Poll: Rushing and you

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Catalyst6

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Apr 21, 2010
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I'm curious about everyone's thought on the subject, so I'm going to copy-paste something I wrote for somewhere else. I know most of you play RTSes, but bear with me in case some don't.

EDIT: Everyone seems to be missing my point, so let me repaste my comment from later on here.
"I *know* that it's a strategy. I'm not whining because I think it's OP, going "all in" is a fairly stupid move. I'm not trying to shift the zeitgeist and start an anti-rushing revolution like some kind of Starcraft Che Guevara in a feeble attempt to change the game. I'm just making an observation about the dissonance between what RTSes claim to be and what they actually are."

EDIT EDIT: Thank you for your kind offers, but I really don't want any strategic help. Like I said, the purpose of this isn't to complain about the game, it's to complain about the users.

Anyways, back to the main program.
I hate rushing. It's true.

For those of you who don't play Real Time Strategy (RTS) games, a "rush" is when you dump every resource into making a group of your most basic offensive unit and "rush" it into the opponent's base. The idea is to get the units in before he has a chance to build something to repel them. This applies in most RTSes, but Starcraft made it famous with the Zerg rush, since the Zerg have quick-building units called zerglings that are basically paper with claws. The lings could be run into the enemy base and cause havoc if they weren't repelled. Nowadays I think that Protoss is more infamous for it with the Zealot rush.

Before someone starts calling "noob" on me, yes, I know that I suck at Starcraft. I am simply horrible. Yes, I know that it's relatively easy to repel a rush if you work quickly and skillfully. That's not what I'm talking about.

I've always viewed RTSes as complex thought games in disguise, or as I like to call it, "Exploding Chess". A proper player needs to have an extraordinary sense of awareness and must be able to use everything at his disposal to defeat his enemy. It's really an elegant game, if you look past the gore.

This elegance is what drives me mad about rushing. It's such a barbaric tactic, one that leaves no room for alteration if the plan goes wrong. A proper player would never put every chip into a single hand unless he was positive that he would win, something that a rusher never knows. In short, it's a stupid tactic.

However, that's not the biggest problem. I view it as if a chess player were to simply attack with every single non-pawn he had, regardless of the consequences, in the hope that he might win. Yes, it might occasionally work, but it usually won't and you're a complete dick for even trying. The name of the game is strategy, you're supposed to make a clever, longer-term plan to trick your opponent into letting you win, not simply taking everything you have and throwing it at them. In fact, that is the reason why I like Starcraft: unlike every other RTS, where most of the battles are simply building up the most offensive units and throwing them at each other, SC requires a lot of thought and manipulation. It's the smart man's RTS.

And yet, these rushers defile it, and it drives me mad. I don't care if it's a "legitimate tactic", or if it's "avoidable", it's still utter crap. For all you "normal gamers" who stick to the MW2-alikes, think of rushers as the guy who sprints around knifing everyone. Yes, it works and you could stop him, but he's still a dick for trying.

It's funny. I actually enjoy losing, if I fall victim to a clever plan. For example, I was playing in the beta oh so long ago against a Protoss player. Of course, I was worse at SC then than I am now, an amazing feat of failure, and didn"t keep a unit to watch my base entrance. The player was able to sneak a Gateway (Protoss unit-producing building) into the front of my base and started popping out Zealots, completely unknown to me. By the time I had blocked off my ramp, it was already too late. I got cocky and got screwed. I applauded the man on this cleverness, said "gg", then surrendered. (Note: This wasn't a rush tactic, he had a base building back home).

This is, of course, different than the guy who simply built three gateways and popped out a ton of zealots, destroyed one of my supply depots blocking the ramp (I play Terran, obviously) and overwhelmed my Marines that I had made since I had sunk money into building a factory instead of a thousand marines. I just told that guy to learn how to play a real game and quit.

In short, rushers, screw you.
 

Pearwood

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Mar 24, 2010
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I don't see it as a barbaric tactic, I see it as an extremely effective but more expensive scouting technique. If it works then great, I win but if it doesn't I get to see what you're building and set you back in resources so much you can't afford to just change strategy on the spot. Even in the event of a total failure I see in your base and can counter what I think you'll build based on what I see.
 

Catalyst6

Dapper Fellow
Apr 21, 2010
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Sapient Pearwood said:
I don't see it as a barbaric tactic, I see it as an extremely effective but more expensive scouting technique. If it works then great, I win but if it doesn't I get to see what you're building and set you back in resources so much you can't afford to just change strategy on the spot. Even in the event of a total failure I see in your base and can counter what I think you'll build based on what I see.
When I say "rush" I don't mean "send in ten zerglings", it's more like the people who build three miners and dump the entirety of the rest of their resources into barracks, which then fly to the entrance of your base to start pumping out marines. Or the guy who builds only a couple miners and a forge, then puts as many photon cannons in front of you as possible (no units at all). Gimmicky crap like that.
 

The Austin

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Jul 20, 2009
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I don't understand people who ***** about rushing.
Do you honestly expect me to divide my forces and all that? No! I'm just going to rush the shit out of you, and you are going to like it!

EDIT: For certain people who don't have common sense, this was very clearly sarcastic.
 

Pearwood

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Mar 24, 2010
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Catalyst6 said:
When I say "rush" I don't mean "send in ten zerglings", it's more like the people who build three miners and dump the entirety of the rest of their resources into barracks, which then fly to the entrance of your base to start pumping out marines. Or the guy who builds only a couple miners and a forge, then puts as many photon cannons in front of you as possible (no units at all). Gimmicky crap like that.
Hm I'd send about 20-25 zerglings but only when I have workers sorted, queens can help churn out the eggs to make up for lost time making drones. Cannon rushes I've never actually seen so I can't say. I imagine just fast tech air and bypass the towers altogether?
 

