Then, pfff, just as you didn't care enough to thoughtfully read my response and so didn't understand it, you're still not grasping that you're arguing science while ignoring scientific method.Tanakh said:
Poll: Philosophy: Important or a Waste of Time?
- Thread starter pppppppppppppppppp
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Amen. One of the most influential philosophers of all time: Aristotle. Also basically invented science and the scientific method we use today. And since when were subjects like ethics, the nature of reality and the existence of God trivial?zehydra said:
It isn't really of any great significance by itself, but it is in our very nature to question everything. We want to know who we are, what we are, when we are and above all: Why?
Philosophy alone will get you nowhere, but acting on such questions through practical investigation forms the foundations of our modern sciences among other things.
Taking classes on it, however, is not something I can see any great point to. You can't teach someone how to think productively, only give them the right questions.
Philosophy alone will get you nowhere, but acting on such questions through practical investigation forms the foundations of our modern sciences among other things.
Taking classes on it, however, is not something I can see any great point to. You can't teach someone how to think productively, only give them the right questions.
Ohhh, yeah! I totally am, because for me science has long being more than just the scientific method.funguy2121 said:
I am basing that on a couple of books by Poincare, and some Russell references; however i am not too deep into philosophy of science.
And the reason is basically that reality is impossible to know, and thinking that you can get fact or trout is totally crap, a priory any idea is just an approximation no inherently better than any other we can dream while wasted. If we only take the scientific method, then most of quantum physics and all math aren't science, which is something i don't like, so i take a different approach.
You apparently dont understand the purpose of philosophy. Philosophy is used when there is no possible or no conceived way to test a theory. Say you are given a box, this box cannot be opened and you can't see through it, but you can shake it, hit it , move it, weigh it, whatever your "hard science" allows you to do and your task that you put upon yourself is to find out what is in that box. Now, seeing as you have no empirical means of uncovering the contents of that box, we use what we have to chip at it or figure out the contents, but all those theories we come up with are "Philosophies" because at the end of the day, we have no insight as to what really is in that box and what we do come with is nothing more than speculation.
Here's a practical example, in ancient Greek times, there lived a philosopher named Aristotle (i do believe it was him, correct me if i'm wrong) who postulated a theory that matter can always be cut in half, it's size had nothing to do with it. It didn't matter how small the piece got, it could always be cut in half, that we would never reach the smallest piece. He also theorized that matter was comprised of 5 elements wind, earth, fire, water and the aether. Logically these theories are perfectly sound, i mean, so long as matter is there i can always split it, and all we see for the most part are variations of wind, earth, air and water, the differences like metal, or things like that can be determined by tints of aether and other elements or something similar. Even if we know those theories aren't right, they had no way to prove it or disprove it, but it did make sense, so it's all good.
Fast forward to today and we do have the technology to disprove it. however, the only reason we ever thought of trying to prove or disprove it, was because there was a philosophy that existed for it. We can't run an experiment without thinking of it first, that is where philosophy comes in. It is a method of exploring the possibilities when we do not have the physical means to verify it.
But let's look back, we'll take 4 elements originally thought of (disregarding aether) we have wind, earth, fire and water. hmm sounds like something that we have currently proved, no? let's try changing the names a little; gas, solid, energy, liquid... hot damn, they look very similar don't they? That is the true nature of science, you create a "philosophy" and then you go about trying to disprove that philosophy until you cannot doubt it anymore. Maybe your results are completely unrelated to your intentions, like earlier in this paragraph, what they thought to be elements was more similar to the states of matter. it was still scientifically relevant, but they didnt view it with the eyes we have today (metaphorically speaking) so they had no idea they were in the wrong.
After that brief history, ill stop here. there is so much more i can cover regarding this topic, but i already make a big ol' block o' text. if prompted for more "philosophy" i will be happy to reply
Here's a practical example, in ancient Greek times, there lived a philosopher named Aristotle (i do believe it was him, correct me if i'm wrong) who postulated a theory that matter can always be cut in half, it's size had nothing to do with it. It didn't matter how small the piece got, it could always be cut in half, that we would never reach the smallest piece. He also theorized that matter was comprised of 5 elements wind, earth, fire, water and the aether. Logically these theories are perfectly sound, i mean, so long as matter is there i can always split it, and all we see for the most part are variations of wind, earth, air and water, the differences like metal, or things like that can be determined by tints of aether and other elements or something similar. Even if we know those theories aren't right, they had no way to prove it or disprove it, but it did make sense, so it's all good.
