Poll: School District about to Get Sued

[magicmonkeybars]

I think within the context of the graduation ceremony it's wrong and inappropriate.
Prayer shouldn't be part of a secular school's activities.
How many of those christians would be willing to be part of a satanic rite while graduating ?

 

[Bags159]

My reasoning behind it is that it?s emotionally stressing on anyone who isn?t Christian.

Really?
Praying isn't emotionally stressing at all, if you don't believe then it's no more than saying lyrics to a song or a poem.
As an atheist myself, build a bridge and get over it.

Yeah, it's not emotionally stressing at all to be "that guy". Nothing like being the only kid out of hundreds to not pray.

Man this stuff always gets on my nerves a bit. If there are people who do not wish to pray at graduation or at school that's fine, but for those that do want to pray they should be allowed. This kid did the right thing by raising awareness, but should have left it as a choice then, that is to say those who want to pray should be allowed to and if he/she, and others, do not wish to they don't have to. Now a bigger can of political/religious tension has opened up since the school now cannot have a prayer. So yeah, good job on raising awareness, but having the school pull the prayer for everyone presents problems for those wish to.

But it's not legal for schools to hold / encourage / support prayer.

 

[odd function]

My thoughts? Why should I care? If I was an atheist I still wouldnt give the slightest damn if people started praying, its none of my business, its just tradition, so Im just all like "whatever, I shouldnt care"

The trouble is not only the whole captive audience angle, but also the fact that schools do their best to create a group identity for the students. They call it a variety of things like school pride, but ultimately they creating a members/non-members environment in the school and clearly supporting one team over another. Americans wouldn't tolerate it if it was any other religion, why should anybody be asked to tolerate it if it is christianity?

As an aside, it isn't "just a tradition" and few things are. Words and actions have meaning. By the second grade I new that there was a vast gulf between reality and America's supposed ideals, because we were asked to "pledge allegiance" in class. Even in cases where you were allowed to not do the ceremony (frighteningly rare) there was still intense pressure to conform, and it wasn't like you were left alone to do your own thing (like read) during that time.

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

Man this stuff always gets on my nerves a bit. If there are people who do not wish to pray at graduation or at school that's fine, but for those that do want to pray they should be allowed. This kid did the right thing by raising awareness, but should have left it as a choice then, that is to say those who want to pray should be allowed to and if he/she, and others, do not wish to they don't have to. Now a bigger can of political/religious tension has opened up since the school now cannot have a prayer. So yeah, good job on raising awareness, but having the school pull the prayer for everyone presents problems for those wish to.

If it was individual students praying on their own, from their seats, i would agree with you. But a group prayer led from the stage is an entirely different matter. Even if it's a student leading the prayer, if it's from the stage, it has become a school sponsored prayer, and is therefore unConstitutional for a US public school. Again, i'm a Christian, not an atheist, so i'm not against prayer, but i am for the law, and especially for the separation of church and state.

What really amazes me is how many "Christians" forget that the separation of church and state was designed to protect Christians originally, but has extended in principle to other religions and to atheists.

 

[babinro]

The act of prayer in and of itself is completely harmless and acts as a stress reliever for some. There's no reason to restrict prayer to certain locations only.

Forcing people to take part though is just wrong though and seems contrary to the intended benefits of prayer to begin with.

 

[Snotnarok]

It's the same thing as another story I saw. This group insisted that if evolution was going to be taught it had to be taught along with "Creationism" and all textbooks that had evolution it, had to have a disclaimer reading:

"Evolution is a theory, not a fact, and students are encouraged to make their own conclusion"

And religious citizens attacked evolution being taught saying "it's a theory and there's no proof that makes it a fact and there never will be proof" Yeeeeeeeeeet there is proof. Yet a combination of denial, not being up to date with facts, brought up a meeting in the county where they had to put the disclaimer in text books about evolution being a theory.

 

[EvilPicnic]

Man this stuff always gets on my nerves a bit. If there are people who do not wish to pray at graduation or at school that's fine, but for those that do want to pray they should be allowed.

Those that want to pray can still pray, as long as it is a private prayer. That is the purpose of times of silence and reflection at these events.

For a prayer to be lead aloud from stage a) implies the schools endorsement, and b) can lead to pressure to conform and join in when individuals may not want to. That is why it is unconstitutional in the US.

 

[Spartan448]

Thinking from a moral prespective, the guy in the article would not have a good reason to to this. But let's consider the circumstances:

Graduation is a school function, and is sometimes mandatory. Even if it isn't, Graduation is an important ceremony in a kid's life. Missing it would definately be a blow to their morale in the future. So he either attends and has to pray to a god he doesn't believe in, or miss a once-in-a-lifetime ceremony.

Now, from a legal standpoint, this kid is in the right. Seeing as it's against State law, the school is in the wrong, as are the people who are trying to get it put back into the ceremony. If I were that kid, I would've just sued, or contacted the State and the ACLU about the school breaking the law, and watched the punishment ensue. I would have prefered suing, though. More money that way.

Freedom of Religion is fine, but not when your idea of "freedom of religion", is freedom to force your religion upon other people, in an environment where, even if it wasn't forced, it would be against the United States Constitution anyway, as it results in a violation of the seperation of Church and State.

