But this isn't a case of discrimination. No one said, 'Leave the room whilst we pray.' In fact it's inclusive. It's an invitation to share the experience. The statement 'Prayer shouldn't be seen ANYWHERE outside of private schools.' is far more discriminatory.Small Waves said:
Poll: School District about to Get Sued
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exactly dude. also: i know it's against the law and all, but just because one or two people didn't want to say the prayer, doesn't mean that everyone else shouldn't be allowed to express their faith.bbad89 said:
i mean, i'm atheist, and i know yer man meant well, but this is probably gonna be that classes last chance to be together in one place for a long time- and they wanted to have a chance to pray for everyone's safety and for everyone to get on well in life.even if yer man didn't beleive in god, he could at least given 'em a chance to wish each other luck, ya know?
BUT, the way the school reacted to yer man removing the prayer... 'wince', did it all wrong. makes me want to... ah jesus, i don't know which one to agree with!
I didn't liken listening to a school-sanctioned prayer to a history of slavery and racism. I likened it to walking a few more feet for a drink of water. As for a proper comparison, atheists have a long history of being shunned, denied basic rights, arrested and murdered for their lack of faith. People don't talk about it because discrimination against atheism has always been acceptable even by people opposing religious intolerance.beniki said:
It's perfectly legal and perfectly fine for their to be prayer in school, so long as it isn't mandatory. suck it up kid, there are worse things in life than sitting/standing through a prayer during your graduation.Mcmuffin said:
Denied basic human rights, arrested, and murdered for their lack of faith. When? I'm honestly curious, because I can't recall a single incident when Atheists were the target of discrimination. I'm sure it happened all the time in the Mid-eval era and before that, but in modern history?sunburst313 said:
If it's an individual doing it, why the hell not, if it's a group, than that's different. I'm not sure why this guy is making such a big deal, he could just not pray, but w/e.
Torcaso v. Watkins [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torcaso_v._Watkins]: Maryland tried to revoke the appointment of a notary public because he refused to declare a belief in the existence of god. The case was appealed all the way to the US Supreme Court because Maryland courts continually ruled in favor of the law.spartan231490 said:
It was of course unconstitutional but such laws were common until the late 19th century. Several states technically still have them even today. And some idiots actually attempted to invoke one a couple years ago. [http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/14/critics-say-atheist-nc-city-councilman-unworthy-seat/] But they only did it to make him look bad. Because he's an atheist.
No arrests or murders in the news in the last century or so. Atheists have definitely had it much better than ethnic minorities in modern times.
If its forced and publicly endorsed by a federal institution, then no. It's breaking the law. They can take a moment of silence but thats about it. You want to pray during the moment of silence? Well, fine, do it.
There is what is called "The Seperation of Church and State", and it is considered illigal to conduct anything religious within (for example) an Educational Facility. This man is very brave, but he also has the government behind his back 100%. They are not aloud to hold any type of prayers, even if they have been doing it for a 100 years since they were a wooden shed, Thomas Jefferson predates them and he wrote the Seperation to the Baptists long before.
Also from a personal stand point? It is EXTREMELY wrong to present any type of religious ideals within a school anyways. A child or teen should develop their own ideals, not be influenced by the ideals of where they have grown, that is borderline conversion and it sickens me.
Also from a personal stand point? It is EXTREMELY wrong to present any type of religious ideals within a school anyways. A child or teen should develop their own ideals, not be influenced by the ideals of where they have grown, that is borderline conversion and it sickens me.
Wow, I shall pray in school Monday just to prove a point!!!! And i go to a relatively Jewish majority school...I'll be so bad ass >
and have a good cause!
and have a good cause!
To have prayer in public, tax-payer funded schools is to endorse religion. This extends to anyone employed the school leading a formal prayer within a classroom context. A government body, and thus its branches and services, is not in the business of placing one form of thought or reasoning above another, beyond that which can be proven/not proven by scientific and academic means.
Even if a moment of prayer was all-inclusive, donating prayer rugs from Muslim students and other props, it is still placing a moment of importance on theistic belief, and in doing so placing it above non-theistic thought. This is not a war of personal comfort on either side, but of principle. Even if no one is hurt or offended by an action, we aspire to a federal system of placing all ideologies and backgrounds on even footing.
Even if a moment of prayer was all-inclusive, donating prayer rugs from Muslim students and other props, it is still placing a moment of importance on theistic belief, and in doing so placing it above non-theistic thought. This is not a war of personal comfort on either side, but of principle. Even if no one is hurt or offended by an action, we aspire to a federal system of placing all ideologies and backgrounds on even footing.
I only get upset when I'm told I have to pray like everyone else. I believe in something, a god and a goddess and have a different prayer. My sister gets upset because she's not quite an atheist but she doesn't believe in a god. She believes we as humans use our own power to shape the world as we know it. Basically we're team gurren and that's how we roll philosophy.
the question "is it ok to pray in school" of course it fucking is?
Something I hear a lot is how Atheists are so oppressed. (i'm not religious by the way I'm an atheist too) we're fine? but we (like every other belief) need to shut the hell up every now and again because its making mountains out of molehills!
just one big resounding SHUT UP to all sides really. To each their own for crying out loud...
Something I hear a lot is how Atheists are so oppressed. (i'm not religious by the way I'm an atheist too) we're fine? but we (like every other belief) need to shut the hell up every now and again because its making mountains out of molehills!
just one big resounding SHUT UP to all sides really. To each their own for crying out loud...
