Poll: Non-Heterosexuality: A Possibly Unpopular Opinion

[Klarinette]

I don't see why there is any backlash to begin with. People care far too much about what other people are doing. Homosexuality is one of those things that I really wonder about; why it gets so much attention, especially of the negative variety. Granted, some gay people aren't doing anything about the spread of AIDS (or anything else, for that matter... bacteria, etc!!! Use rubbers, man!), but someone just being gay... it's so harmless and inconsequential.

Except why do I need to know about it? No one on this site knows my actual sexual preferences (they can guess, but I've never said). No one knows any of my predilections, my kinks, my fetishes. I can joke about really disgusting ones, but only because I know everyone will agree that people would be really disturbed to want to do that.

But, then, we're applying the same normative standard that "bigots" apply to homosexuality. My point is that we're all prejudiced. Some things are just too weird, to freaky, too disgusting for us to even consider acceptable. And we deride them. The difference between that and "homophobia" (which, itself, is a misnomer and not accepted by the medical community) is semantic at best.

Either we must accept everyone, and whatever sexual deviance and perversions (both meaning simply varying from the average) they have. Or we must accept that the same standard by which you find watersports disgusting, other people will find furries, homosexuals, and foot-fetishists disgusting.

I'm all for acceptance, tolerance, or whatever other buzzword we want to use, but I don't believe it's possible. If you believe all sexualities must be respected, you must accept everything as being kosher. If you accept that some sexuality is perverse and "wrong", then you must accept the subjective nature of that declaration, and that there are those who will find behaviors you accept to be just as disgusting as behaviors you find vile.

Until a man (or woman, or any other combination) can read a laundry list of the most "out there" fetishes ever discussed by Dan Savage in his column, and do so without even a hint of derision, we must expect, accept, and understand that there will be just as adverse a reaction from some to homosexuality/transgendered/gender queer/whatever else as there are from non-bigots toward aforementioned weird fetishes.

It's one thing to be completely out there about it (i.e. pride parades and whatnot), and another just to answer a profile question. I guess that's left up to the discretion of the individual. I don't entirely see what events like Pride Parades do (other than give the people at home a chance to say their nasty words as they watch the rainbows sail by their TV screen), seeing as "awareness" hasn't done much in the way of solving the issues. You're proud to be gay. Great! Some are proud to be straight, but they don't have parades about it.

Pardon the pun, but being bisexual, I think I'm on the fence about this issue. (Like I said in my original post) I don't see why there's backlash, but at the same time, maybe the backlash is a result of heterosexual people feeling uncomfortable, and feeling that there's a certain amount of unfairness. ...hmm... that being said, maybe the parades are a result of the gays feeling the same thing. Hm... this is messy.

Er, also, I just wanted to point out that furries and fetishists aren't necessarily on the same 'level' as gays, but I see what you mean. There either has to be total acceptance for everyone, or total acceptance of the fact that not everyone is going to accept everything. People that feel strongly tend to want things unanimous, I think, and that goes for both the gay community, and the homophobic community. It's unfortunate because, as long as people are pushing the way they do, from both sides, it will always be this way.

 

[Treblaine]

Wow, sorry if my hastily-constructed poll offended you so.

I'd love it if discrimination were to stop, but it's not going to. I'm not talking about changing the entire internet, I'm talking about avoiding hate speech.

If it's possibly to suspend users for merely identifying themselves as gay, it should be just as easy to suspend users to verbally abuse other users. You know what, actually giving gays a right to exist in the terms of service (as with XBL) is a PRETTY GOOD STEP to stopping this discrimination. Permitting it in spaces like that just increases the boldness and extent of the problem.

Discrimination CAN stop. Racial hatred and abuse has been reduced in two generations to extremely low levels, only a few isolated and sporadic cases exist where it is less a case of actual racism and more just trolls in desperate attention grabs using taboo words.

But the way I see it bigotry and hatred against sexual minorities is THE MOST important civil rights issue facing the United States and the entire western world today, considering just how extensive and viscous homophobic sentiment is in strata all across society.

I think I've thought it through quite sufficiently, thank you very much.

