Poll: NYTimes covers sexual harassment in the gamer community

[Aeonknight]

Don't even bring PC elitism into this.

The mute button is just as effective as a ban option (which can be as easily abused as a mic option.)

And even if you ban them, it doesn't mean they just stopped existing. Your preferred platform is in this with the rest of "us".

What elitism? Dedicated servers aren't PC exclusive technology, they're just not the norm on consoles since the suits are convinced they'll stand in the way of accessibility and God forbid that happens.

But they are more effective, there is a big difference between some player you don't give a toss about muting you and having to buy a new CD Key to access the server you're on or any other server ever again, never mind losing all your progress.

Each of the 4 online-centric games I have on my PC right now has dedicated paid or voluntary staff moderating it and I know that if I went in and started spouting a bunch of sexist or racist shit, I'd pay for it with my account. As far as I understand, it's not at all like that on consoles.

Enough complaints does cost you your account even on consoles. And instead of just a new CD key, you generally need a new credit card #. And in the case of underaged gamers, Mommy's not gonna wanna get a new card and mess up all her transactions/auto billing cause the boy likes to call people the N word.

But that's besides the point. How effective your tools to punish offenders is a moot point, because regardless of your so called more efficient methods, that doesn't stop them from coming back or deter them in the first place.

As far as dealing with the offenders? Whether it's a Mute button or a ban stick, both restrict contact that you have with them. To call it a strictly "console problem" is a paper thin excuse of trying to seperate your PC community from that of the stereotypical raging 360 12 year old. Your/our PC master race is no better than them/us. Both have their bad apples.

 

[O maestre]

some of the comments on the articles own page were bewildering. its one thing being conservative and trying to protect the right? or privilege of being a bigot online, but some people seem incapable to understand that a group of people have had enough and are only trying to stand up for themselves.

i do not agree with all the feminist positions but i applaud their will to defend themselves(i know feminist is not the proper moniker, but for the sake of understanding i will use it)

yes the culture has been bigoted for a long time, but seriously gamers coming out of the "basement dwelling misanthropy" shtick and changing to something else, something more respectful is a good thing. why should playing games be an unpleasant experience, in fact i believe that is an oxymoron.

perhaps if gaming becomes more inclusive and gathers more customers, there will be more people and more coverage to demand changes to the industries current business practices

the article itself was well written and was most importantly respectful.

 

[RESURRECTION21]

That's not a gaming problem, it's a console problem.

Any real PC game has basic in-game moderation tools, and server/mod/game communities don't have any qualms about permanently banning disruptive players. It's different in a matchmaking environment where players are all end-users and it's up to the developer, publisher or Microsoft to reprimand their own clients. wow just had to go and make this in to a fanboy thing huh? i am soooo tired of this oh well

 

[Sean Steele]

I think were at a point right now here gaming culture needs to point to guys like this and firmly say "They don't represent us." Also I think were at the point where we can't take every question of something that happened amongst us with the same. "Its the old media attacking the new media." Witch hunt mentality that yes, sometimes was and sometimes in the future will be justified, but rather each outside critique on its merits, the sexual harassment, sexism, racism, homophobia, and other forms of bigotry need to be driven out, probably with pitchforks and torches.

 

[Ryotknife]

-Snip-

I played with a lot of women back in my WoW days. Some of them were really good.

How is one good at WoW? Lot's of skill in the auto attacks I guess.

what if your class doesnt use auto attack?

On topic, I notice sexism more when I play FPS games on the 360 than on any PC title. Although, the 360 community are such general A holes to every living thing that even I do not use a mic and im a guy.

It seems the issue is less "sexism in gaming community" and more "sexism in the 360 community"

 

[RaikuFA]

That's not a gaming problem, it's a console problem.

Any real PC game has basic in-game moderation tools, and server/mod/game communities don't have any qualms about permanently banning disruptive players. It's different in a matchmaking environment where players are all end-users and it's up to the developer, publisher or Microsoft to reprimand their own clients.

Don't even bring PC elitism into this.

The mute button is just as effective as a ban option (which can be as easily abused as a mic option.)

And even if you ban them, it doesn't mean they just stopped existing. Your preferred platform is in this with the rest of "us".

Not just that but PC elitism IS an issue. If someone's having issues with using something it leads from personal attacks from PC gamers.

 

[Nemu]

?The gaming industry is actually in the process of changing,? Ms. Sarkeesian said. ?That?s a really positive thing, but I think there is a small group of male gamers who feel like gaming belongs to them, and are really terrified of that change happening.?

