Poll: School District about to Get Sued
- Thread starter Mcmuffin
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In Greece prayer is mandatory, for some reason. I never attend though. I enter when it's over and we go up to our classes. I believe the guy did the right thing.
Oh and whoever posted this, thank you, you just made me procrastinate for 5 hours, because that page linked to another page and that other page linked me somewhere else etc. I ended up reading stoner comics on 4chan!
Oh and whoever posted this, thank you, you just made me procrastinate for 5 hours, because that page linked to another page and that other page linked me somewhere else etc. I ended up reading stoner comics on 4chan!
As long as it isn't mandated by the school itself, or your own prayer ceremony doesn't involve killing something I have no problem with prayer in school. But this specific instance is a case of the former so yeah, I kinda have a problem with it.
There's a myriad of reasons to be against public school in prayers, and just as many for as well. However, this argument doesn't strike me as particularly effective. I, for example, went to a school were someone lead a prayer, yet no one was forced to do it. You were only forced to adopt a 'prayerful attitude', which is to say assume a reverent and silent tone for a few moments while the prayer was lead; if not for your own individual beliefs, than out of respect for the beliefs of others.Mcmuffin said:
The example of a Christian graduating from a school with Muslim prayer at the end of the ceremony is equally flawed. A true Christian would be highly respective of tradition at work and, while they may or may not physically participate, would definitely not call for Muslim prayer to be ended at that particular school. Now this is not to say I'm 100 percent in support of prayer in schools, I'm just saying the 'federal courts have struck it down' argument is much more effective than the one quoted above.
May I suggest you rewrite your poll question or include more options. As it stands while I write this it is asking whether prayer is permissible in schools. But from your opening post I think you are trying to ask whether public schools should sanction prayer.
My take on the situation is that any public school may not endorse any religion by including prayer. However, the students are perfectly within their rights to pray if they so wish. I find it hard to sympathize with the guy when if it were a Muslim or other "minority" religious prayer the ACLU would be crying just as loudly if not louder that we shouldn't dare infringe on their religious freedoms.
My take on the situation is that any public school may not endorse any religion by including prayer. However, the students are perfectly within their rights to pray if they so wish. I find it hard to sympathize with the guy when if it were a Muslim or other "minority" religious prayer the ACLU would be crying just as loudly if not louder that we shouldn't dare infringe on their religious freedoms.
A Public School is not allowed to endorse religion. A Public school is not allowed to lead in prayer, it is in the states laws and its in Federal laws, is it hard for people to understand? and again.Ultratwinkie said:
http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa070100a.htm
http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa070100a.htm#when
I go to a Jewish school and we do have Christians in it. We have a half hour prayers evey morning and you have to attend but you don't have to pray. The teachers respect those who are atheist or Chrstian. If the majority of the school was Christian or it was a CHRISTIAN school ie they did Bible studies or what not, then he was wrong. It depends on how "Christian" the school is. And American law is stupid, just a fact.
What I love is all the atheists bitching about how the religious people are forcing their beliefs on them, so they turn around and try to push a law through preventing the religious from practicing their religion. So basically it's unacceptable for someone else to tell them what to do, but totally okay for them to tell someone else what to do. I'd like to shoot these fucking hypocrites in the head with a 12-gauge shotgun.
Now as for the actual issue - okay, now I agree, a school really shouldn't be pushing a prayer over on its student body, fair enough. Moment of silence in which the individual can do as they please, fine, prayer, probably not. But you know, making a big deal out of it and getting the ACLU and the government involved is fucking overkill for something that really doesn't matter.
You'd think a functioning human that was secure in their own beliefs could just sit there respectfully for thirty seconds and let the religious say a few brief words, but this guy is apparently not that. He's an immature little kid who can't stand it that other people have different opinions from him and therefor tries to force his beliefs on them under the defense that they're forcing their beliefs on them. He is creating far more of a problem than the one that already exists.
I guess it's also worth pointing out that the Constitution (since he brought it up) also guarantees that Congress cannot make a law preventing someone from practicing their religion, so his defense doesn't hold up on that basis either.
Now why don't we just have a "moment of silence" like I suggested and everyone can stop accusing everyone else of pushing their beliefs while they do the same thing.
Now as for the actual issue - okay, now I agree, a school really shouldn't be pushing a prayer over on its student body, fair enough. Moment of silence in which the individual can do as they please, fine, prayer, probably not. But you know, making a big deal out of it and getting the ACLU and the government involved is fucking overkill for something that really doesn't matter.
You'd think a functioning human that was secure in their own beliefs could just sit there respectfully for thirty seconds and let the religious say a few brief words, but this guy is apparently not that. He's an immature little kid who can't stand it that other people have different opinions from him and therefor tries to force his beliefs on them under the defense that they're forcing their beliefs on them. He is creating far more of a problem than the one that already exists.
I guess it's also worth pointing out that the Constitution (since he brought it up) also guarantees that Congress cannot make a law preventing someone from practicing their religion, so his defense doesn't hold up on that basis either.
Now why don't we just have a "moment of silence" like I suggested and everyone can stop accusing everyone else of pushing their beliefs while they do the same thing.