You clearly think I have a problem with the LGBT community, and I'd just like to present my ranting little rebuttal:

I am an openly bisexual guy. At least half of my friends are gay, lesbian, or bisexual. My reasons for posting this thread were due to past experience. I find it easier to go about my business online when people are unaware of my sexuality. I'm not just waffling for the sake of it, and I'm not advocating censorship. (Dear god, I have had to repeat that far too many times today)

No one is forcing you or anyone to come out in any particular field. Don't mistake my distaste for institutionalised bigotry (as XBL practised) for zeal to expose peoples' private lives.

But just because you or any number of people value their privacy doesn't mean that secrecy should be enforced on any other group.

Though I see what you are getting at, you are openly bisexual, but you see it as "practical" not to reveal that in doing business online. I presume by online business you don't just mean ebay and stuff like that but entertainment networks like an MMO, online multiplayer or a console network. Bit like how you aren't necessarily going to advertise your political affiliation at every social gathering just so that the course of conversation won't be the same argument you've had a thousand times before.

Maybe this issue has been confused by the perspective. Are you coming from the perspective of what makes for good Rules and Term-of-service for a private network? Or are you coming from the perspective of what is right as a matter of personal choice?

I can see why you may not want to identify yourself as a particular sexuality in fear that will over-ride your other characteristics you want recognised.

But I'd have to ask why bother with a poll to try and gain consensus when the issue of "out or not to out" is a highly personal one that shouldn't really be affected by what everyone else is doing but what each individual wants.

 

[SnipErlite]

It's up to them. People shouldn't say such things but they will, and everyone knows they will. So if they're prepared to deal with it by all means flaunt it. But I imagine a lot of people will keep it secret because they know how retarded much of the online community is.

 

[Acies Argentum]

After considerable thought, the simple answer I have come to is yes, people should keep their opinions and preferences to themselves if they are afraid of a negative response. I have a considerable amount of support for my argument which I will share, but I would first like to emphasize that this is my opinion, and nothing more.

In chemistry, it is rather common knowledge that you will not get a chemical reaction without inducing a change to the system you have. Whether its introducing new elements or compounds, changing the pressure or temperature, or whatever, a system will not change unless change is brought to it. There is a similar principle in physics known as the law of inertia. Now, this comes into play when you consider human behavior. A person who is not talking about sexual preferences will not likely begin talking about sexual preferences unless given stimulus to do so. If the subject isn't brought up, it won't be talked about, in either a positive or negative context.

Now, this works in two ways: if it is never talked about, it is never talked about in a negative manner. But it is also never talked about in a positive manner. So while insults won't be thrown around, there will be no social advancement either. So what we are left with is stagnation. No net change. This is undesirable. However, the answer is not to then talk more about it in hopes that this will bring about awareness and a positive social change. This is doomed to fail from the start. For as many people rallied to the cause of equality by such an act, there will be as many people put off by such an act. Either they will be less sympathetic to a certain side, or more deeply entrenched in their current side. Think about how disgusted you would be if you heard someone proudly proclaiming their hate for gays/lesbians/transgenders/whatever sort of denomination. This is exactly how that person would feel when hearing someone proudly proclaim that they are gay/lesbian/whatever. The fact of the matter is the subject of discussion is something that is largely a preference, something which can be viewed as subjective. So by proclaiming yourself to be of whatever denomination, you are provoking those who are against your denomination. And typically people just don't like having something thrown in their faces.

However, this does not mean that LGBT people should shut up about who they are. Posting your home address/phone number in a public place is bound to lead to something negative. This does not mean that what is done is justified. By no means are crimes based on gender, race, or preferences justified in any amount. However, if I were to post my bank account information in a public place on the internet, nobody would be sympathetic when all of my money disappeared. Now, if an event were to happen in or near my hometown, it would be appropriate and reasonable to bring up where I live. But sharing the details will likely end badly.

Where this all brings me to is the final point I would like to make: if you are afraid or insecure about something about yourself and feel that you should never have to face opposition of any kind, you should keep quiet about it. In fact, you should remove yourself entirely from society. Go live in a cave or something. No matter where you go, what you do, or who you are, you will find someone who hates you for it. No, racism/sexism/whateverism is neither right or justified in any situation, but it will always exist so long as human beings are genetically diverse and are exposed to differing socialization.

Sorry if I seemed to get off-topic in my support, I tend to ramble.

