Poll: Send Your Troops Home, America

[Eldarion]

I'd really like to see what would happen if America closed its bases in all foreign countries and brough ALL troops home-- it has been estimated that closing only foreign bases (and not cutting the size of the US military) would save us americans between 1\2 to 1 trillion dollars per year by simply not having to operate with a grid of military installations spread around the planet.

According to the Defense Department's annual "Base Structure Report" for fiscal year 2003, which itemizes foreign and domestic U.S. military real estate, the Pentagon currently owns or rents 702 overseas bases in about 130 countries...

Many of the countries do not have functional standing armies. In many cases, the mere presence of the united states military could be establishing and maintaining peace and stability in that region-- the bases were often established originally to make the area safe for american investment and commerce-- but arguably peace and stability is a good thing no matter where you are.

But we're broke, and we're Renting. We are paying foreign countries or have paid foreign countries for the privilege of maintaining their peace and security overseas.

Chances are, if you are posting on this website and are not american, there are american troops stationed in your country. Do you want them to leave? Do you know they are there? Do you think they are keeping a lid on things in your country, or preventing (or have prevented) something worse from establishing itself in your back yard? Finally, if you want them in your country, would you be willing to let your government pay the rent to keep the base open and staffed?

Americans, please click the "i am american" option on the poll.

Ok I see you have some good points here.

I think that bringing them out of stable countries (like japan) couldn't hurt us.

I support the war in the middle east though.

 

[ottenni]

Wheres the option of i dont mind if they are in my country but i cant speak for the other 129 countries?

 

[T3h Camp3r T3rr0r1st]

every one else won your civil war (tee hee)

What does that even mean?

yet another child lest behind...

Americans were killing Americans how can the world not win (!)

[sub]Avast, my asshat senses are tingling![/sub]

I'm going to assume that you aren't very fond of America. I'm also going to assume that you aren't very well educated.

I was making a point

 

[BrownGaijin]

So from what I can tell the argument is because we Americans (si, yo tambien soy un Americano), are strapped for cash, we should close down bases.

While I understand the need to save a dollar, I think there are cases where the need to have American troops in many given areas out weigh the cost (i.e. protecting our interests abroad).

 

[Lexodus]

Actually, I was pointing at war in general. And the dude above who said that it was America's land, despite being in another country with its own government.

Oh. Well. I took your post completely wrong, then. My apologies.

Accepted
I'm a pacifist at heart, even though I joke around, and the war in the middle east is just a war of greed, which is even worse than a normal one.
Well, greed for America, and we went in because Blair made Britain America's *****.

 

[chronobreak]

yet another child lest behind...

Americans were killing Americans how can the world not win (!)

Right, well, hope you enjoyed your time on The Escapist.

I would be more than happy to tell you. And I see no disrespect in you questioning me openly.

Let's start this off by talking about the planes. The planes were NOT commercial airlines, it was, in fact, a Military aircraft, and could have possibly been flown by no one (remotely). Some ways of telling is how there are no windows on the side. Commercial planes have windows, military do not. Also, it would have been infuriatingly more difficult to maneuver a commercial plane like a military plane.

Now, explosions: When a plane crashes into a giant tower, explosions don't just go off at the bottom of said tower, there has to be, what most refer to as, "Explosives." How did they get there? I'm saying it was planted by the U.S.

And, Motives: What else is there to say other than O I L . It was obvious we were running out, and it was obvious the Middle East had a bunch of it. So, Bush said something along the lines of, "Hmmm, I can't think of a reason to invade, so let's make one up!" Now, we have been there FAR too long, and there is virtually no reason we should be there, other than to anger more people, or to bring democracy, but I don't think guns will be necessary for that.

Now, I hope you can keep an open mind, and also consider how hard it is to hijack a plane, even before 9/11.

EDIT: And, yes, you could say I am "flaming America" (figuratively), after all, our society is so..... bad...... Disney Channel; MTV; huge ego's..... SCENE KIDS!!!

