Poll: Playing As The Third Riech

[SacremPyrobolum]

Are you comfortable as playing as a Germany based on the years of 1933 to 1945?

Personally I'm just fine with it. I even took it a step forward in the BlackICE mod for Hearts of Iron III by creating an entire SS Army for police use in subjugated countries. In games like Company of Hero's also like playing as the Germans because they have the coolest toys (Panthers and Tigers, rockets, STG44) and the nicest uniforms (that'll happen when Boss is your tailor).

What about you?

 

[AmberSword]

Yes, I would even accept playing through an exact recreation of events, so long as it makes for a good game, and remains unbiased to either side of the war at the time, as impossible as that is to pull off.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

They even swarmed Red Orchestra's forums and demanded that the Russian guns be made more powerful than they really were because "these guns won." Since Germany wins almost every match I seen.

I play Red Orchestra 2, and I go Axis every single time because Germany just has the better equipment. Outside a couple weapons like SMG, Russia really has nothing to offer.

The reason they offered was a poor one, but don't they have a point about Russian guns needing a boost if what you say about the Germans equipment vs the Russians is true?

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Yes, I would even accept playing through an exact recreation of events, so long as it makes for a good game, and remains unbiased to either side of the war at the time, as impossible as that is to pull off.

I don't want to play a game or watch a movie about a Jewish refuge running away from the SS, I want to watch a movie or play a game about the SS hunting down Jews. I want to see how far down the rabbit hole we can go.

 

[AmberSword]

Yes, I would even accept playing through an exact recreation of events, so long as it makes for a good game, and remains unbiased to either side of the war at the time, as impossible as that is to pull off.

I don't want to play a game or watch a movie about a Jewish refuge running away from the SS, I want to watch a movie or play a game about the SS hunting down Jews. I want to see how far down the rabbit hole we can go.

Yes of course, as long as it at least tries to remain true to history.

We can't dispute the fact that these events happened, so making a game about it is reasonable. I am also perfectly willing to accept the fact that some, especially those that have experienced the horrors first hand, might not be able to stomach it.

I know I sound like a cruel prick, maybe I am, but tragedy + time = comedy, or in this case, maybe a fun game.

 

[Barbas]

(Snip).

Well, I like what Relic did for Company of Heroes 2 - giving the Red Army larger squads and, in the Theater of War mode, placing you in battles with the available equipment from that stage in the war. Early on, you'd be taking on KV-1 heavy tanks with largely ineffective anti-tank weapons and the shorter-barreled Sturmgeschütz, having to use mines and flanking to turn the odds in your favour. Such scenarios was where the game really shined, IMO. I find myself wishing Red Orchestra 2 had taken the same approach...unless it has. I haven't been back to that game in a while.

OT: To be honest, OP, I think the CoH series does what you've listed pretty well. In terms of FPS games, though...not as much. It's really the tanks and planes that interest me, whereas when it comes to the soldiers, books usually do a better job of it than games.

 

[Dragonlayer]

I will gladly die for our glorious Fuhrer and Fatherland, mein Oberstgruppenfuhrer!

Given the opportunity, I always play as the Germans (I have yet to touch COH2's campaign for that exact reason) due to a multitude of reasons: better weapons, better training, cooler stuff and anti-semitism a certain sympathy for the common German soldier and civilian, already doomed to die pointlessly for the worst regime in history and condemned to be endlessly demonized as baby-eating monsters in all forms of media.

 

[Doom972]

Would I feel comfortable about playing as a member of a group that killed millions of innocents for their twisted ideology? Would I feel uncomfortable playing as the worst of humanity? Yes I would. If there's a game where you play as a Nazi who doesn't shift his loyalty at some point I wouldn't play it.

They don't bother teaching people about the horrors of the Holocaust in most of the world. Otherwise we probably wouldn't have a thread like this to begin with.

Captcha: "political party". How appropriate.

 

[Dragonlayer]

Yes, I would even accept playing through an exact recreation of events, so long as it makes for a good game, and remains unbiased to either side of the war at the time, as impossible as that is to pull off.

I don't want to play a game or watch a movie about a Jewish refuge running away from the SS, I want to watch a movie or play a game about the SS hunting down Jews. I want to see how far down the rabbit hole we can go.

A crass shooting gallery game set in Auschwitz would be the very height of tastelessness (to put it lightly), but I always thought that a WW2 FPS with intent to be morally challenging could work perfectly with German characters: the campaign could be divided between brothers or friends who ended up in separate units, one in a regular Heer division and another in the Waffen SS. The Heer character could be the conventionally "good" campaign, showcasing the war through German eyes from the triumphs in the West in 40, through the seemingly invincible early days of Barbarossa and then the disasters of 42/43, until you're struggling to survive in apocalyptic struggles against impossible odds as the Wehrmact is driven back to Berlin. While this would no doubt showcase atrocities, the player would be largely isolated from them - you would witness executions of prisoners and partisans from the sidelines. The Waffen SS campaign on the other hand would go the Spec Ops: The Line route and have the player actively take part in worse and worse crimes. It would take incredible finesse, but I think it could be a interesting look at the depths people could descend to without ever being caricatures or just mustache twirling villains from the get-go.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

They don't bother teaching people about the horrors of the Holocaust in most of the world. Otherwise we probably wouldn't have a thread like this to begin with.