Tl;dr: if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen

 

[Seldon2639]

Er, also, I just wanted to point out that furries and fetishists aren't necessarily on the same 'level' as gays, but I see what you mean. There either has to be total acceptance for everyone, or total acceptance of the fact that not everyone is going to accept everything. People that feel strongly tend to want things unanimous, I think, and that goes for both the gay community, and the homophobic community. It's unfortunate because, as long as people are pushing the way they do, from both sides, it will always be this way.

It's that very statement I take issue with, though. Homosexuality is, fundamentally, simply a sexual perversion (speaking as someone who takes no quarrel with perversion). It's not a lifestyle except insofar as it has been co-opted into one. It is nothing more than being sexually attracted to a specific subset of the population. But, that's no different than if I went on and on (ad naseum) about my appreciation for redheads.

If we accept that one cannot change what he is attracted to, we must accept that it is just as "natural" (and hence defensible and inherently acceptable) to be attracted to even those perversions we find repulsive. Otherwise we're hypocritical jackasses.

 

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't talk about what particular kinks, fetishes, toys, and paraphilias (of all stripes) get my jollies off. I ask only the same respect. If you don't want to hear about what I do in the bedroom with candle wax, a spreader bar, and a gimp suit, I damn sure don't want to hear about anything you do in your bedroom.

To shed a part of your anonymity online - what do you have to lose, or to gain?

But, we're not talking about forcing people to announce their proclivities and predilections. I don't have to engage in threads about sexuality, I don't need to tell people anything I enjoy. If I happen to enjoy dressing up as a baby and getting spanked by a woman dressed like Sarah Palin, I (by god) don't need to tell people about it.

And if I do, I have to be ready for the inevitable rejection, derision, and approbation that comes with that disclosure.


You're right - no one is forcing people to display their sexual preferences. (Hence I bring up pedophilia.) However, by choosing to disclose this information to the unassuming or unprepared masses, you would then force other people to think about it. While I'd like to think people can handle it, the truth is that enough can't - to the point where they have a big problem with it.

It's along the same lines as white people saying "the N word." By saying "the N word," you've in turn unintentionally forced someone else to deconstruct exactly what that means, into what is ultimately a socially acceptable form of discrimination. (Obviously, it's not the same thing, but the sociological effect is similar.)

I quote Louis C.K. to illustrate:
<youtube=7N6Phmale_Q>

Words are just words, until some asshole makes them mean something with the intention of hurting other people. Awareness is great for the GBLT community, but making this a bigger deal than it should be isn't the right kind of awareness they likely want (or deserve.)

 

[Danglybits]

My answer is yes.

I voted "no."

There's a reason for that. My advice to homosexuals on the internet (since we're pretending you asked) is to keep it quiet unless you're ready for the consequences. This is just common sense; the world can be unfriendly sometimes, so don't invite negative attention if you're a thin-skinned sort of person.

But this thread is not about personal advice, it's more of a general policy for the community as a whole. For us to get together and declare that homosexuals should stay semi-closeted for their own good sends entirely the wrong message. As meaganmeave put it:

We shouldn't have to shut up just to avoid insults. That's akin to saying to women, "don't wear revealing clothing, or you are asking for it when a guy rapes you."

On another note, I'm going to formally request that you (OP) never, ever use the word "netizens" again. Just...no.

I agree, be prepared for people to be assholes but we shouldn't have to hide. Also, awesome werewolf icon, what's it from?

 

[Danglybits]

Backlash? I'm gay and fear no backlash because the people on the internet are not knife-wielding hoodies in front of my face: They are at a computer far away, trolling, trapped in the prison of the mind in their biased views (Thanks C. S. Lewis for the quote).

I don't think people should keep their sexuality secret online - just keep it relavent. The only time i really mention it is in polls like this. Bieng out online increases awareness of alternate sexualities, keeps society moving forward to understand things from a younger age.

The people are worry for are the Trans communities: LGB are mostly accepted but several societies knock the T off of the end. Sure Trans is about gender and not sexuality, but leaving all Trans groups outside of LGBT is going to put them in the firing line as the 'new discrimination target'. I have several Transvestite and Transgender friends, and they get a hell of a lot more stick than i do.

In short: online openness increases awareness - people should be more honest online.