This made me laugh out loud for real. I'm a 30+ year old female who has been gaming (continuously) since the Atari 2600 was released. I'd kick the ever-living crap out of some kid who thinks that gaming "belongs" to him.

 

[Treblaine]

I am in favour of grassroots change, things have to work at the business end, right in the servers.

PC gaming I've found to be quite clean from admins policing on a one-to-one basis, their server, their responsibility. Much like how this website has effective moderation.

Microsoft's problem is their top-down control can never get the right balance between stopping abusers and not over-reacting and banning people for harmless banter.

Console could learn from the PC privately run server model with accountable admins and moderated community and forums. This is going to come from the bottom up but the responsibility of the big companies is to allow and encourage this.

 

[Brendan Stepladder]

Bravo New York Times, I've had so much experience with Fox News that I automatically cringed when I heard that a major media outlet was covering issues in gaming. They covered the issue accurately and adeptly. Hopefully media coverage like this will stem the tide of the misogynistic trend.

 

[Noetherian]

The "non-action" has achieved great things in the past. I think that simply not giving people a reason to harass will make people give up.

What would that look like here, though? Simply not using your mic if you're female or have an accent turns mic use into a privilege reserved for the sources of harassment. That places too much of the onus on the victims and sends the wrong message about who is and isn't allowed to have full enjoyment of the game. If I'm missing your point, please expound, but I don't think that particular argument should be applied here. (If nothing else, it seems to describe the methods already in use by a large number of female players-- methods which have failed to bring about the desired change.)

I can't claim to know much about the organization of Microsoft's monitoring team (or XBox Live servers), but I wonder if it could benefit from trying to divide labor by server the way some of the thread's PC enthusiasts have mentioned. Do they have a team of "local" or regional mods who are personally responsible for e.g. a certain group of usernames? It seems like that might be worth trying.

Also, on the subject of exactly whose laundry this is-- of course we as gamers (and escapists in particular, at least in my experience) are by and large not the people who treat our fellow gamers this way. We know the bad examples don't represent us, but unfortunately the world at large doesn't see it that way. When something like this happens in the gaming space, that ends up being the primary way it's explained, and so it ends up tied to the thing we like. In time, this will change, but if we want that change to come sooner than later we need to make it our problem, too, and keep working to improve things.

Finally:

The Cat from Outer Space

*high five* for recognizing my favorite obscure childhood movie.

 

[RaikuFA]

The "non-action" has achieved great things in the past. I think that simply not giving people a reason to harass will make people give up.

What would that look like here, though? Simply not using your mic if you're female or have an accent turns mic use into a privilege reserved for the sources of harassment. That places too much of the onus on the victims and sends the wrong message about who is and isn't allowed to have full enjoyment of the game. If I'm missing your point, please expound, but I don't think that particular argument should be applied here. (If nothing else, it seems to describe the methods already in use by a large number of female players-- methods which have failed to bring about the desired change.)

I can't claim to know much about the organization of Microsoft's monitoring team (or XBox Live servers), but I wonder if it could benefit from trying to divide labor by server the way some of the thread's PC enthusiasts have mentioned. Do they have a team of "local" or regional mods who are personally responsible for e.g. a certain group of usernames? It seems like that might be worth trying.

Also, on the subject of exactly whose laundry this is-- of course we as gamers (and escapists in particular, at least in my experience) are by and large not the people who treat our fellow gamers this way. We know the bad examples don't represent us, but unfortunately the world at large doesn't see it that way. When something like this happens in the gaming space, that ends up being the primary way it's explained, and so it ends up tied to the thing we like. In time, this will change, but if we want that change to come sooner than later we need to make it our problem, too, and keep working to improve things.

Finally:

The Cat from Outer Space

*high five* for recognizing my favorite obscure childhood movie.

I got harassment all the time when I tried out fighting games and I have no accent and am a male.

 

[ElPatron]

What would that look like here, though? Simply not using your mic if you're female or have an accent turns mic use into a privilege reserved for the sources of harassment.

I assume you have never heard of "wu wei".
"The hard and strong will fall. The soft and weak will overcome."? Tao Te Ching, by Lao Tzu?

So your argument is when black people used "non-action" in Alabama they stopped identifying themselves as blacks/turned white? No. That is not the principle of "non-action".

They simply crippled the local economy by doing nothing. The police had batons and guns, but the protestants did not want confrontation.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

What would that look like here, though? Simply not using your mic if you're female or have an accent turns mic use into a privilege reserved for the sources of harassment.

