Poll: Required Enlistment
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Personally, I think every one of our citizens (rich enough or not) should be required to serve at least two years of customer service. Might cut down on the percentage of inconsiderate assholes in our midst.
(Served 12+ years myself, and I've taken those lessons with me in just about every aspect of my life.
Except forum posting, of course. But a guy needs an outlet!)
(Served 12+ years myself, and I've taken those lessons with me in just about every aspect of my life.
Except forum posting, of course. But a guy needs an outlet!)
We have it in Denmark. Currently the military sorts out 90% of the people who apply, some for medical reasons, some because they don't need all the recruits.
The first thing that comes flying out of the mouth of the ministry of defence whenever someone says the word 'conscription' is that they would rather not be forced to waste such large resources on unwilling recruits, and would prefer to advertice themselves and spend more on the people who are actually valueable to them.
I agree that in today's society this is the best option since we don't fight large-scale setpiece battles anymore. We don't need hordes of infantry to man the trenches, it is a lot more cost-effective to keep developing a soldier who plans to stay than give some unwilling or incapable person basic training and then send him home and tell him to be ready for a world war that will never happend.
The first thing that comes flying out of the mouth of the ministry of defence whenever someone says the word 'conscription' is that they would rather not be forced to waste such large resources on unwilling recruits, and would prefer to advertice themselves and spend more on the people who are actually valueable to them.
I agree that in today's society this is the best option since we don't fight large-scale setpiece battles anymore. We don't need hordes of infantry to man the trenches, it is a lot more cost-effective to keep developing a soldier who plans to stay than give some unwilling or incapable person basic training and then send him home and tell him to be ready for a world war that will never happend.
Being forced into joining the army for no other reason than 'Cause the Government says so!' is a stupid idea. What if the person was a pacifist or was morally opposed to armed conflict? You're basically saying 'Fuck your beliefs and values! You're doing what WE want!'.
If someone wants to join the militsry, let them-it's what they want to do. You shouldn't force people into training.
If someone wants to join the militsry, let them-it's what they want to do. You shouldn't force people into training.
It might be OK. At the very least it might get our social manners up. Seriously, send all the troubled kids, and people who plain don't give a damn to be shapped into military spec and our society would probably drastically improve. Granted you should be able to schoose the service you go into. Another thing with a policy like this is people might find out that they actually like it, when they had no interest in the military before.
Over all, could our country benefit from doing something like this? Yes. Would anyone let it by Congress? I doubt it.
Over all, could our country benefit from doing something like this? Yes. Would anyone let it by Congress? I doubt it.
I live in Finland and therefore cope with compulsory military service. Looking back to history the systems has proven its worht, but the timing could be better, at least for me. If I manage to get a place in university I can study only six months. Six months is kinda short period to move into another city, get a appartment and job for just six months. However as I presumably performed poorly in exam I don't get the place. And now there's a service effectively preventing me from applying again for one to two years.
Well, that really depends on the country, really. If you're in a country at peace and not currently engaged in any combat with anyone, then yes, the people could use the experience. Folks in South Korea, for example, do this, but do they really get shot at by their commie counter parts? The idea of drafting people from the civilian populace only goes to hell when A) Most of the people are about as privileged as an Olympian Deity who won an Oscar, and B) is currently engaged in a war. One sterling example is the USA. I understand that many of you don't want to get your appendix shot out by a 7.62x39mm, and I respect that because who the fuck doesn't want that to happen? In places like the Philippines, however, it's a bit different. As I am a citizen of said country, I know for a fact that youngsters here can crack coconut with their noggins given that they are given an incentive like... weed, and that's a good thing, because we fight equally psychotic enemies in the southern islands, like the Abu Sayyaf, MILF and so on. Here, it's not a really stupid idea to make youngsters join the military by law, since most of the people here know how to kill a person with a baguette in twenty five different ways by age thirteen. So overall, I say that people in rich warmachine sovereignties shouldn't be forced, and people from every other place should, because it's not a very bad experience.
A draft would be bad for me...well, it would be bad for everyone else, because giving me unarmed combat and weapons training is like giving a monkey a shotgun. Also, if I get drafted then sent to some war zone with squishy targets, anyone that shoots at me dies, and I wouldn't be bothered by it....that's just the way my mind works. I am not cut out for military service, just because giving me the chance to kill people and make it entirely "ok" would mean I'd turn into a gun-crazed overzealous killer.
Mandatory military service seems incredibly stupid to me. Do you really think it'll be a good idea to have a bunch of people in the army who really don't want to be there? Because that's what you'll end up with if everyone has to serve at least one year.
The idea of a generation of reluctant soldiers who only do what they're told because they have no other choice seems incredibly risky. If you join the military, you have to do it because of your own beliefs, fully aware of the pros and cons. Not because you're forced to do so.
The idea of a generation of reluctant soldiers who only do what they're told because they have no other choice seems incredibly risky. If you join the military, you have to do it because of your own beliefs, fully aware of the pros and cons. Not because you're forced to do so.
Hell fucking no. I thank God we have the military, and the people who serve in it are veritable heroes, but that shit ain't for me.
I would only wanted to be drafted if there was a good reason to be, like if my service were absolutely necessary to the survival of the nation. I mean, I want to join the military, but if you don't, I don't think you should be forced to unless it is an absolute necessity.
No. It would be against someone's civil rights to force a year of military service upon them. Beside's that, I know I wouldn't mind a year of service. Hell, I wouldn't mind making a career out of it.
