Poll: Philosophy: Important or a Waste of Time?

[Atticus89]

My philosophy professor explained it best: philosophy is the grandmother of the sciences. It was thinking and observing the world in such a way that some thoughts grew into more concrete ideas and soon became science. Once science became the way to interpret the physical world, it shifted more towards the things that can't be explain easily by science but not with definitive answers like religion.

Philosophy is the cornerstone of critical thought and I'd reckon we need a bit more of that these days. I think it was Issac Asimov who said "The math department is easy to supply with, only needing pencils, paper, and erasers. The philosophy department is easier, only needing pencils and paper."

 

[Tanakh]

Without philosophy, there is no science.

Humm... not really, the study of medicine as a science predate that of philosophy by about 2000 years.

 

[zehydra]

I feel like philosophy is more important from an individual standpoint. Therefore, I don't think people should be forced to learn it. However, at some point everyone contemplates their and humanity's purpose. The latter seems pointless but the former makes life worth living if the individual can find or contrive some sort of answer.

it should be taught, mainly for the sake of learning how to make a good argument, logic and things like that.

There is much, much more to philosophy than simply contemplating life's purpose or meaning.

 

[funguy2121]

Hey guys. I have to take a Philosophy class this year, so I've been reading the required book over the summer, and OH MY GOD IS THIS THE STUPIDEST SUBJECT EVER!

See, I'm a very hard sciences kind of guy, so reading about dead Greeks' abstract theories on trivial bullshit (a lot of which have been proven false by modern science) seems like a complete waste of time to me. Why bother with high concept ideas that can't be proven and are inapplicable to real life?

What do you guys think about the subject? Are there any philosophy aficionados out there that can teach me the error of my ignorant ways?

EDIT: Just to clarify, I mean philosophy as in the academic subject as it currently exists, not the general school of thought.

Where to begin? Firstly, that school wouldn't exist, nor would any of academia. The mathematics upon which so much of science is based, Hell, pretty much organized science in general, wouldn't exist, and nor would any kind of organized and ethical medicine. Oh yeah, ethics, too.

I'm pretty sure Richard Rorty is still alive. And Derrida left us just a few short years ago. Philosophy didn't stop with Aristotle.

It would seem that either the majority of the philosophy that's been introduced to you or the way in which it has been introduced to you has been of the snooty, intentionally indigestible variety. I've read passages of Kant that are very clearly based on nothing wherein, having began at nothing and gone in very deep, intricate circles around nothing, we arrive at nothing and are told to accept the beauty of the futility of our lives. All philosophy isn't like this. If you think that it is, you should read the constitution of your home country some time, and read the journals of some of its composers. Democracy is also a gift from the Greeks, refined further by the likes of John Locke. Of course, democracy isn't perfect and is failing us now, but that's because no one listens to philosophers any more, because they're too busy listening to Glenn Beck.

Short version: it isn't all theoretical. Medicine, education and democracy prove that.

 

[zehydra]

Without philosophy, there is no science.

Humm... not really, the study of medicine as a science predate that of philosophy by about 2000 years.

But there must have been some method by which to study it? The methodologies of study is also a philosophical thing.

 

[zehydra]

It's important so you learn how to create an identity. What do you like? What don't you? Who are you?

Well, yeah, it is one of the things it does. However religion, lots of TV or pertinence to a tight social group also give that resoult, and probably much better (more efficient, less ambiguous).

We live in an ambiguous world, mate. Nothing is ever black or white, only what we want to be.

Ooh, here's a philosophical statement. OP, take a look at this guy's post. Without philosophy, you couldn't agree with him, or disagree with him in a rational manner.

 

[Tanakh]

My philosophy professor explained it best: philosophy is the grandmother of the sciences.

Then you check the timeline and see:

- Earliest philosopher Thales of Miletus 624 BC ? 546 BC
- Earliest medic Imhotep 2655 BC - 2600 BC

Philosophy, as most modern sciences, is the daughter of the sciences that humans needed NOT TO DIE, and to keep the stomach full.

 

[Jake0fTrades]

If the world didn't have idealists, what would be the point of existing anyway? We'd live a shallow, selfish existence.

 

[Dinwatr]

We live in an ambiguous world, mate. Nothing is ever black or white, only what we want to be.

If you shoot me, I die. That's black-and-white. I either ate those gram crackers or I didn't a few minutes ago. Again, black-and-white. More fundamentally, things either exist or they don't. That's not really something you can disagree with--to disagree with it is a statement presupposing your own existence. In other words, you need to accept my argument in order to refute it.

OP, take a look at this guy's post. Without philosophy, you couldn't agree with him, or disagree with him in a rational manner.

Actually, without philosophy you'd have no way to determine whether you agreed or not to begin with, much less to do so rationally. Even an irrational philosophy is a philosophy.

 

[Tanakh]

But there must have been some method by which to study it? The methodologies of study is also a philosophical thing.

