not black, so I couldn't say what it's like to be discriminated against for being black.

You admitted on page 4 that you're not gay either and yet here we are. And your ability to avoid answering a simple question leads me to believe a stellar career in politics is in your future.

I'll admit I'm slightly cruelly putting you on the spot on this one. But I honestly believe that discriminating against homosexuals is no better than racism, sexism or religious discrimination. And the idea that people who can't take it on the chin shouldn't put their heads out over the parapet doesn't fly, you shouldn't have to be responsible for the consequences of other people's actions in response to perfectly legitimately expressing feelings, opinions and personal facts.

It honestly isn't a long step from there to deciding that dressing sluttily is inviting rape, but that argument is done to death already.

I'm bisexual, which opens me up to just as much ridicule as a gay person would receive.

I don't agree with discrimination, and I think homophobia is vile. But not everyone thinks like me.

 

[ma55ter_fett]

There are a lot of threads on the escapist that touch on the issue of sex preference. So that being said it is often very hard to avoid repeating ones self on the escapist.

If you talk about you sexual preference online people will respond be it positive or negative.

So with that disclaimer I will talk sex for a bit

I'm a dude and I like the ladies, there are no men who I would go "gay for" but there are a number of women I would go "freaky for".

I don't mind people who are attracted to persons of there same sex, and I don't mind if they are forward with their sexual prefrence.

I mean it's the internet, sooner or later you will see/hear/read everything.

 

[VanityGirl]

No one should say anything without thinking it through anyway, whether they be online or just carrying on a conversation with new people.

I don't think anyone should throw their sexuality around at the most random time. My friend is gay, but she'll randomly throw that fact around to the point of annoyance. I'm straight and proud, but I'm not going to toss it into every conversation.

My friend: "It's lovely weather outside. It reminds me of why I'm a lesbian"

Me: "...What?"

 

[lacktheknack]

Basic cynical answer: Yes, because there WILL be backlash. Other people are idiots, so be prepared.

 

[Klarinette]

I don't see why there is any backlash to begin with. People care far too much about what other people are doing. Homosexuality is one of those things that I really wonder about; why it gets so much attention, especially of the negative variety. Granted, some gay people aren't doing anything about the spread of AIDS (or anything else, for that matter... bacteria, etc!!! Use rubbers, man!), but someone just being gay... it's so harmless and inconsequential.

 

[Cosmic Naginata]

Short answer no, no one should have to keep silent out of fear.
A question I would put in the "Other" category - Should we hetrosexuals be more open about our tolerance?

How do you suggest we eliminate that fear, then? Make everyone happy and accepting? That's just not possible.

Ah, "tolerance". Lovely little word, that. A hippo "tolerates" the ticks on its back. I think non-heterosexuals would rather be "accepted".

In response to your question: No. It would be incredibly condescending.

I had to re-read your response a few times because I was thinking hang on a moment why do I get the feeling this is a negative response. It jusy clicked, ironically tolerance is the worst word I could have used. A tolerant society doesnt necessarily mean an equal one. Thank you for alerting me to that. Your response to my question is correct it would be condescending.

Acceptance is what is needed.

 

[Seldon2639]

I don't talk about what particular kinks, fetishes, toys, and paraphilias (of all stripes) get my jollies off. I ask only the same respect. If you don't want to hear about what I do in the bedroom with candle wax, a spreader bar, and a gimp suit, I damn sure don't want to hear about anything you do in your bedroom.

It's unfortunate that you aren't protected by the same laws as I, but it's just my personal frame of reference. It's also quite likely that the issue originally rose to prominence here in the States. (I haven't been paying attention, but we have a way of whining about this kind of thing.)

In any case, my standpoint comes from the issue's relation to cultural identity. To play the devil's advocate, would it be appropriate to include references to other sexual proclivities? Would it be reasonable for a pedophile to be identified via their online identity? Or is it a matter of "if you're silly enough to tell people what you do in private, it's your own damn fault for what may happen?"

To shed a part of your anonymity online - what do you have to lose, or to gain?

But, we're not talking about forcing people to announce their proclivities and predilections. I don't have to engage in threads about sexuality, I don't need to tell people anything I enjoy. If I happen to enjoy dressing up as a baby and getting spanked by a woman dressed like Sarah Palin, I (by god) don't need to tell people about it.

And if I do, I have to be ready for the inevitable rejection, derision, and approbation that comes with that disclosure.

I'm straight myself, but to me, I see sexuality as something you cannot control, nor would you want too. You have to proud of what you are. Furthermore, I think that anyone of any sexuality should be able to state it on the internet without fear of backlash, and to tell them that they should deal with the backlash seems wrong, but that's the world we live in. One of prejudice and intolerance of difference. So while I'd like to say they should put the details anywhere without fear of backlash, the backlash is going to exist for a long time.

That's respectable, but you're couching your language. If what you mean is that anyone with any enormity to their sexuality should be free to discuss it on the interwebs without backlash, I can respect and support that. But, until homosexuals/furries/everyone else who feels they're persecuted for other people not wanting to hear about their sexual exploits will support me talking about my fantasies and kinks, it's all hot air.

The difference between homosexuality and corprophilia/necrophilia/beastiality/pedophilia is acceptability by any individual. But I don't get to talk about being a sadist into necro-beastiality (enjoying beating a dead horse, natch) without everyone calling me a sick bastard, so it's not fair to force anyone to sit idly by and not respond in kind to other sexual behaviors they find disgusting.

