Poll: PC Gaming, what type of mouse?
- Thread starter Treblaine
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gamepad. ...psyche!
No, srsly, gamepad. I hate aiming with a mouse, its horrible. Trackball can be pretty fun too.
No, srsly, gamepad. I hate aiming with a mouse, its horrible. Trackball can be pretty fun too.
Sounds like the normal sort of function to change weapons. I think that separate keys mapped to punch and grenade would be better.Treblaine said:
I get by OK with a (wireless) 3-button mouse. I would really love one of those beastly mice with 5 extra buttons not just for making certain functions in-game act slightly quicker and also as hotkeys for functions out of a game as well, such as on the internet, or whatever.
I use a bog standard wired mouse with the standard 2 buttons, mouse wheel (that clicks down for M3) and two extra buttons. That said, the extra buttons are most often used for browsing. Cheap, too.
Optical is the way to go. I switched to a ball mouse a few months ago after my optical one sort of died and by God was the difference huge.
It's not that they "get in he way" just that they are slightly too awkward to use in a fast paced shooter and that will get you killed.Denamic said:
The problem with mounting knife-melee (CoD4 type) to M4 is that button can only be pressed with the thumb, but the thumb isn't over it, the thumb is clasping the mouse against the ring finger. So in a sudden confrontation you can't just twitch your middle finger to melee... you have to MOVE your thumb, then FEEL for the button, then press it at just the right moment.
In my experience that utterly kills your accuracy and responsiveness.
That may seem insignificant but when you are running at each other in full sprint, milliseconds count. Moving your thumb to find M4 takes a moment, and in that moment you cannot move the mouse, your aim is locked.
I played CoD4 for years with melee mounted to M4 and I never survived head-to-head knife confrontations, but recently I switched to M2 being melee (Shift as ADS) and I've been kicking ass ever since. It has utterly changed my game, I am getting more knife kills than ever before and I only lose head-to-head knife confrontations against really good players who know how to sprint past me (out of my field of vision almost as if they didn't notice me) then spin around and knife me.
So what can you mount to M4 or M5 button that wouldn't do just as well on the keyboard?
Really these extra mouse buttons seems to be a problem as to use them you have to compromise so much control of the mouse it doesn't seem to be worth it. Mainly with M4/M5 buttons that can only be pressed by the thumb, you practically have to stop aiming with the mouse to use them.
Well I'm talking COD4 style melee, so the one-hit-kill with a knife stab type. So you definitely want to hit first.More Fun To Compute said:
My problem with mapping those functions to different buttons is you only have so many fingers:
Left hand:
-Ring, Index & Middle finger moving with WASD
-Thumb jumping with SPACE
-Pinkie not good at rapid fire.
Right hand:
-index shooting with M1
-thumb + ring finger holding mouse
-pinkie supporting mouse hand on table
So that leaves just the Right middle finger.
I think something like weapon alternate-attack should be a toggle as melee would be for when you are expecting close combat, switching to grenade launcher is I think ideal as it allows the player to remain responsive, able to shoot bullets (against lone targets) and grenades (against groups). Also, something like an under-barrel grenade-launcher should need a second to ready to fire (at the cost of being ready to melee) yet you should retain the ability to shoot the main weapon it is attached to.
How does that sound?
Formerly Razer Deathadder, 5 buttons, which I absolutely loved but sadly the wiring is now bricked and it's beyond usable.
Now using the MX518, again, 5 buttons not including the DPI control and the Alt/Tab button and I'm loving this one too.
I've got my fourth and fifth buttons bound to knife and grenade respectively, I don't use mouse 3 for anything, I find it's always been far too much of an irritation to use.
Maybe M4 and M5 just aren't for some people, frankly I can't play without them.
Now using the MX518, again, 5 buttons not including the DPI control and the Alt/Tab button and I'm loving this one too.
I've got my fourth and fifth buttons bound to knife and grenade respectively, I don't use mouse 3 for anything, I find it's always been far too much of an irritation to use.
Honestly I can't say I've ever had this problem, I have knife bound to M4 and maybe it's just my grip, but I find my thumb resting on it, or close enough to it to be able to tap it without sacrificing my aim and I've maybe lost 2 or 3 head to head knife confrontations.Treblaine said:
Maybe M4 and M5 just aren't for some people, frankly I can't play without them.
