Poll: Obesity: fat people or true illness?

[Inverse Skies]

Your reference is hardly valid. It's your poor interpretation of a definition of disease. Hardly solid evidence showing obesity to be a disease.
Simply put, you would fail if you handed that in as the focus of discussion for a report. So good luck studying, looks like you will need it.

Hmmm... pulling a reference straight from a textbook (and I even provided a reference source for said textbook) is my poor interpretation of a disease. Fantastic logic that one.

Am I really going to write a discussion essay on the Escapist? Nope. I have enough to do already with my study time than cater to trollers such as yourself. I've provided referenced sources and you haven't and now you're upset because you've lost.

I wouldn't bother replying to this as I've noticed from your previous trolling against Jemborg, Aardvark and Cheeze_Pavillion that arguing with you is similar to smacking your head repeatedly against a brick wall. Only not as enjoyable.

 

[Inverse Skies]

"A disease is an abnormal condition of an organism that impairs bodily functions. It is also defined as a way of the body harming its self in an abnormal way, associated with specific symptoms and signs"

dictionary .. it's all i could find hahaha ... fat isn't an organism and obeseity is to be expected when eating habits mess up .. the body isn't abnormally damaging itself ... just a ton of arteries blocked up due to what the user is stuffing himself with

and again ... that stuff you posted may be true but like i said i have no trust/love for doctors ^^'

Lol. That trust for doctors issue, hard to get around that one.

Ummm... the dictionary is referring to the organism itself not a virus, bacteria, fungi, helminth or protozoa which all can cause infection. Otherwise, going by your interpretation, cancer is not a disease because it isn't an organism.

And the body is abnormally damaging itself because adipose tissue (fat cells) actually release hormones which are detrimental to the body, and when there are more of them such as the case in an obese individual these levels of harmful hormones rise, causing problems such as hypertension, atherosclerosis, renal failure and hyperglycemia. There are also increased levels of hormones such as cortisol and epinephrine in obese individuals, both stress hormones, which abnormally long exposure to will damage the body because of the increased stress it is under.

You've also shown you have no idea how atherosclerosis works, because they body IS damaging itself. Circulating leukocytes (white blood cells) take up oxidised LDL (Low Density Lipoprotein, which contains cholsterol and is abundant in a diet full of saturated fats) and this damages them, causing them to die on artery walls and release cytokines (signalling molecules). The cytokines damage the wall of the artery, and also attract more leukocytes to the area which become damaged by taking up LDL and which eventually forms a mass which fibrous tissue is deposited over, forming a sclerotic (sclerosis means to harden) plaque which occludes the artery.

But as I said before, you find it hard to trust doctors. But please, as least accept the fact obesity is a disease.

 

[shannon.archer]

If you regard our genetic make up as a disease then you might as well consider that not being able to survive the plummet off the empire state building as a genetic flaw/disease. The theory of natural selection is true and so is evolution however our genetics do not adapt that easily therefore it is our lifestyle that must stay the same.

 

[shannon.archer]

If you regard our genetic make up as a disease then you might as well consider that not being able to survive the plummet off the empire state building as a genetic flaw/disease. The theory of natural selection is true and so is evolution however our genetics do not adapt that easily therefore it is our lifestyle that must stay the same as our ancestors to a varying degree. People who are fat have no excuse for it other then they find it easier to stay fat then lose wieght. And those who winge about being bullied and not belonging to society is because they shouldnt. Why should somebody who is overall endangering the human race through the over consumption of resources along with the mutation that they are doing to their own genes by maintaining that lifestyle be sympathised for. I am sure that when we look to the future and see everyone as over wieght will we regard obesity as a disease? Or will we look back and think geez that was the most awful decline in humanity since the dark ages. Fat people deserve to be prejudiced against as without criticism how will they ever motivate themselves to change? My hope is they become sterile before they get a chance to have children who are bound to share the same misguided qualities as there parents

 

[shannon.archer]

Yes.

One word answers. Point proven you have the incapacity to discuss this rationally like an adult, and simply disgree without reason to anyone that disagrees to your views.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm refusing to engage in a discussion of that topic with you in the first place. Why can't you understand that?

Obesity is not a disease.
I use the gun example again.
Put a gun to an autistic kids head, tell him to stop being autistic, he can't.
Put it to an obese persons head, tell them to stop being obese, they can.
The latter example only works for people with addictions, not diseases.