Fast forward to today and we do have the technology to disprove it. however, the only reason we ever thought of trying to prove or disprove it, was because there was a philosophy that existed for it. We can't run an experiment without thinking of it first, that is where philosophy comes in. It is a method of exploring the possibilities when we do not have the physical means to verify it.
But let's look back, we'll take 4 elements originally thought of (disregarding aether) we have wind, earth, fire and water. hmm sounds like something that we have currently proved, no? let's try changing the names a little; gas, solid, energy, liquid... hot damn, they look very similar don't they? That is the true nature of science, you create a "philosophy" and then you go about trying to disprove that philosophy until you cannot doubt it anymore. Maybe your results are completely unrelated to your intentions, like earlier in this paragraph, what they thought to be elements was more similar to the states of matter. it was still scientifically relevant, but they didnt view it with the eyes we have today (metaphorically speaking) so they had no idea they were in the wrong.
After that brief history, ill stop here. there is so much more i can cover regarding this topic, but i already make a big ol' block o' text. if prompted for more "philosophy" i will be happy to reply
The way I see it, science tells how, and philosophy says why it matters.
No matter how much scientific research is done, it's pointless to do it without a reason, or without considering the implications of the research.
I also think philosophy is the key part of the difference between knowing and understanding.
No matter how much scientific research is done, it's pointless to do it without a reason, or without considering the implications of the research.
I also think philosophy is the key part of the difference between knowing and understanding.
Philosophy is only as good as it's ability to apply to and improve every day life.Glass Joe the Champ said:
I don't have much experience with the academic subject but philosophy itself is certainly worthwhile. It's how I figured out the nature of human thinking architecture.
I did take a bit of philosophy in high school, and that was kinda a waste of time. However, it was a very informative and fun waste of time. It was like when I used to play Math Blasters.
I did take a bit of philosophy in high school, and that was kinda a waste of time. However, it was a very informative and fun waste of time. It was like when I used to play Math Blasters.
Philosophy is something everyone with even a shred of logic practices, weather they mean to or not. A philosophy is simply a way or understanding of life, the study of wisdom. If you put serious thought into your life, then you practice philosophy, and it is thus logical to educate yourself on it's history.
That's not to say what they teach in school is of any worth, if you want to learn about philosophy, speak to wise and intelligent people who you know well about issues you find confusing or uncomfortable.
If you've never been bothered with such questions as "What is the meaning of life" or "What is the nature of humanity?", then you probably won't find philosophy very interesting. On the other hand, if you're not interested because you think you already have these answers, then I would still recommend talking to people about it, so's to avoid ever sounding like or becoming a pretentious douchebag.
Either way, if the stuff their teaching in school doesn't interest you, then there's nothing for you there. If you really aren't sure then ask one of your teachers why they think this stuff is important.
That's not to say what they teach in school is of any worth, if you want to learn about philosophy, speak to wise and intelligent people who you know well about issues you find confusing or uncomfortable.
If you've never been bothered with such questions as "What is the meaning of life" or "What is the nature of humanity?", then you probably won't find philosophy very interesting. On the other hand, if you're not interested because you think you already have these answers, then I would still recommend talking to people about it, so's to avoid ever sounding like or becoming a pretentious douchebag.
Either way, if the stuff their teaching in school doesn't interest you, then there's nothing for you there. If you really aren't sure then ask one of your teachers why they think this stuff is important.
Well no offence but this is kind of an unfair question. You could probably argue the same point to every "subject as it currently exists in school", since most of them are boring and barley applicable to any real life scenario that isn't extremely specific.Glass Joe the Champ said:
Reread the republic; it's about how to properly order the individual soul using the Republic as a metaphor for said soul. Seriously, read the work before you comment on the contents.Tanakh said:AFAI-Recall is about building good moral and ethical values in the soon to be Greek citizens. Now, good for whom? For the Republic actually, not necessarily for the individual. That's also why the whole Socratic school recommends start education with epic, for you to LOVE your country
Off topic: Nice username, I'm quite fond of that translation.