Need I say more?

So, what about the passengers? They just... disappeared? People witnessed them getting on a plane at the airport, those planes never arriving because they hit buildings, how could that be "covered up"? All the employees of the airlines, the witnesses, the families, all in on it, for oil? Are you sure the most rational explanation isn't a religious extremist with an agenda against our governemnt planning an orchestrated attack?

Where do you get there being explosives? Where are the direct, unaltered quotes? What about electrical explosions that were going off? Also the rivets popping out of steel?

I dunno man, you are entitled to believe what you want, I'm not gonna trash you for it, but I can't buy into it myself. There is certainly not enough concrete evidence from your side of the fence.

 

[T3h Camp3r T3rr0r1st]

yet another child lest behind...

Americans were killing Americans how can the world not win (!)

Right, well, hope you enjoyed your time on The Escapist.

-snip-

aww thanks!

 

[Bertinan]

Uh, first, I know for a fact that some of the host countries are paying for some of those bases. I don't remember how many, but I do know at least South Korea pays for it. Second, Some of the bases are through treaties maintained with the governments of those countries.

Also, even if we did completely withdraw, people would hate us for that too. They'd blame us for destroying the economies of the region we left, just like they blame us for anything else they fail at doing. After all, it's never YOUR fault, always America's, no? I'm surprised Europe hasn't started blaming us for both world wars, since they like to blame us for any other of their failures.

I also doubt that trillion dollar figure, as well. Maybe if we completely stopped all military expenditures, then yeah, that makes sense. Just closing the bases? I doubt it.

 

[HassEsser]

Spoiler: Lot's of stuff

yet another child lest behind...

Americans were killing Americans how can the world not win (!)

Right, well, hope you enjoyed your time on The Escapist.

I would be more than happy to tell you. And I see no disrespect in you questioning me openly.

Let's start this off by talking about the planes. The planes were NOT commercial airlines, it was, in fact, a Military aircraft, and could have possibly been flown by no one (remotely). Some ways of telling is how there are no windows on the side. Commercial planes have windows, military do not. Also, it would have been infuriatingly more difficult to maneuver a commercial plane like a military plane.

Now, explosions: When a plane crashes into a giant tower, explosions don't just go off at the bottom of said tower, there has to be, what most refer to as, "Explosives." How did they get there? I'm saying it was planted by the U.S.

And, Motives: What else is there to say other than O I L . It was obvious we were running out, and it was obvious the Middle East had a bunch of it. So, Bush said something along the lines of, "Hmmm, I can't think of a reason to invade, so let's make one up!" Now, we have been there FAR too long, and there is virtually no reason we should be there, other than to anger more people, or to bring democracy, but I don't think guns will be necessary for that.

Now, I hope you can keep an open mind, and also consider how hard it is to hijack a plane, even before 9/11.

EDIT: And, yes, you could say I am "flaming America" (figuratively), after all, our society is so..... bad...... Disney Channel; MTV; huge ego's..... SCENE KIDS!!!

Need I say more?

So, what about the passengers? They just... disappeared? People witnessed them getting on a plane at the airport, those planes never arriving because they hit buildings, how could that be "covered up"? All the employees of the airlines, the witnesses, the families, all in on it, for oil? Are you sure the most rational explanation isn't a religious extremist with an agenda against our governemnt planning an orchestrated attack?

Where do you get there being explosives? Where are the direct, unaltered quotes? What about electrical explosions that were going off? Also the rivets popping out of steel?

I dunno man, you are entitled to believe what you want, I'm not gonna trash you for it, but I can't buy into it myself. There is certainly not enough concrete evidence from your side of the fence.

Fair enough. There are holes in both sides of the story. And, to be perfectly honest, I am on the fence on this. I don't firmly believe that the U.S. did this, however, I believe it more than terrorists did it. So, you keep thinking what you think, I won't try to stop you.

