Poll: RPG Cliches you want to destroy
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Badass Action Girls. Then again, scared little girls who hide behind our hero.
I want a happy medium. A mildly attractive woman who isn't afraid of everything, but is smart enough to control the testosterone (Wrong spelling I bet.) and back off.
And the person you play being the one. How about a plot line where the VILLIAN is the one? Wouldn't that make for a good twist? Supposed to save the world, but had a troubled childhood, and grew up hateful?
Also, the whole 'set in the ancient land of ____' thing. Where's my modern RPG? I think a parallel now would be pretty good. Bit like TWEWY, but with less... I dunno, Japan.
I want a happy medium. A mildly attractive woman who isn't afraid of everything, but is smart enough to control the testosterone (Wrong spelling I bet.) and back off.
And the person you play being the one. How about a plot line where the VILLIAN is the one? Wouldn't that make for a good twist? Supposed to save the world, but had a troubled childhood, and grew up hateful?
Also, the whole 'set in the ancient land of ____' thing. Where's my modern RPG? I think a parallel now would be pretty good. Bit like TWEWY, but with less... I dunno, Japan.
this one has annoyed me, but I know that it's just due to the limits of the game. It's when you collect a collage of skilled warriors from around the world to join your cause, and you're only allowed to take x number of them with you at a time.
Awesome list, but for some reason it made me actually want to play a cliche RPG.unholy vagrant post=9.73163.785364 said:
I would do away with the teenage, angst filled protagonist. Why we are supposed to beleive they could have any chance in actually winning a fight against monsters, let alone saving the world is beyond me.
Also the whole "saving the world" thing get's rather old quickly, I'd like to play a game where the end result is simply "oh hey, what a fun adventure, I guess I'll go home now, that big boss guy looks way too powerful, I'll leave it up the the massive army that was in all the cut scenees to deal with it"
The worst one is that for a genre supposedly about role playing, you really only ever play one role, the only person who can save the cocking world from the ultimate evil threat yet again.
How about an RPG where the world isn't in danger from the evil whathisface who is gathering the 5 ancient mystical somethingorrathers and the whole bloody kingdom is relying on some level one nobody to stop him?
Is it really so hard to think of something else? We all know most RPG players are really at heart ammoral bastards who'll massacre hundreds and pinch anything not nailed down to amass personal power and profit, so how about an RPG where you start as a low level goon in a fantasy shadow guild of thieves and assassins and you go around nicking magical shit, fighting with rival guilds, bumping off anyone who gets in the way of your rise to power and covering up your tracks to keep the guards off your back until you're the strongest, richest and most powerful bastard around?
It took me 5 minutes to come up with that, how come it's so damn hard for RPG developers to come up with anything other than "What shall we do for a plot? I know, let's save the world again".
How about an RPG where the world isn't in danger from the evil whathisface who is gathering the 5 ancient mystical somethingorrathers and the whole bloody kingdom is relying on some level one nobody to stop him?
Is it really so hard to think of something else? We all know most RPG players are really at heart ammoral bastards who'll massacre hundreds and pinch anything not nailed down to amass personal power and profit, so how about an RPG where you start as a low level goon in a fantasy shadow guild of thieves and assassins and you go around nicking magical shit, fighting with rival guilds, bumping off anyone who gets in the way of your rise to power and covering up your tracks to keep the guards off your back until you're the strongest, richest and most powerful bastard around?
It took me 5 minutes to come up with that, how come it's so damn hard for RPG developers to come up with anything other than "What shall we do for a plot? I know, let's save the world again".
Combat and exploration that suck.
No RPG in the last decade has nailed both of them, and few have come close. I've watched so many promising real-time and turn-based games turn out bland, sluggish, unpolished, complicated, absurdly stacked towards the enemy, or some combination thereof. I believe I've found the root of that problem.
Half of these RPGs aren't designed for the computer, the console, or any other electronic device. They're designed for the tabletop, by tabletop people who know or care more about fantasy worlds and fantasy stories than about computer games or even games in general; CD Projekt, Troika, SSI, and early Square-Enix come readily to mind.