Put a gun to the head of a person with anemia caused by malnutrition, they can stop.
Put a gun to the head of a person with diabetes that can be controlled by insulin, they can stop.

Are you saying anemia and diabetes are not diseases?

Yes but via stopping obese people are not subject to death are they?

 

[Inverse Skies]

Dude your reference is a quote open to interpretation as it does not specify wht counts as what, which I showed in a previous reply & you ignored it.
Surely you can see that, and using that quote you could argue how obesity is not a disease as it does not fulfill those criteria laid out....
I'm not a troll for pointing out how your reference is vague.
I'm not a troll for answering a persons question.
You think I'm a troll because I disagree with you. Until you show how my point is invalid, I'm not a troll. And when you do show it is wrong, I will change my viewpoint as there is no point in remaing wrong once shown otherwise.

Fine. Seeing as you've shown yourself incapable of putting two and two together, lets show you how you're wrong.

Disease can be defined as any abnormality or failure of the body to function properly and this may require medical treatment (Figure 1.1). The scientific study of diseases is called pathology. Every disease has a distict set of features that include a cause, associated clinical symptoms and a chracteristic progression, with associated morphological and functional changes in the patient.

From- Ahmed, N, Dawson, M, Smith, C & Wood, E, 2007. 'Biology of Disease', Taylor & Francis Group, New York, USA.

Lets see, the causes of obesity could be anyone of the following,

The number of obese adults in the United States is 75% higher than it was 15 years ago. And much of the world is following the same trend, recently leading the World Health Organisation to coin the new word globesity to describe the worldwide situation.
... The causes of obesity are many, and some remain obscure. Some factors that may be involved are the following:
-Disturbances in the leptin signalling pathway
-Lack of exercise
-Differences in the 'fidget factor'
-Differences in extracting energy from food
-Hereditary tendencies
-Development of an excessive number of fat cells as a result from overeating
-The existence of certain endocrine disorders such as hypothyroidism
-An abundance of convenient, highly palatable, energy-dense relatively inexpensive foods
-Emotional disturbances in which overeating replaces other gratifications
-A possible virus link.

From - Sherwood, L, 2007. 'Human Physiology - From Cells to Systems 6th Ed', Thomson Brooks/Cole, USA.

Now, stay with me here, because obesity is an EXCESS of fat in the body, which is not a normal state for the body to be in, it is a disease state.
Clinical signs and symptoms include a body shape typically recognisable when a person is 20% above their IBW, as well as a BMI above 30.
Characteristic progression refers to the dividing of adipose cells to accumulate more fat as well as the chracteristic other diseases which can be caused by obesity (hypertension, atherosclerosis, syndrome X, obstructive sleep apnoea, hyperlipidemia, stroke, type two diabetes mellitus, heart failure etc).
And morphological and functional changes - if you can't figure out the morphological ones you must be very thick, functional includes hypertension, raised levels of cortisol and epinephrine, impaired leptin signalling pathways, hyperglycemia, hyperlipidemia and development of atherosclerotic plaques which occlude arteries.

By your very poor interpretation of a disease a disease such as Systemic Lupus Erythematosus fails to meet the criteria because of the fact that SLE is extremely variable in its manifestations which can include,

Fever, depression, photosensetivity, butterfly rash, vasculitis, purpura, urticaria, pleurisy/effusion, restrictive lung defect, Raynaud's Phenomenon, aseptic necrosis of the hip, arthritis in small joints, fits, heriplegia, ataxia, polyneuropathy, cranial nerve lesions, psychosis, demylinating syndrome, pericarditis, endocarditis, aortic valve lesions, abdominal pain, glomerulonephritis, myopathy, anaemia, leucopenia and thrombocytopenia.

Any COMBINATION of which can affect a patient with this auto-immune disease, there is no characteristic pattern. The disease is also sporadic in it's progression, with long periods of remission and active disease which are impossible to predict.

So by your logic, this serious disease is not one because it doesn't meet your 'criteria'.

As I've said before, grow up. You've lost this debate simply because the consensus of the medical community is that obesity is a disease as it fits the criteria. You can't prove me otherwise as your viewpoint is simply opinion and not fact.

You lose.

 

[Inverse Skies]

-snip-
You lose.

The fact you blatantly are biased in this argument doesn't help your cause.
I'll get back to you on it, I'll ask a friend whose in Cambridge doing medicine, he'll be able to clarify things from a non-biased point.

Please check with your Cambridge friend. I'm sure you'll have a delightful insight.