Excellently said and I agree. Its kind of the difference between being "Out" and "Overt" that many people confuse. Out is about being honest about your sexuality and not hiding it. Overt means that you draw attention do it and mention it in every conversation possible and with details. I think that the concept of 'relevance' is a good on, and should be extended to many other identifying factors. Such as gender, age or what have you.

We've all had the experience of someone mentioning their gender in game chat for no reason. Most of us have also experienced or watched someone get harassed because of their gender. They are two separate issues; yes one can lead to the other but the best way to deal with a bully or a teasing sibling is to ignore them. Not to take the long way to the cafeteria.

 

[Klarinette]

If we accept that one cannot change what he is attracted to, we must accept that it is just as "natural" (and hence defensible and inherently acceptable) to be attracted to even those perversions we find repulsive. Otherwise we're hypocritical jackasses.

Oh, absolutely. There are some fetishes that I find just plain wrong, but I accept that some people are attracted to that sort of thing, and are naturally inclined to do so. That's fine. Now, if everyone could do that (not necessarily agree with it, but accept its existence), then.. we'd be alright, yes?

 

[Veret]

I'm not declaring anything. I'm just discussing the choice that some people might choose to make. I'm not ordering anyone to do anything. I'm just airing some of my views, and trying to generate discussion.

Yes, obviously you didn't mean to declare anything, and nor do the rest of us. But the thread itself sends its own message: "We, the community of the escapist forums, have put it to a vote and determined that gay people [should/should not] reveal their orientation on the internet." The poll speaks for itself, even when we don't want it to.

I agree, be prepared for people to be assholes but we shouldn't have to hide. Also, awesome werewolf icon, what's it from?

Thanks! Many years ago (pre-Underworld), on another forum, I was going by the name "Lycanthrope." I googled the word to find myself an avatar, and picked the first cool one that came up. I have no idea where it's from; the site doesn't seem to be there anymore.

That's a cool rabbit you've got, too.

 

[Sephychu]

I'm straight myself, but to me, I see sexuality as something you cannot control, nor would you want too. You have to proud of what you are. Furthermore, I think that anyone of any sexuality should be able to state it on the internet without fear of backlash, and to tell them that they should deal with the backlash seems wrong, but that's the world we live in. One of prejudice and intolerance of difference. So while I'd like to say they should put the details anywhere without fear of backlash, the backlash is going to exist for a long time.

That's respectable, but you're couching your language. If what you mean is that anyone with any enormity to their sexuality should be free to discuss it on the interwebs without backlash, I can respect and support that. But, until homosexuals/furries/everyone else who feels they're persecuted for other people not wanting to hear about their sexual exploits will support me talking about my fantasies and kinks, it's all hot air.

The difference between homosexuality and corprophilia/necrophilia/beastiality/pedophilia is acceptability by any individual. But I don't get to talk about being a sadist into necro-beastiality (enjoying beating a dead horse, natch) without everyone calling me a sick bastard, so it's not fair to force anyone to sit idly by and not respond in kind to other sexual behaviors they find disgusting.

Yet it wouldn't be wrong for you simply to want to state which gender you preferred to have sex with. I wouldn't consider Homosexuality, Bisexuality or Transgender a fetish by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[OmegaXIII]

Keep it secret? No. Keep it for relevant conversation? Yes

I share your sentiment that constantly being reminded of someone's sexuality, nomatter what it is, is very VERY annoying. However under no circumstances should anyone feel bullied into secrecy just because of 'inevitable backlash' as this is tantamount to their oppression succeeding.

I get where you're coming from, your 'Do not feed the trolls' perspective, but the trouble is that there will always be morons who pick on things different from themselves and the best way to combat them is to not be afraid of provoking them and meet any jeers with a stonewall

I don't feel that people should feel bullied into secrecy at all, but I think that keeping things relevant is paramount.

Was that "stonewall" thing a stealthy pun? If so, nicely done. *laughs*

Yes...yes it was
.>
^.^

 

[Trebort]

the internet is a generally unpleasant place and since you're free to create your own avatar i'd personally keep details to myself unless they're necessary. it's sad that people get trouble for being openly gay but we all know it'll happen, whether you let yourself in for trouble is your choice. it's like the areas of town you Don't Go To. there shouldn't be anywhere you're afraid of going but there is an element of self preservation in this kind of thing.