 

[Imat]

There aren't enough options. If there was one saying "9/11 was planned by America, and they should get the fuck out of The Middle East, and I am American. Also, America's populace sucks" I would check that in a second.

Although I believe in the whole 9/11 was planned by the Bush administration and shit I don't believe there is much need for something like that lol.

P.s. I accidentally clicked the report button on your post.... (sorry)

Excuse me, I think I misunderstood your post. You said that you believe the Bush administration (Meaning many people, the sheer manpower to plan something like this would be huge) planned and performed the tragedies of 9/11? So basically you want to murder any survivors and families of the survivors and families of the dead, publicly desecrate their remains, and then post a video of it on Youtube, making sure to hack into the servers to keep the video up for as long as possible? Because that's about the same effect what you're saying has on them. Personally if I knew anybody involved in the tragedy I would sue you for emotional trauma, which would of course lead to legal and potentially monetary ramifications for The Escapist which I'm sure they don't want.

Listen up, and listen good: Capitalism does not lead to large-scale conspiracies involving the destruction of large centers of COMMERCE (A big part of CAPITALISM) and the death of home-country civilians just for the sake of a slightly larger profit margin. I don't know what idiot made up this steaming pile but there is no way in any underworld it's true. Conspiracy theories will always exist and will always take the smallest shred of evidence to imply absolute truth. You, sir, are feeding the machine.

 

[jboking]

Have you ever played "Advanced Wars"? If you have, do you remember what happens when you fly a plane for too long and aren't close enough to your home base? That's right, your plane is downed for lack of fuel. It's always good to have a base to refuel at in the enemy territory or even in the third party territory.

It's also always pretty awesome to be able to help the green allied units fight against the blue baddies. Especially when they clearly need your help. Sadly, if you didn't capture a construction base anywhere but your home base you wont be able to help them in time and you'll start loosing allies.

Long story short, if you want to be a superpower, you need places to fight from and to provide aid from other than your homeland.

 

[Clashero]

What, may I ask, are all these soldiers to do if not occupying foreign countries? Its not like we have a surplus of jobs back here at home...

You're still working as a military man, even if you're not busy trespassing on foreign soil.

Seriously, America has bases all over the damn place, but God help the country that wants to install a base in the US.

 

[Fulax]

The biggest threat to US national security is US foreign policy. It would be better for everyone if the US removed it's soldiers from places they aren't wanted - especially the Middle East.

 

[Epitome]

See this is where part of me that thinks Foreign Aid is wrong kicks in. Does a US presence in the shittier parts of the world bring stability? Maybe a little, but its short term and if they leave lik eyou say the people would be back to killing each other by lunchtime. Good, that is the only way a country grows, you cannot take the history and culture, all we have learned to make it to the first world and stamp in on developing cultures. It wont take, alot of all the food aid peoel send every month is seized by the local militia in the ports and used as leverage on a populus to maintain a corrupt leader.

Now as for why you maintain bases where it is costly and pointless I have no idea but if it makes you happy Im okay with the situation globally, yes i wish the US would stay out of the affairs of people but thats just not going to happen, they have created so many enemies for themselves over their short lifespan that constant guard is the only real way they can feel safe. But more than that they have established themselves as an icon of the whole Western world, people who hate the western world typically think America. If they want to try and undertake the very costly task of policing the world while staying out of my countries affairs then let em lol

 

[hebdomad]

Let's start this off by talking about the planes. The planes were NOT commercial airlines, it was, in fact, a Military aircraft, and could have possibly been flown by no one (remotely). Some ways of telling is how there are no windows on the side. Commercial planes have windows, military do not. Also, it would have been infuriatingly more difficult to maneuver a commercial plane like a military plane.

Now, explosions: When a plane crashes into a giant tower, explosions don't just go off at the bottom of said tower, there has to be, what most refer to as, "Explosives." How did they get there? I'm saying it was planted by the U.S.