 

[cyber_andyy]

Well if you go out and are one of these types who rubs it in your face constantly, then yes you should be prepared for backlash. Its like walking into 1960's America and proposing Obamas new health bill, I've seen some of the American backlash, imagine what it would be like then? Sure, you can think that way, be prepared for lynchings.

I have an openly gay friend, we talk about it quite openly, but hes not the type to go around telling the whole WORLD about it. He knows the line.

 

[Seldon2639]

I don't see why there is any backlash to begin with. People care far too much about what other people are doing. Homosexuality is one of those things that I really wonder about; why it gets so much attention, especially of the negative variety. Granted, some gay people aren't doing anything about the spread of AIDS (or anything else, for that matter... bacteria, etc!!! Use rubbers, man!), but someone just being gay... it's so harmless and inconsequential.

Except why do I need to know about it? No one on this site knows my actual sexual preferences (they can guess, but I've never said). No one knows any of my predilections, my kinks, my fetishes. I can joke about really disgusting ones, but only because I know everyone will agree that people would be really disturbed to want to do that.

But, then, we're applying the same normative standard that "bigots" apply to homosexuality. My point is that we're all prejudiced. Some things are just too weird, to freaky, too disgusting for us to even consider acceptable. And we deride them. The difference between that and "homophobia" (which, itself, is a misnomer and not accepted by the medical community) is semantic at best.

Either we must accept everyone, and whatever sexual deviance and perversions (both meaning simply varying from the average) they have. Or we must accept that the same standard by which you find watersports disgusting, other people will find furries, homosexuals, and foot-fetishists disgusting.

I'm all for acceptance, tolerance, or whatever other buzzword we want to use, but I don't believe it's possible. If you believe all sexualities must be respected, you must accept everything as being kosher. If you accept that some sexuality is perverse and "wrong", then you must accept the subjective nature of that declaration, and that there are those who will find behaviors you accept to be just as disgusting as behaviors you find vile.

Until a man (or woman, or any other combination) can read a laundry list of the most "out there" fetishes ever discussed by Dan Savage in his column, and do so without even a hint of derision, we must expect, accept, and understand that there will be just as adverse a reaction from some to homosexuality/transgendered/gender queer/whatever else as there are from non-bigots toward aforementioned weird fetishes.

 

[JemJar]

*snip*

snipped

I'd like to point out I've never accused you of it. Though you've still not answered my question and I'm genuinely interested to know so I'll ask it more directly:

Would you have posted this thread if you'd seen discussions of skin colour and seen black people getting flamed for being black people?

And if the answer is in the negative, why the difference?

I've seen both, but I've never been exposed to racial hatred, so I didn't want to start pontificating about something I know nothing about. I am not black, so I couldn't say what it's like to be discriminated against for being black.

You admitted on page 4 that you're not gay either and yet here we are. And your ability to avoid answering a simple question leads me to believe a stellar career in politics is in your future.

I'll admit I'm slightly cruelly putting you on the spot on this one. But I honestly believe that discriminating against homosexuals is no better than racism, sexism or religious discrimination. And the idea that people who can't take it on the chin shouldn't put their heads out over the parapet doesn't fly, you shouldn't have to be responsible for the consequences of other people's actions in response to perfectly legitimately expressing feelings, opinions and personal facts.

It honestly isn't a long step from there to deciding that dressing sluttily is inviting rape, but that argument is done to death already.

I'm bisexual, which opens me up to just as much ridicule as a gay person would receive.

I don't agree with discrimination, and I think homophobia is vile. But not everyone thinks like me.

Duly noted. Though I still contend that you wouldn't have posted this thread about racism. The fact that people don't take discrimination against homosexuals as seriously as racism sits very badly with me.

Anyway, unless anyone has any questions I'm off to watch a film, have a lovely night - Bob you argue your point well, I salute a good debater even if I'm not going to agree with you

 

[GonzoGamer]

In answer to OP:
Not in this century.

I'm not gay (and neither is anyone in my family) but I've lived in NYC my whole life so the whole gay thing doesn't phase me any more, even the public displays of affection.

Honestly, I don't understand why people concern themselves with it if they aren't gay. Like the whole gay marriage thing: I don't understand why a straight person would care or even have a say for that matter and I don't know why the government is involved either. If anyone has a right to not allow it it's the churches; I can see the catholic church not allowing it but for the government to not allow it is absurd. And I also have to question the sexuality of the people who are so vehemently against it; why do they care so much if it's not going to affect them?

I think gay people are all-right, it's the hypocrites that pretend to not be gay while going nuts about the topic that creep me out: those are the people who tap their feet in airport bathrooms.

People really shouldn't be so affected by it, I agree with you there. But some people overreact astonishingly, and they can say extremely hurtful and derogatory things. I just feel that people should remember that these people aren't going to back down, and that attracting their attention can have adverse effects.

Sorry, I don't buy that. I think these people who don't back down just end up exposing how bigoted, stupid, and in many cases closeted they are when they blow up on these subjects. And I think we should know who these people are. You can't just let people stew in their prejudices, you have to expose them for how pants they are.

It's like what HL Menken said:

"The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous. Is it, perchance, cherished by persons who should know better? Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame.
"True enough, even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred."

He wrote this in relation to the Scopes trial but I think it applies to homophobes as well; even those who don't use religion as an excuse for their bigotry. But I think gay people should be as open as they feel comfortable being (especially on line where there's no threat of violence) so they can expose these superstitious bigots because only then can they be made to feel ashamed.