I've never been scared to go anywhere because of my sexuality. I also never get grief for being bisexual, I don't hide it, but I don't force it down other peoples throats either.

I have a pretty wonderful life. I'm not discriminated against in any way, I'm free to live my life how I want. I'm free to sleep with who I want, how I want, using whatever toys and accessories I want.

Everyone gets stick online, I don't get why people take it seriously.

If people give me grief online, I actually enjoy it a little. I like a good argument anyway, but online it's just so silly the things people are willing to say when they are shielded by a computer screen. I love the internet.

Also, I don't know what bloody option to pick in the poll, it seems silly.

 

[bobknowsall]

Yes, obviously you didn't mean to declare anything, and nor do the rest of us. But the thread itself sends its own message: "We, the community of the escapist forums, have put it to a vote and determined that gay people [should/should not] reveal their orientation on the internet." The poll speaks for itself, even when we don't want it to.

Well, if the poll is the only thing people are paying attention to, then something is wrong here. I'm the one who made the poll, yes, but people don't have to vote if they disagree with the supposed agenda behind it.

The poll was an afterthought, so it shouldn't be taken quite as seriously as the rest of my OP.

 

[bobknowsall]

No. There is a huge difference between stating your sexual preference and hurling insults. If someone states they are gay, they aren't doing so to inflict harm on others. If someone comes back with an ugly insult about gay people, they are purposefully trying to hurt another person.

We shouldn't have to shut up just to avoid insults. That's akin to saying to women, "don't wear revealing clothing, or you are asking for it when a guy rapes you."

Sorry, but I call bullshit.

I couldn't agree more. This had me thinking the whole time that is sounded familiar. Then you reminded me why. So, OP, do you think that women shouldn't wear revealing clothing, or they are asking for it when a guy rapes, as that's what you sound like.

My views on discrimination and rape differ considerably, and the two are very different subjects. I'd rather if you didn't try to make comparisons between the two.

 

[bobknowsall]

Duly noted. Though I still contend that you wouldn't have posted this thread about racism. The fact that people don't take discrimination against homosexuals as seriously as racism sits very badly with me.

Oh, you'll find no disagreement there. I wouldn't have posted a thread about racism here, and discrimination against gays should also be taken seriously. It saddens me that people can still get away with it.

Anyway, unless anyone has any questions I'm off to watch a film, have a lovely night - Bob you argue your point well, I salute a good debater even if I'm not going to agree with you

Well, I salute you for debating in a reasoned and intelligent manner. I'd gotten used to foaming-at-the-mouth diatribes elsewhere on the web, and it was refreshing to have a proper debate again.

 

[bobknowsall]

Sorry, I don't buy that. I think these people who don't back down just end up exposing how bigoted, stupid, and in many cases closeted they are when they blow up on these subjects. And I think we should know who these people are. You can't just let people stew in their prejudices, you have to expose them for how pants they are.

It's like what HL Menken said:

"The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous. Is it, perchance, cherished by persons who should know better? Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame.
"True enough, even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred."

He wrote this in relation to the Scopes trial but I think it applies to homophobes as well; even those who don't use religion as an excuse for their bigotry. But I think gay people should be as open as they feel comfortable being (especially on line where there's no threat of violence) so they can expose these superstitious bigots because only then can they be made to feel ashamed.

I agree that superstition and bigotry must be exposed and confronted, but some people are unable to take on such a task. And I'm saying that they're the people who should be keeping quiet to avoid attention, not the rest of us. I did not say that bigotry should be allowed or condoned, only that it might be unwise to draw the attention of the bigots if you don't wish to confront them.

Because, alas, bigotry on the internet will not be stamped out anytime soon, and it's nigh-impossible to shame someone over the internet. If someone acts like a homophobic twat IRL, though, by all means call them out.

 

[bobknowsall]

Wow, sorry if my hastily-constructed poll offended you so.

I'd love it if discrimination were to stop, but it's not going to. I'm not talking about changing the entire internet, I'm talking about avoiding hate speech.

If it's possibly to suspend users for merely identifying themselves as gay, it should be just as easy to suspend users to verbally abuse other users. You know what, actually giving gays a right to exist in the terms of service (as with XBL) is a PRETTY GOOD STEP to stopping this discrimination. Permitting it in spaces like that just increases the boldness and extent of the problem.