I am fairly certain the part of his book he is reading is about the early history of western philosophy, such as Thales' metaphysical philosophy that everything in the world is made of water.funguy2121 said:
Sorry, I voted before reading enough of the OP.
I agree that philosophy shouldn't be studied as an exact science that has truths.
I believe philosophy should be discussed on an individual level between two or more persons to widen their perspectives and to share views.
You can never have enough philosophical input, but it's what we make of it all that matters.
I agree that philosophy shouldn't be studied as an exact science that has truths.
I believe philosophy should be discussed on an individual level between two or more persons to widen their perspectives and to share views.
You can never have enough philosophical input, but it's what we make of it all that matters.
I have taken several college philosophy classes, and what your class sounds like is Intro to Philosophy, which is one half History of Philosophy and one half Everything about Philosophy in Five Minutes.Glass Joe the Champ said:
As many people have pointed out Ethics is philosophy, in addition classes on Logic are philosophy classes.
Also don't bunk something because it sounds dumb, as you will probably learn in your class a Greek philosopher known as Zeno was laughed at because his metaphysical theory said every object was made up of thousands of tiny imperceptible objects. To rehash: he was pondering atoms thousands of years before microscopes powerful enough to see them existed. It is not dumb.
Well, he might be using a philosophical statement, but do you know if he's studied philosophy to be able to use it? This discussion isn't about philosophy being useless, but if the subject is which I thought was clear from the OT even before the post was edited. I'm not sure if you've studied it or not, but to sum it up briefly. There's a whole lot of "He said that" and "he did that". They present the ideas, but you don't learn anything buy how it has been used. Philosophy has been the major point in driving science in the old days, but being a philosopher was quite different from now. Philosophers create the basics of modern society and science. If you want to study something to do that now you study either social anthropology or science subjects. Philosophy will only teach you the ideas behind it. Sure it may be interesting, but how many jobs are there for philosophers these days? Based on the probability that you're going to spend your life flipping burgers when your education is done I say it's a waste of time.BrassButtons said:
I think it's very important because we can develop our own beliefs and when learning about other beliefs from other cultures, stopping people being ignorant. As a 16 year old Christian who finished my philosophy gcse a few months ago I think it's great that a) people understand why I believe what I believe (even if they're still cunts about it, but that's another rant for another day) and b) I think it's good that me and everyone else learns more about Islam, because obviously a lot of people still are suspicious of Islam, what with terrorists and such, and it's good that us as the youth aren't ignorant about it. I mean, I bet my mum doesn't even know what the Qur'an is, let alone that it's nice and not made from terrorists.
I'm terrible at long answers.
I'm terrible at long answers.
That's why you're learning it.Glass Joe the Champ said:
How can you understand the multiverse without Plato's Cave? How can you explore assymptotes without Zeno's Paradox?
How can you prove you even exist without Cogito Ergo Sum?
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to fulfill it" -Santayana
Meh. It's important to understand philosophy. What it is and where it came from. It also laid the foundation for a lot of modern thought, so that's a pretty big point in its favor as well. And of course everyone has to have their own personal philosophy, although if you need a college class for that there is something seriously wrong with you.
Honestly though? Basically about 99.9% of anything that's ever been called philosophy is absolute stupid pointless bullshit that never should have existed, so I think philosophy has used up pretty much all its remaining goodwill and I really wish the pretentious twats that won't ever shut up about how great it is would just go away already. Nobody cares. Sitting around contemplating unimportant things doesn't make you smart.
Honestly though? Basically about 99.9% of anything that's ever been called philosophy is absolute stupid pointless bullshit that never should have existed, so I think philosophy has used up pretty much all its remaining goodwill and I really wish the pretentious twats that won't ever shut up about how great it is would just go away already. Nobody cares. Sitting around contemplating unimportant things doesn't make you smart.