However itf there was some war going on that I was opposed to I would most certainly not be happy with forced service in the military.
However itf there was some war going on that I was opposed to I would most certainly not be happy with forced service in the military.
Force people to join the army? And possibly get killed in the process?
Fuck that.
First off, I've seen enough of the military to know that I don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole. Having to do what someone else says because he has more chevrons on his hat is no fun at all. Especially when there is a possibility of having to do so in a life-or-death situation. I would not want to be forced into that and neither would other people.
Secondly, do you really think an army would benefit by being filled with people who really don't want to be there?
(I'm Australian, by the way.)
Fuck that.
First off, I've seen enough of the military to know that I don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole. Having to do what someone else says because he has more chevrons on his hat is no fun at all. Especially when there is a possibility of having to do so in a life-or-death situation. I would not want to be forced into that and neither would other people.
Secondly, do you really think an army would benefit by being filled with people who really don't want to be there?
(I'm Australian, by the way.)
No. Conscription can very easily create deep feelings of unhappiness amongst the populace, and you only have to look at Napoleon to see the risks - one of the primary reasons he lost power in France was because of the unpopularity of his conscription policies.
As has been reiterated in this thread, putting people who do not wish to fight in a combat situation is obviously a risk to themselves, as well as the people serving around them who may rely on them for support.
My two cents.
As has been reiterated in this thread, putting people who do not wish to fight in a combat situation is obviously a risk to themselves, as well as the people serving around them who may rely on them for support.
My two cents.
It might be a good idea, but wouldn't work.
The problem is that not every soldier agrees with going into particular wars, notably Vietnam. During Vietnam, many people who were drafted opposed the war, and that can be bad for morale out on the battlefield. Nowadays, with the Middle East, at least our soldiers volunteered to fight there. I'd feel safer knowing that the U.S. army was comprised of people who actually wanted to be there.
The problem is that not every soldier agrees with going into particular wars, notably Vietnam. During Vietnam, many people who were drafted opposed the war, and that can be bad for morale out on the battlefield. Nowadays, with the Middle East, at least our soldiers volunteered to fight there. I'd feel safer knowing that the U.S. army was comprised of people who actually wanted to be there.
I'm from England and have always been of the opinion that we should have SOME kind of mandatory service, but not for everyone.
You make a valid point in that it instills respect in people, but there are the very few who already show a lot of these things. They should enlist those who commit crimes (say, teenagers and young adults) or who are well known yobs (I don't know what the term is in America, but kids who cause problems and terrorise neighbourhoods; thugs, basically) but have not been convicted. It would get people to grow the hell up and it would definitely change peoples' attitudes.
I voted that it's a good idea but would never work because military life would just not suit some people. They might not be ready to move away from home (although I think they should suck it up), so I think the parents would be a major sticking point, and not everyone agrees with the military or the wars they participate in. No one in this country wanted to enter Iraq, but the guys already in the Army had to go, regardless of personal feelings. Some people are just not patriotic enough to fight for their country. They could be more of a liability than a strength.
You make a valid point in that it instills respect in people, but there are the very few who already show a lot of these things. They should enlist those who commit crimes (say, teenagers and young adults) or who are well known yobs (I don't know what the term is in America, but kids who cause problems and terrorise neighbourhoods; thugs, basically) but have not been convicted. It would get people to grow the hell up and it would definitely change peoples' attitudes.
I voted that it's a good idea but would never work because military life would just not suit some people. They might not be ready to move away from home (although I think they should suck it up), so I think the parents would be a major sticking point, and not everyone agrees with the military or the wars they participate in. No one in this country wanted to enter Iraq, but the guys already in the Army had to go, regardless of personal feelings. Some people are just not patriotic enough to fight for their country. They could be more of a liability than a strength.
This would be great. Being from one of the crappier parts of the UK (the Black Country, near Birmingham), I know from experience about the state the Tories call 'Broken Britain'. It is alive and well, sadly. I was lucky enough to get a place at the University of Leeds, and Leeds is a great place to live (still has a few trouble areas, but so does everywhere), and I couldn't wait to leave my hometown.WrongSprite said:
My point is that places like the Black Country wouldn't have nearly as much trouble if the kids had done National Service. When we used to do it, every kid left with at least a sense of discipline and self-control, and youth crime was virtually unheard of. Now, we don't even have discipline in the classrooms, let alone out in the real world, and kids feel like they can do whatever the hell they want. That's a major problem.
I have a friend who's English, but his mother is Norwegian. He has joint nationality of both the UK and Norway, so he's eligible to do National Service over in Norway. He can't wait to go out there and do it, he's really eager to go. Yet we have idiots roaming the streets of Englad and Wales, with knives and (more rare) guns, making innocent people scared to go out and live their lives. We have kids getting 'ASBOs' that do absolutely nothing except say that people should be careful around someone, because really ASBOs don't mean a thing. I say, bring back National Service, and force these kids to learn some discipline. It'll be much better for them and everyone in the long run.
Oh, and to anyone who thinks I'm a nonsense-spouting Tory, I'm not. For the record, I voted Lib Dem.
As would I, being a somewhat unfit Haemophiliac. But I'd try to find a way around it to minimise those who cannot take part.Fragamoo said:
I think a required year of service is a great idea, however I don't belive people should just be forced into a year of military service. I think military should be one of the options people have, but other groups like Peace Corp and those groups should be options for a year of service.
I support the idea of the National Service, as it's known in the UK. Making kids spend a year in the army would increase discipline, reduce obesity and be very useful for when China attacks us.