It was a dick thing to sue the school but its about time something happen. When I was in primary school we had to say pray after the pledge of allegiance with the whole under god deal there(Which isn't even in the original poem it was added in the 50's!). Oh and after I got off of school the bus would drop me off at church were a lady would hand out fliers and pamphlets and little booklets about god. After getting home Jehovah witness would knock on our door. I understand peoples right to religion but what about my right not to be brainwashed into it form day one of school.
It is ok as long as no one is forcing you and there are no retribution for not doing it.
I live in Israel FFS we started studying the old testament from the 3rd grade till the 8th- i have no participated in 1 class. i took my time when i was 16 to read and study (LIKE any other book ) the old and new testament.
Im and atheist
Im not anti religion, IMO in a society torn apart from the inside everyone should have something to believe in (i believe in science and other people), i do think everyone has the right to practice any religion, if they choose so.
Im sorry to say this (i feel like im throwing sh*t at a fan) but Atheism is degrading and is forming sects, and its own extremists, its becoming a whole new mainstream religion.
1 simple rule; never force your opinion on anyone else no matter how right they seem to be.
I live in Israel FFS we started studying the old testament from the 3rd grade till the 8th- i have no participated in 1 class. i took my time when i was 16 to read and study (LIKE any other book ) the old and new testament.
Im and atheist
Im not anti religion, IMO in a society torn apart from the inside everyone should have something to believe in (i believe in science and other people), i do think everyone has the right to practice any religion, if they choose so.
Im sorry to say this (i feel like im throwing sh*t at a fan) but Atheism is degrading and is forming sects, and its own extremists, its becoming a whole new mainstream religion.
1 simple rule; never force your opinion on anyone else no matter how right they seem to be.
It's too bad there aren't any buildings specifically designed for people to go and make wishes to an invisible man who lives in the sky.
The Justices and others who have shaped this aspect of US law into how it is today have been mostly religious and predominantly Christian, actually, going back to Thomas Jefferson.Dense_Electric said:
I think you should take a closer look at the Establishment Clause and the legal precedents surrounding it. It is as much for the protection of Christians just as much as it is for Jews, Muslims and Atheists.
Have a read and educate yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_prayer#Controversy_in_United_States
And your tone doesn't sound very compassionate and Christian, btw. WWJD? Well, He wouldn't 'shoot these fucking hypocrites in the head with a 12-gauge shotgun' for starters.
Absolutely agreed. People need to frikkin relax, whether they are Christian, Muslim, athiest, or whatever. Should prayer be required in public school? No. Should prayer be allowed? Why the hell not?AmrasCalmacil said:
As long as they ain't Nazis or scientologists, I don't see why you can't express your beliefs publicly.
(predictable joke is predictable)
(predictable joke is predictable)
It does not matter if the majority is christian in a PUBLIC SCHOOL, they do not get their way.Dense_Electric said:
The laws that you laugh at are setup to Prevent Discrimination against those who do not follow the Majority's views. No law as been passed like that. No Atheist pushes laws that make you stop praying in private or in churches/ temples. Stop making stuff up.
He did not get the government involved he pointed out that in his state he practice is no legal.
He is not immature for standing up for the law, unlike you who can not even make an argument, instead just throwing out insults.
He is not forcing his lack of beliefs, The law is on his side.
You are in fact a bigot(you are adhering to your own prejudices and options. ie crying about laws that do not conform to your world view.) , and discrimination against Atheist should not be tolerated, yet it is.
This is no different then any other minority standing up for their rights, unless discrimination against those who are Atheists is ok, and again it is not.
Because Public schools are not allowed to endorse a single religion is that hard to understand?Metal Brother said:
If they don't mention a specific prophet then it should be completely acceptable. The term "God" refers to a singular deity, not Jesus, Muhammad, or any other religious figure. The majority of religious folks are part of a religion that is monotheistic, thus they praise a singular figure, referred to as God, which is why the phrase "One nation under God" is allowed to remain in the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools. Many people hear "pray" and think Christianity, but the act of praying is simply offering thanks to, or asking something of, your God, who/whatever it may be.
To offer another point, no one is forcing you to pray. If you don't believe there's a bearded man in the sky then don't talk to him. If you're firm in your beliefs then everyone else praying shouldn't bother you at all. Let people believe what they want.
The Valedictorian speech is a different issue. They're not employed by the state, school, or government, nor is school in session while their speech is being given. As such they are more than welcome to thank, or praise whoever they like during their speech. You may not agree with what they say, but, again, no one is forcing you to agree. If their speech is (or seems) to be offensive, or abusive towards a group you are a part of (in this case atheists) then it is a matter to be brought up with the person, not the school district.
To offer another point, no one is forcing you to pray. If you don't believe there's a bearded man in the sky then don't talk to him. If you're firm in your beliefs then everyone else praying shouldn't bother you at all. Let people believe what they want.
The Valedictorian speech is a different issue. They're not employed by the state, school, or government, nor is school in session while their speech is being given. As such they are more than welcome to thank, or praise whoever they like during their speech. You may not agree with what they say, but, again, no one is forcing you to agree. If their speech is (or seems) to be offensive, or abusive towards a group you are a part of (in this case atheists) then it is a matter to be brought up with the person, not the school district.