Yep, and they were honeybadgers about it. I know what you are trying to say, but it's like affirming that walking is a mechanical-physics bio-mechanic-engineering quantum-field-modifying act; while the statement is true, it mattered crap almost any human you asked, they only wanted to move from A to B to eat, love or survive. Same as that, ancient medics, masons, warriors, any of the founders of applied scientific profession you can name didn't gave a thought to the methods.

 

[wrightry]

Philosophy is everything to understanding the world around us and the social realms we live in. It's not about black and white practical vs. impractical, it's the history of thought and mental evolution throughout history. It's definitely not for everyone, but it is something that's worth taking seriously. Try to involve yourself in the ideas of the class and maybe you'll learn something interesting (maybe even incredibly useful/crucial) about yourself.

 

[Tanakh]

If the world didn't have idealists, what would be the point of existing anyway? We'd live a shallow, selfish existence.

We do m8!

And to f"#k that and strive for more is what being badass is bout.

 

[zehydra]

But there must have been some method by which to study it? The methodologies of study is also a philosophical thing.

Yep, and they were honeybadgers about it. I know what you are trying to say, but it's like affirming that walking is a mechanical-physics bio-mechanic-engineering quantum-field-modifying act; while the statement is true, it mattered crap almost any human you asked, they only wanted to move from A to B to eat, love or survive. Same as that, ancient medics, masons, warriors, any of the founders of applied scientific profession you can name didn't gave a thought to the methods.

If they didn't care as to the methods of study, then I highly question the notion that they were science at all.

 

[Navvan]

Hey guys. I have to take a Philosophy class this year, so I've been reading the required book over the summer, and OH MY GOD IS THIS THE STUPIDEST SUBJECT EVER!

See, I'm a very hard sciences kind of guy, so reading about dead Greeks' abstract theories on trivial bullshit (a lot of which have been proven false by modern science) seems like a complete waste of time to me. Why bother with high concept ideas that can't be proven and are inapplicable to real life?

What do you guys think about the subject? Are there any philosophy aficionados out there that can teach me the error of my ignorant ways?

EDIT: Just to clarify, I mean philosophy as in the academic subject as it currently exists, not the general school of thought.

As both a triple science major and philosophy minor I feel I'm rather qualified to answer this. I'm not entirely sure what you are currently studying in your philosophy book, but there are many more branches of philosophy than you may think and some are more practical than others.

For example logic and by extension rationality. That is philosophy, and one of the core foundations of science itself. I would say that is important to know.

Ethics, also philosophy and important for any scientist or doctor to have a decent grasp.

Then there are less practical (but still important) branches like metaphysics and aesthetics which try to portray an idea of what is reality, what makes something worth while, and many more things. These are things science can't entirely address.

I'm not sure what you mean by "academic philosophy" and "general school of thought" because they are the same. Perhaps you could give an example of "academic philosophy that has been proven wrong by science" and I would be more able to address your question.

I'll end this post with three fragments.

Science tells us how.
Philosophy tells us why.
Art tells us who.

 

[Jake0fTrades]

If the world didn't have idealists, what would be the point of existing anyway? We'd live a shallow, selfish existence.

We do m8!

And to f"#k that and strive for more is what being badass is bout.

No, that's what being a cynical opportunist is about.

 

[Tanakh]

If they didn't care as to the methods of study, then I highly question the notion that they were science at all.

Mhee, for me science is just a bunch of self-correcting knowledge that tries to explain and predict the universe. (whatever that phrase might mean)

 

[wrightry]

Also the reason why I believe people should be forced to learn philosophy is because we're entering an age where we're very VERY short on individual and influential thought. We need our young, new generation to be exposed to these ideas so that we can continue developing and not fall back into a dark age. Obviously not everyone will get philosophy if they're too interested in the practical and useful. But if we expose everyone to these deep ideas we will have more thinkers. I hope we all can agree that thinking is important for human advancement... a lot less of it goes on than we may believe... I thought I was a thinker before I took my first Philosophy class. I was WAAAAY wrong.

 

[funguy2121]

But the thing about studying philosophy is it helps you make better decisions.

Wait, what? No, it most certainly does NOT!

Freaking Lord, I have yet to read a serious philosophy book that can even define "better decision".

At most it will allow you to see maybe new choices? But that's about it.

The Republic, by Plato. Not the easiest of reads, but relevant, nonetheless. Guess what it's about?

 

[honestdiscussioner]

Without philosophy, there is no science.

Humm... not really, the study of medicine as a science predate that of philosophy by about 2000 years.

Humm . . not really. The practice of medicine and healing may be quite old, but that doesn't mean it was practiced as a "science".

According to dictionary.com, science is: a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws.

There was nothing systematic about medicine back then. Some may have instituted a rudimentary trial and error system in some areas, but that's the exception (and a weak one) rather than the rule.

Science as we know it is only a few centuries old.

 

[Tanakh]

No, that's what being a cynical opportunist is about.

And yet Cynicism is one of the biggest philosophical branches of the Greek school! For they realized we are on a rat race and decided to Areterize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arete) the Jebus out of it!