I assume you have never heard of "wu wei".
"The hard and strong will fall. The soft and weak will overcome."? Tao Te Ching, by Lao Tzu?

So your argument is when black people used "non-action" in Alabama they stopped identifying themselves as blacks/turned white? No. That is not the principle of "non-action".

They simply crippled the local economy by doing nothing. The police had batons and guns, but the protestants did not want confrontation.

I'm just curious, have you ever been harassed while playing a game?

Back when I was younger I used to have my mic plugged in quite often when playing FPS games, but the last seven years or so I haven't bothered unless I play with friends. I, just like most other gamers, just want to sit down and have some fun when I boot up a game. I do not find it fun to get "Show ur boobs"/"make me a sammich"/"girls cant play" etc. comments just for using my microphone to co-operate with my team.

Non-action assumes I will put up with this until these guys grow tired of mocking me, but frankly I can't see why I have to put up with it in the first place. Because one their sex cromosomes differs from mine? Because I do not belong to the majority of gamers due to circumstances during my inception that I had no control over? When I spend my work days taking shit from people (mentally ill people, but still), the last thing I need is to take shit from people while doing my hobby.

No, I don't think silent protesting is the way to go about this. The bigots that prowl on Xbox Live and various internet games needs to be dragged out into the sunlight. The only way to make them stop is to show them their behaviour is unacceptable.

 

[ElPatron]

I'm just curious, have you ever been harassed while playing a game?

Is that ever a serious question? Does the sun shine? Does my father have kids?

Non-action assumes I will put up with this until these guys grow tired of mocking me, but frankly I can't see why I have to put up with it in the first place. Because one their sex cromosomes differs from mine? Because I do not belong to the majority of gamers due to circumstances during my inception that I had no control over?

1. You're trying to cooperate with assholes. That's your problem right there.

2. Being a girl is not an argument.

3. You don't have to put up with anything if you mute people.

No, I don't think silent protesting is the way to go about this. The bigots that prowl on Xbox Live and various internet games needs to be dragged out into the sunlight.The only way to make them stop is to show them their behaviour is unacceptable.

They want confrontation. They know their behavior is incorrect, that is exactly what they are trying to achieve! You'd not be teaching them anything.

If there is no "reward" for being an asshole, people won't do it.

I think it's naive to think they are doing it because they think it's okay. They are not bigots, they are simply people with a crowd and a free-pass to say everything without real-world repercussions.

 

[Aeonknight]

I am in favour of grassroots change, things have to work at the business end, right in the servers.

PC gaming I've found to be quite clean from admins policing on a one-to-one basis, their server, their responsibility. Much like how this website has effective moderation.

Microsoft's problem is their top-down control can never get the right balance between stopping abusers and not over-reacting and banning people for harmless banter.

Console could learn from the PC privately run server model with accountable admins and moderated community and forums. This is going to come from the bottom up but the responsibility of the big companies is to allow and encourage this.

This shit again?

Tell me something, what exactly is the difference between a quick mute/block function and a boot off the server from the harassed individual's point of view? Not a whole lot.

A mute option can be implemented at whim. And you may play on servers with admins who give a shit, but that is hardly the majority. There are just as many if not more servers with little to no work done by the admins to keep it clean. And that's not even accounting for the servers where the admin is the one doing the harassing.

But by all means keep pretending the PC community is any more mature than the console community.

 

[RaikuFA]

I am in favour of grassroots change, things have to work at the business end, right in the servers.

PC gaming I've found to be quite clean from admins policing on a one-to-one basis, their server, their responsibility. Much like how this website has effective moderation.

Microsoft's problem is their top-down control can never get the right balance between stopping abusers and not over-reacting and banning people for harmless banter.

Console could learn from the PC privately run server model with accountable admins and moderated community and forums. This is going to come from the bottom up but the responsibility of the big companies is to allow and encourage this.

This shit again?

Tell me something, what exactly is the difference between a quick mute/block function and a boot off the server from the harassed individual's point of view? Not a whole lot.

A mute option can be implemented at whim. And you may play on servers with admins who give a shit, but that is hardly the majority. There are just as many if not more servers with little to no work done by the admins to keep it clean. And that's not even accounting for the servers where the admin is the one doing the harassing.

But by all means keep pretending the PC community is any more mature than the console community.

I even said it before: Getting PC help is just as bad as 12 year olds playing CoD on XBL.