 

[Bags159]

It's the same thing as another story I saw. This group insisted that if evolution was going to be taught it had to be taught along with "Creationism" and all textbooks that had evolution it, had to have a disclaimer reading:

"Evolution is a theory, not a fact, and students are encouraged to make their own conclusion"

And religious citizens attacked evolution being taught saying "it's a theory and there's no proof that makes it a fact and there never will be proof" Yeeeeeeeeeet there is proof. Yet a combination of denial, not being up to date with facts, brought up a meeting in the county where they had to put the disclaimer in text books about evolution being a theory.

Well, almost everything in science is a theory, so using that logic a lot of things should be taught with disclaimers. But in the scientific community if something is a theory it's pretty much accepted as a fact for all intents and purposes.

The difference between creationism and evolution is evolution actually has supporting evidence.

I feel bad for that county.

 

[FireCoroner]

I'm not one of those angry athiests, but I wish religion would just stop imposing on humankind. I would consider myself a good and decent person, and it's not because I believe there is a man in the sky, like some kind of superjudge, punishing the guilty and rewarding the good.

I'm Irish and was reared Catholic, so I know a lot about guilt, but the whole religion thing seemed to fall apart for me from an early age.
Even back then it seemed too.... convenient.

But my biggest gripe with religion is that it negates scientific advancements. It may sound naive and childish,but I want the future to be futuristic and tolerant for my children's children and not for the human race to be scared and blindly follow arbitrary rules laid out by something that probably does not exist.

DO YOUR DUTY NOW FOR THE FUTURE!
(maybe I am an angry athiest?)

 

[Kraj]

Either absolute of prayer is fine or no prayer at all seems to be pretentious and conceited.
I like the idea of "pray or don't, we don't care"

 

[Biodeamon]

they have churches for that stuff. students shouldn't be wasting school hours on that rubbish.

 

[Oinodaemon]

What an ass. (The guy in the article, not the OP) Why would he care if people around him prayed? It's not like he was being forced to, they just have a prayer in the ceremony. That doesn't mean you have to pray too.

right on dude, i was just about to say pretty much the same thing

 

[JJMUG]

The ignorance of the law is well not astounding, as long as the religious can keep trying to deny the law about praying in a PUBLIC SCHOOL. It is always so nice to see people discriminate against Atheists, keep it up the majority rules right?

 

[Snotnarok]

It's the same thing as another story I saw. This group insisted that if evolution was going to be taught it had to be taught along with "Creationism" and all textbooks that had evolution it, had to have a disclaimer reading:

"Evolution is a theory, not a fact, and students are encouraged to make their own conclusion"

And religious citizens attacked evolution being taught saying "it's a theory and there's no proof that makes it a fact and there never will be proof" Yeeeeeeeeeet there is proof. Yet a combination of denial, not being up to date with facts, brought up a meeting in the county where they had to put the disclaimer in text books about evolution being a theory.

Well, almost everything in science is a theory, so using that logic a lot of things should be taught with disclaimers. But in the scientific community if something is a theory it's pretty much accepted as a fact for all intents and purposes.

The difference between creationism and evolution is evolution actually has supporting evidence.

I feel bad for that county.

Cobb county, I dunno if it's easy to find, they covered it in a episode of Bullshit! and it really was making me roll my head on my desk. It's worth a watch.

No offense to anyone who's religious out there, but no amount of faith will make me believe the Earth was created in 6 days, or it's only 6,000 years old, because it wasn't and it isn't.

 

[RoBi3.0]

In the United States the constitution grant a very clear separation of Church and state. Therefor institutions that except funding from the government should stay as far away from religion as possible.

I had a discussion with a individual once about why pray in school shouldn't be allowed. They were like it doesn't hurt anyone if we pray to god before school. To that I simply said fine then we should extend that right to every religious belief. Would you be perfectly okay if a group of students wanted to gather before school and pray to Satan? To that they replied no that would be extremely offensive to them and shouldn't be allowed. I thanked them for proving my point.

My point being it should be all or nothing and since most major religions directly oppose another (Christians vs the church of Satan ect..) it can and never will be a situation were all are welcome therefor it has to be none at all.

My opinions of course

 

[EvilPicnic]

I still can't get over how cruel the teacher was, trashing him in the paper. That's horribly unprofessional, and actually quite cruel. Especially as he's legally within his rights.

What wonderfully compassionate Christian values she displays...

 

[Mathak]

What d'you wanna bet that when it comes to the right to own enough guns to hunt everything bigger than a rabbit into extinction those 'christians' are suddenly experts on and violent defenders of the constitution?

 

[TheDist]

Man this stuff always gets on my nerves a bit. If there are people who do not wish to pray at graduation or at school that's fine, but for those that do want to pray they should be allowed.

Those that want to pray can still pray, as long as it is a private prayer. That is the purpose of times of silence and reflection at these events.

For a prayer to be lead aloud from stage a) implies the schools endorsement, and b) can lead to pressure to conform and join in when individuals may not want to. That is why it is unconstitutional in the US.

Been said a lot and is always worth saying, as quoted above there are good reasons why it is deemed unconstitutional in the USA.

Had they been saying it to allah instead of yahweh I bet there would be rage of a diffrent sort, how about odin? Or even the flying spaghetti monster?

Freedom of religion goes very much with freedom FROM religion. Don't force any of it on anyone and we'll all get along a lot better.

 

[bob-2000]

No, of course not. Leaning about a wide array of religions is good, but having to accept any one of them is wrong.