Arkhangelsk

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Mar 1, 2009
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It's an annoying tactic, but only when it comes to trying to win the entire game. What I often do is that I do a regular base build, make Zealots, and send a few to stall him. Destroy one building or two. You can have the most thought out strategy in the world, but for every strategy there's a counter strategy, which makes it a wise move to try to get ahead of the player. It's the cost of a massive RTS. Starcraft II offers many, many, many options on how to defeat your opponent, so many that it's almost scary. But every strategy relies on that you build up the basics. Cripple the basics of the opponent, and your strategy is one step ahead.

Yes, rushing to win directly is annoying. But trying to gain an advantage is legitimate.
 

AnOriginalConcept

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Jan 7, 2010
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Except that that tactic really doesn't work!

You are given about 45 extra seconds before the enemy units reach your base. If you scout, this is more than enough time to build an equivalent number of units and still maintain an economic edge.

You lost that game because you did not scout.
 

silver wolf009

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Jan 23, 2010
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I am opposed to rushing because it makes the fight more like a small battle than the epic battles that i want in an RTS. I want thousands of soilders that litter the battle field with the bodies of thier enemies.
 

Vilcus

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Jun 29, 2009
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I don't exactly hate rushing, I just hate that so many people rely on it, and then I'm forced to curb stomp them as a result. I always prepare for rushing, and if they think they can catch me off guard with a game like "Blah Blah, NO RUSHING" then they are sadly mistaken, because I've had people rage on me when I succesfully deflect their "Unexpected Rush."
 

Wharrgarble

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Jun 22, 2010
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Look at it as a learning experience.

Is it a cheap tactic? Of course it is, but that isn't going to stop anyone from using it. Why? Because against newer players, it's incredibly effective. I'm not the best at Starcraft myself, but I made sure I learned how to repel such an attack and now I no longer have a problem with it. If they try, they'll fail, and since they generally just threw all their chips into one basket, they're behind me on economy and macro which then gives me an edge for the rest of the game.

Rather than let it bother you so much, try instead to come up with a decent counter. It'll probably take you some time to get comfortable with it, but when you do, you can just laugh your way through the pathetic remainder of their forces.
 

teisjm

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Mar 3, 2009
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Well, it's part of the game, so whining about it is basicly a waste of time, cause it's not liek people are gonna play by a set of made-up rules, cause you dislike the strategy they're using.
 

Catalyst6

Dapper Fellow
Apr 21, 2010
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AnOriginalConcept said:
Except that that tactic really doesn't work!

You are given about 45 extra seconds before the enemy units reach your base. If you scout, this is more than enough time to build an equivalent number of units and still maintain an economic edge.

You lost that game because you did not scout.
I repeat: I know that it's easily counterable. I know that I just suck at Starcraft. I'm saying that rushing is bad in principle because it violates the entire idea behind RTSes, the concepts of grand strategy and clever tactics.
 

ShadowKatt

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Mar 19, 2009
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I hate rushing, mostly because I was never any good at it. I used to play with someone who excelled at Starcraft. He had his keyboard mapped, he knew every map, every unit down to how fast they could move so he could time everything to the split second. He could rush anything. Zerglings in one minute, marines in three minutes, zealots in four minutes.

36 carriers in ten minutes

I stopped playing with him. There was absolutely no chance of beating him. Ever.
 

miscelaneous

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Apr 4, 2010
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Sapient Pearwood said:
Catalyst6 said:
When I say "rush" I don't mean "send in ten zerglings", it's more like the people who build three miners and dump the entirety of the rest of their resources into barracks, which then fly to the entrance of your base to start pumping out marines. Or the guy who builds only a couple miners and a forge, then puts as many photon cannons in front of you as possible (no units at all). Gimmicky crap like that.
Hm I'd send about 20-25 zerglings but only when I have workers sorted, queens can help churn out the eggs to make up for lost time making drones. Cannon rushes I've never actually seen so I can't say. I imagine just fast tech air and bypass the towers altogether?
You've never seen a cannon rush? Go play the original!
 

Aerodynamic

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Feb 23, 2009
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Even though I don't play RTS's, I think its a good tactic in FPS, sure it can be a cheap win, but its a win.

Yeah its annoying when it happens to you, but when you succeed with it, its a fun feeling.

"Oh look!I am a scout and We just capped the first point and killed almost all of their team, if I can hurry I can go to the last point and cap it before any one is there!" is what goes on in my head when given an opportunity like that.
 

AnOriginalConcept

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Jan 7, 2010
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Catalyst6 said:
AnOriginalConcept said:
I repeat: I know that it's easily counterable. I know that I just suck at Starcraft. I'm saying that rushing is bad in principle because it violates the entire idea behind RTSes, the concepts of grand strategy and clever tactics.
Again, I disagree. Without the threat of early aggression, there would be no reason not to play a completely economy oriented game.

Rushing IS a clever tactic. Building 2 gateways at the start as Protoss is one of the few ways to keep a Zerg player confined to one base.

Quickly researching the Concussive Shells upgrade and moving out with a force of Marauders can stop a Protoss before they can tech up to Colossi.

A group of speedlings roaming the map can keep an enemy player confined to their base while the Zerg expands.

Rushing is a vital element in Starcraft II.
 

Arkhangelsk

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Mar 1, 2009
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silver wolf009 said:
I am opposed to rushing because it makes the fight more like a small battle than the epic battles that i want in an RTS. I want thousands of soilders that litter the battle field with the bodies of thier enemies.
I want a real war when I play. Sadly, we're only allowed 200 units. I think there should be a game type where you can have up to 500 or something. Just to see the big hoedown of troops, standing in line from east to west. That is the test of a true commander.