For what it's worth, I live in the states and have taken AP history where we covered the world wars and their effects in depth including the Holocaust.

 

[Dragonlayer]

Would I feel comfortable about playing as a member of a group that killed millions of innocents for their twisted ideology? Would I feel uncomfortable playing as the worst of humanity? Yes I would. If there's a game where you play as a Nazi who doesn't shift his loyalty at some point I wouldn't play it.

They don't bother teaching people about the horrors of the Holocaust in most of the world. Otherwise we probably wouldn't have a thread like this to begin with.

Captcha: "political party". How appropriate.

Trust me, I'm very well read when it comes to the appalling crimes the Third Reich committed, and I certainly don't preface every Youtube comment with "AH/88" but I am so tired of depictions of Nazi Germany as one monolithic entity of pure, unrelenting evil from the get-go, because that simply wasn't the case. Take the average WW2 game and its idealistic farm boy Yank discovering the horrors of war, its defiant stiff-upper lipped Tommy determined to sock it out to the bitter end and its stubborn Russian, driven by righteous fury - are there equally patriotic Germans fighting for their country, right or wrong, embittered Hilfswillige who've realised what a terrible choice they've made, or terrified Volksturm conscripts who barely survived the trenches of the first war and now must survive this nightmare? Or are there just generic cannon fodder and cackling 2D demons?

 

[Muspelheim]

Yes, I am, mostly. It depends. In most games featuring playable germans, they're just regular Wehrmacht lads. They work to carry out the will of a madman, certainly, but they're just troops. After all, I don't mind playing British, either, despite the Churchill Crime Tour in India. The Tommies were just Tommies, even if their colours were bloodied.

In fact, I think I tend to favour them. I like the gear better, I prefer the uniforms and Germany is the friendly neighbour that sells cheap booze and ask few questions. It just feels homely, for some reason.

Of course, I would be uncomfortable playing, say, KZ Manager or some game where you were meant to both commit attrocities and like it.

 

[Weaver]

Absolutely. Like you said, I really enjoyed Company of Heroes German campaign. IMO the game did a fair job of painting them as actual humans forced into war instead of faceless monsters.

 

[DukeGren]

They even swarmed Red Orchestra's forums and demanded that the Russian guns be made more powerful than they really were because "these guns won." Since Germany wins almost every match I seen.

I play Red Orchestra 2, and I go Axis every single time because Germany just has the better equipment. Outside a couple weapons like SMG, Russia really has nothing to offer.

The reason they offered was a poor one, but don't they have a point about Russian guns needing a boost if what you say about the Germans equipment vs the Russians is true?

There is no point. Historically, Russians had worse equipment. The SMG did have a faster fire rate and spread, but it ate up ammo like no ones business and the recoil made it almost worthless. Still, a good spray and pray weapon.

The HMG is no match for the MG 34. Germany's HMGs were legendary for a reason.

The Mosin is decent, but the Kar hits harder like it did in real life. Though you can't tell because 1 hit kills are standard.

Russia relies on the teamwork bonuses, but since noobs always pick Russia that means no one uses it.

The veterans pick Germany because it has not only a lot of things going for it but a homogenous player base. The idea is that veterans pick their side, and the noobs always pick the side who won the real war. So rather than deal with noobs, veterans moved to Germany so they won't have to deal with them as much.

There is a clear classism in RO2.

The same is true for Rising Storm. Japan has garbage for weapons, and that was historically accurate as the type 38 rifle was highly outclassed by all others. The Type 99 is decent, but the "grenade launcher" iron sights limits their range to 150 meters which is nothing in RO2. Their pistol, mimicking the Luger, was worse than the German original.

Japan has teamwork bonuses, but no one ever uses it.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on the weapons in RO:HoS and RS.

I personally find that the German and Russian weapons are fairly similar in performance most of the time, and that the weapons that are different aren't necessarily worse than the other side's counterpart.
The Russian DP-28 for example, while it cannot be upgraded like the MG-34 and therefore has a disadvantage in terms of ammunition capacity, is more accurate and has a lower ROF which leads to less wasted ammunition.
The PPSH-41 while inaccurate when compared to the MP40 is great at clearing buildings and CQB in general, especially when using the drum magazine.

In Rising Storm I actually prefer the Japanese weapons to the American ones, and the two only things I would consider better on the US side would be the M1 Garand and the M2-2 Flame-thrower, though I'm not saying that the Japanese weapons are good just the I prefer them.

OT: Yes I am.

 

[Macsen Wledig]

I don't mind playing as the third riech in games like HOI but that doesn't mean I don't think it was a piece of shit country. I mean I have no problem playing as the British Empire in Victoria either but I still think the things the British Empire did were despicable.

 

[beastro]

Only issue I have is playing Islamic factions in historical games like CK2 (does help that their gameplay mechanics are usually different and less enjoyable than others in games like said games Islamic succession laws or having higher corruption and more inept leaders in ETW, etc), no issue with FPSs though.