And, Motives: What else is there to say other than O I L . It was obvious we were running out, and it was obvious the Middle East had a bunch of it. So, Bush said something along the lines of, "Hmmm, I can't think of a reason to invade, so let's make one up!" Now, we have been there FAR too long, and there is virtually no reason we should be there, other than to anger more people, or to bring democracy, but I don't think guns will be necessary for that.

Now, I hope you can keep an open mind, and also consider how hard it is to hijack a plane, even before 9/11.

EDIT: And, yes, you could say I am "flaming America" (figuratively), after all, our society is so..... bad...... Disney Channel; MTV; huge ego's..... SCENE KIDS!!!

Need I say more?

Oh and we never landed on the moon either right? and Roswell did have a Alien spacecraft crash...

Come on. Seriously. For one a little respect for the thousands of people who died in the attacks. And secondly, you honestly can't believe that people hated America enough to hijack aeroplanes and crash them into buildings.

Oh and a little note on Oil, Afghanistan has little or no oil production at all. The biggest export for Afghanistan (before the war) was poppy seeds used to make opium (almost 70% of its export). This is where the Taliban gets it's money, and how it controlled the people of Afghanistan. The war in Afghanistan has always been about the Taliban and Il-Qaeda, organisations who have, for years, attacked western people (particularly Americans) for it's quest to 'rid muslin lands of non-muslin people and influence'. For the west, it's mostly about creating a stable environment for commerce (which means allot of western influence).

Iraq however was all about oil, no doubt there. To ensure a cheap supply of oil they had to take out anyone who would destabilise the area for profit. The Iraq war was going to happen with or without the attacks. The real crying shame there was leaving the Iraqi resistance fighters out to dry in 1990.

In short this whole war is about money vs religion.

 

[Projo]

America pulling out her troops seems like the stupidest suggestion ever, regardless of the current crisis with the Middle East. Pardon my bias, but when it comes to war, America is the go-to guy. What's that, a an Axis of Evil is conquering Europe, meeting little resistance from the likes of the Soviets and England? Excuse me, Japan and Russia are having spats? Oh, you're telling me that Israel is threatening to blow up the world if Libya doesn't stay off their lawn? America keeps you suckers in check.

And what's with this "get out of the Middle East nonsense"? We've been there since Kuwait came to our door begging for us to help them. And, news flash, so has Britain. And it's not like we don't have a reason to be in the Middle East anyways. They did attack us.

They problem with this war, is that people assume it's as easy as "okay let's pull out".

We're not at war with a recognized country. We CAN'T pull out, even if we wanted to. There is no governing body to call a cease fire with, there is no entity that we can formally announce our surrender to. There are no set border for us to retreat behind. We at war with a group of people, an ideal, not a nation. The people are occupying nations there, but that doesn't mean we're at war with them. An easy example would be Pakistan. We're fighting people there, and the majority of the people in Pakistan are trying to kill our troops, but we are allied with Pakistan. That fact alone makes this war a lot different than say, Vietnam, where there were distinguished enemy lines and whatnot (even for a guerrilla war, at least then we knew who to point a gun at).

On top of that, they're threatening us. It doesn't matter if we're there because of oil (every country with a military is occupying/has went to war with someone for some type of resource), they threatened us with nuclear weapons. It doesn't matter whether there really are any or not, they claimed they had them, they claimed they'd use them. It's not some imaginary assumption that these people want to hurt us either: Both al-Quada and the Taliban believe, and are fighting for, the "Worldwide Caliphate". A Muslim dominated world. And that's not just some American excuse, that's essentially what the Sunni Muslim sect is all about.

It's not that pulling out would make us look bad. It would make us look dead.


Now pardon me, I need to go eat an apple pie while listening to When Johnny Comes Marching Home, punching a Communist, and getting another stars and stripes tattoo.

[edit: oil. RIGHT! Our Oil typically comes from Kuwait (our allies, not really threatened by Iraq/n anymore), and Saudi Arabia (our allies, save for the vast amount of their population leaning to the Sunni side)].