The other half are from the sim types like Piranha Bytes and post-Daggerfall Bethesda, who are so lost in delivering a realistic fantasy life experience that they'll let the framerate drop to 10fps on decent hardware and modest graphic settings (Gothic 3) or think I'm supposed to enjoy robotic combat with lame stock sounds in between holding W+Shift through a featureless world of gold and brown and gray (Morrowind).
Sega didn't fall into this trap so easily with Phantasy Star 1&4, because they were mainly arcade people. Dynamix scored a hit with Betrayal at Krondor, as did Spiderweb with Exile and Black Isle with Fallout, because they were actual computer game people. Their knowledge, experience, and care about the human-to-computer interface lent their games a certain touch, without which many competing RPGs and equally complex games suffer greatly.
Though a full course on the subject is beyond me or this post, it really helps when the game is smooth and reasonably paced and actions feel as natural to you as to the characters.
No RPG in the last decade has nailed both of them, and few have come close. I've watched so many promising real-time and turn-based games turn out bland, sluggish, unpolished, complicated, absurdly stacked towards the enemy, or some combination thereof. I believe I've found the root of that problem.
Half of these RPGs aren't designed for the computer, the console, or any other electronic device. They're designed for the tabletop, by tabletop people who know or care more about fantasy worlds and fantasy stories than about computer games or even games in general; CD Projekt, Troika, SSI, and early Square-Enix come readily to mind.
The other half are from the sim types like Piranha Bytes and post-Daggerfall Bethesda, who are so lost in delivering a realistic fantasy life experience that they'll let the framerate drop to 10fps on decent hardware and modest graphic settings (Gothic 3) or think I'm supposed to enjoy robotic combat with lame stock sounds in between holding W+Shift through a featureless world of gold and brown and gray (Morrowind).
Sega didn't fall into this trap so easily with Phantasy Star 1&4, because they were mainly arcade people. Dynamix scored a hit with Betrayal at Krondor, as did Spiderweb with Exile and Black Isle with Fallout, because they were actual computer game people. Their knowledge, experience, and care about the human-to-computer interface lent their games a certain touch, without which many competing RPGs and equally complex games suffer greatly.
Though a full course on the subject is beyond me or this post, it really helps when the game is smooth and reasonably paced and actions feel as natural to you as to the characters.
No RPG can be perfect. I found that Shadowrun for both the SNES and genesis to be a nice change of pace for the most part. Also, the weapon of choice is guns.CmdrGoob post=9.73163.788640 said:
The SNES version does use the amnesia thing as a plot point for starting the game, in a morgue. It's not the best way to start a game, but the end doesn't involve you saving the world.
The genesis version is even better at this, because it starts with a murder investigation. It's also the the most to the tabletop rules of the time version of Shadowrun, and is better than the new 360/PC game.
And here are my (JRPG) cliches I like not to see:
(disclaimer: I acknowledge the strength of cliches. The reason they are used so much is not because they are so easy, but because they are so simple & strong)
- Everyone and their dogs are orphans... alright, maybe with 1 person in the entire story it would work, but there are games that suited the name 'interworldly orphan convention'. It's refreshing to hear "my father's a merchant but I don't like to take over the family business" from the hero once in a while
- Empire = evil, Rebels = good... well maybe this one isn't that annoying, but it is a cliche
- religion = bad, as in holding back the truth or the solution or whatever
- Grownups -> die, teenagers -> live. This one is annoying in my book, as it makes important emotional parts predictable... the older you are in the game, the higher the chance you die an early death
- Overworld battles, random battles, exp-gain battles. Call m what you will. The filler of the game... But it has NOTHING to do with the story! If part of the story was that the entire world was attacked by monstrous creatures then fine, but usually... This is why I love those Turn Based Strategy games, at least there every battle is a major plot point...