I use a stock mouse that came with my last desktop, a Dell two-button plus clickable scroll wheel optical mouse. It's got a few very well-worn spots on it and I won't game with anything else until this thing dies because it's just that comfortable in my hand after using it for over four years.
Well you may be just very good. I should mention I got this idea to switch melee from M4 to M2 after playing lots of Left 4 Dead 1 + 2 where you spend a LOT of time right-clicking-melee to knock back the undead.Master Kuja said:
I have the same mouse and I put my thumb right deep into the thumb-hollow... and when some 14th prestige golden-gun user is running at you that gap seems like a chasm. I can never reach it in time, or if I do I miss wildly.
But I'd going good with my current setup, it also means I can easily move between CoD and L4D with minimum adjustment time.
Some COD players are ridiculously good, you have to be so fast to not die. One thing I'm trying to master is the "lunge distance". I've experimented in private matches with a willing test dummy, the lunge distance is HUGE but if you come short you won't lunge at all and just futilely swipe at the air... with another agonising second before you can melee again.
You can't strafe when hitting keys with your left index but it's easier than juggling the mouse. I suppose you could do something like map both q+e to knife and |+c to grenade then use either finger if you really need to strafe while doing these. It's also easy to press and hold left ctrl and shift with the pinkie but hammering it isn't good. Both could be used as a modifier to change the function of a face mouse button.Treblaine said:
Toggles mean modes and modes are crap UI in general. Not just my opinion, but researched fact. There is usually little reason to use them. Use quasimodes (= hold down) instead, and if there is a transition between modes (like pushing gun forwards to go into ADS) don't let that block any other actions (like firing) which would not logically be blocked by it, not even for an instant.Treblaine said:
The other problem with that example is that you have assigned a default command to Caps Lock. A lot of folks I know have long since remapped their Caps Locks to something more useful. One of my keyboards doesn't have a Caps Lock to begin with.
At least until stereoscopic 3D is standard and works very well, I regard the "click to stab" mechanic defective, because it hinges on very accurate time-and-distance tracking that just doesn't exist on a first person view through a 2D screen with inaccurate movement control. It is a fun kind of challenge IRL - I do fencing - but I believe close combat in a FPS should mostly occur automatically. There are some games where melee has been integrated decently in different ways, for instance Action Quake 2 and Aliens vs Predator (1999).
Lean:
In a lean-enabled FPS I use Q to lean right and E to lean left. In practice you always want to lean in the direction you are moving, and doing the buttons the "right way" prevents that because the same finger would have to press both.
As for the mouse, I have one of the best mice on the market when it comes to the accessibility and quality of M4 and M5 buttons (Razer Lachesis). Nevertheless, I never use anything but M1 and M2 because just like you, I feel doing so affects my aiming speed and control - not even when I made a foray in a MMO and sorely needed more buttons, having already used all conceivable combos including Ctrl+G for spells.
M1, M2, scroll wheel (M3, and M7 and M8 by pushing wheel to each side), and M4-6 on left side. Also, 2 additional buttons next to M1 to change sentsitivity on the fly, and button below scroll wheel to toggle free-spin. Kind of overkill, but at least it's not the Naga.
I didn't vote after i did read the first post.
I think that a game should not expect more than a plain 3-button mouse. If your standard controls need more buttons, then you're either doing something wrong, or you are designing a highly unusual game (cannot think of any where this is necessary, but i don't exclude this possibility).
That doesn't mean that you shouldn't make use of additional buttons - just that the "base"-mappings do not require it. Build everything for 3 mousebuttons - and then let players map extra buttons and wheel themselves.
I think that a game should not expect more than a plain 3-button mouse. If your standard controls need more buttons, then you're either doing something wrong, or you are designing a highly unusual game (cannot think of any where this is necessary, but i don't exclude this possibility).
That doesn't mean that you shouldn't make use of additional buttons - just that the "base"-mappings do not require it. Build everything for 3 mousebuttons - and then let players map extra buttons and wheel themselves.