Discrimination CAN stop. Racial hatred and abuse has been reduced in two generations to extremely low levels, only a few isolated and sporadic cases exist where it is less a case of actual racism and more just trolls in desperate attention grabs using taboo words.

But the way I see it bigotry and hatred against sexual minorities is THE MOST important civil rights issue facing the United States and the entire western world today, considering just how extensive and viscous homophobic sentiment is in strata all across society.

Oh, I totally disagree with banning openly gay people from online forums and game servers, just so you know.

And I agree with you; Discrimination should stop, but perhaps the internet is not the best arena to fight it. It is a real issue, and I would love to see it resolved in a similar manner to racial hatred. It wouldn't be totally eliminated, but spewing slurs would get you funny looks as opposed to raucous approval.

I think I've thought it through quite sufficiently, thank you very much.

You clearly think I have a problem with the LGBT community, and I'd just like to present my ranting little rebuttal:

I am an openly bisexual guy. At least half of my friends are gay, lesbian, or bisexual. My reasons for posting this thread were due to past experience. I find it easier to go about my business online when people are unaware of my sexuality. I'm not just waffling for the sake of it, and I'm not advocating censorship. (Dear god, I have had to repeat that far too many times today)

No one is forcing you or anyone to come out in any particular field. Don't mistake my distaste for institutionalised bigotry (as XBL practised) for zeal to expose peoples' private lives.

But just because you or any number of people value their privacy doesn't mean that secrecy should be enforced on any other group.

Though I see what you are getting at, you are openly bisexual, but you see it as "practical" not to reveal that in doing business online. I presume by online business you don't just mean ebay and stuff like that but entertainment networks like an MMO, online multiplayer or a console network. Bit like how you aren't necessarily going to advertise your political affiliation at every social gathering just so that the course of conversation won't be the same argument you've had a thousand times before.

Maybe this issue has been confused by the perspective. Are you coming from the perspective of what makes for good Rules and Term-of-service for a private network? Or are you coming from the perspective of what is right as a matter of personal choice?

I can see why you may not want to identify yourself as a particular sexuality in fear that will over-ride your other characteristics you want recognised.

But I'd have to ask why bother with a poll to try and gain consensus when the issue of "out or not to out" is a highly personal one that shouldn't really be affected by what everyone else is doing but what each individual wants.

I was coming at it from the latter perspective. I don't believe in forcing my own habits on others, I was just curious as to what other Escapist users might think.

Yeah, I'd rather not be defined by my sexuality, because it doesn't really say anything about me. I'd prefer to be judged by my actions.

The poll was an afterthought, and clearly a rather poor one. I would probably have been better off just leaving it out entirely.

 

[GonzoGamer]

Sorry, I don't buy that. I think these people who don't back down just end up exposing how bigoted, stupid, and in many cases closeted they are when they blow up on these subjects. And I think we should know who these people are. You can't just let people stew in their prejudices, you have to expose them for how pants they are.

It's like what HL Menken said:

"The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous. Is it, perchance, cherished by persons who should know better? Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame.
"True enough, even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred."

He wrote this in relation to the Scopes trial but I think it applies to homophobes as well; even those who don't use religion as an excuse for their bigotry. But I think gay people should be as open as they feel comfortable being (especially on line where there's no threat of violence) so they can expose these superstitious bigots because only then can they be made to feel ashamed.

I agree that superstition and bigotry must be exposed and confronted, but some people are unable to take on such a task. And I'm saying that they're the people who should be keeping quiet to avoid attention, not the rest of us. I did not say that bigotry should be allowed or condoned, only that it might be unwise to draw the attention of the bigots if you don't wish to confront them.

Because, alas, bigotry on the internet will not be stamped out anytime soon, and it's nigh-impossible to shame someone over the internet. If someone acts like a homophobic twat IRL, though, by all means call them out.

I didn't mean to imply that you condone it. It's just that I live in NYC and I didn't realize that there were gays out there who DON'T want to confront bigots. I'm not even gay and I want to confront them.
If there are gays who don't want to ever get married and want to stay out of whatever rights battle and be left alone, I could totally understand that. Indignant people with common sense like you and me probably take up that slack anyway.