- Collecting the 3/4/5/6 stones of destiny. There are other reasons why I would travel the world
- Dungeons. I don't like a dungeon every continent/country/stoneofdestiny. Combination of 2 above points
-Fighting with only part of your team I will love the game that allows me to beat the final endboss with all 8 instead of 4 of my party... "and now all together guys"
-People complaining about JRPGs This gets so tiresome, but there doesn't seem to be an end to it
if a fairy made me pick one that would actually be removed... I guess I'd go for the grownups -> die, teenagers -> live, annoys me the most
(disclaimer: I acknowledge the strength of cliches. The reason they are used so much is not because they are so easy, but because they are so simple & strong)
- Everyone and their dogs are orphans... alright, maybe with 1 person in the entire story it would work, but there are games that suited the name 'interworldly orphan convention'. It's refreshing to hear "my father's a merchant but I don't like to take over the family business" from the hero once in a while
- Empire = evil, Rebels = good... well maybe this one isn't that annoying, but it is a cliche
- religion = bad, as in holding back the truth or the solution or whatever
- Grownups -> die, teenagers -> live. This one is annoying in my book, as it makes important emotional parts predictable... the older you are in the game, the higher the chance you die an early death
- Overworld battles, random battles, exp-gain battles. Call m what you will. The filler of the game... But it has NOTHING to do with the story! If part of the story was that the entire world was attacked by monstrous creatures then fine, but usually... This is why I love those Turn Based Strategy games, at least there every battle is a major plot point...
- Collecting the 3/4/5/6 stones of destiny. There are other reasons why I would travel the world
- Dungeons. I don't like a dungeon every continent/country/stoneofdestiny. Combination of 2 above points
-Fighting with only part of your team I will love the game that allows me to beat the final endboss with all 8 instead of 4 of my party... "and now all together guys"
-People complaining about JRPGs This gets so tiresome, but there doesn't seem to be an end to it
if a fairy made me pick one that would actually be removed... I guess I'd go for the grownups -> die, teenagers -> live, annoys me the most
I don't know, I gave that game a miss when people canned it for having bad camera and controls. I though it was more like you're trying to be the ultimate evil guy trying to take over the world, which is still the same basic RPG plot idea except the other way around. Whereas I was going for more of a fantasy Godfather type thing. You wouldn't be killing everyone, just your enemiestobyornottoby post=9.73163.788869 said:
Tolken rip offs. Its done, alright. The Elf, Dwarf, Human triangle has been done to death! Seriously, come up with own setting.
Its sad really, in Jade Empire, I was furious when I could only have one party member, sorry Dawn Star, even though you're my best friend, I'm going to abandon you for Sagacious Zu because he can actually hold his own in battle.
Lead female: I love you
Lead Male: Im much to troubled to love you
*kills lead villian*
Lead male: I love you
Lead female dies in his arms, but will appear in ghost form atleast once before the ending cut-scene ends, or the lead male will look into the sky and say her name, and you hear her laugh.
Lead Male: Im much to troubled to love you
*kills lead villian*
Lead male: I love you
Lead female dies in his arms, but will appear in ghost form atleast once before the ending cut-scene ends, or the lead male will look into the sky and say her name, and you hear her laugh.
I think the whole thing with swords vs. guns is that sword fights tend to be much more dramatic and symbolic than gun fights, which isn't to say that gun fights aren't dramatic.
I must say that I really enjoy when guns are incorporated in the "right way". For example, in Luminous Arc (not a great game, I know), the main character is classified as a Rifleman. He has a sword and he's good with it, but the main character's primary weapon is his rifle, and he's really damn good with it.
It's that last part I enjoy the most. Doesn't it make sense that in a world with magic some one would have found a way to project this magic using mechanical means?
One of the reasons I'm looking forward to Fable 2 is that I'd love to see how guns are incorporated. I dream of making my character a kind of highly skilled musketeer. Enemies would tremble at the sound of my gunshot.
I must say that I really enjoy when guns are incorporated in the "right way". For example, in Luminous Arc (not a great game, I know), the main character is classified as a Rifleman. He has a sword and he's good with it, but the main character's primary weapon is his rifle, and he's really damn good with it.
It's that last part I enjoy the most. Doesn't it make sense that in a world with magic some one would have found a way to project this magic using mechanical means?
One of the reasons I'm looking forward to Fable 2 is that I'd love to see how guns are incorporated. I dream of making my character a kind of highly skilled musketeer. Enemies would tremble at the sound of my gunshot.