Poll: Sexy convention costumes - okay to stare?

[UberPubert]

but why souldn't she have sex before marrage? it was an arbitrairy "rule" enforced on her by a society that would punish her for liking sex, she realises in the end it was bullshit

It's not entirely arbitrary. The idea of having a single sex partner in an age without paternity tests meant some security in the knowledge that, in the event of a pregnancy, the child would be conceived of husband and wife, and therefore the man could be held financially responsible for raising the child, which was important with a lack of daycare or social security nets to help a single mother.

But as these circumstances have changed, so have modern ideas on promiscuity and marriage. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find people on the street who care that other women are having sex before marriage anymore. In the case of slut walks you'll instead find it is encouraged.

And to be clear, the rule was hardly enforced, and the only "punishment" one might receive for having multiple sex partners before marriage is...being called out on having multiple sex partners before marriage. The only damage such insults could inflict are proportional to the listeners insecurity.

you can make all kinds of judgments on people for what they do and (yes) for what they wear but some judgments are based on shakey ground...the idea that unless a woman dresses/behaves a certain way sexual harrasment/assult is not only inevitable but justified is bullshit

This depends largely on your definition of sexual harassment or assault. Within the context of this thread, we're talking about staring. Particularly, staring at a social convention, directed at someone wearing a costume. Context is important in this situation, and I don't think staring at someone who's wearing something attention-grabbing in a public place is a crime.

it reminds me of the issue of some gay men bascially saying [i/]"yeah I'm gay but I'm not one of THOSE gays..you know the prissy ones with the lisps...I'm the "good" kind of gay, the hetero conforming kind"[/i] <-theyre appealing to arbitraity (and homophopic) standards instead of saying "hey...who do thease people think they are? telling me how I can/can't express myself or "accepting me" as long as I fit in with them"

I don't believe I've ever met a homosexual with that attitude, but without defining what "hetero conforming" is, wouldn't denying the stereotypes typically associated with those of their sexuality simply be non-homo conforming? (EDIT: Homo non-comforming?)

 

[Vegosiux]

Just not respecting someone doesn't mean you're objectifying them. For example, I REALLY don't respect one of our major politicians, think he's a complete and total prick who should keep quiet and serve his time in jail. Am I objectifying him?
.

yes but WHY have you deemed that politician not worthy of your respect? what judgments about his charachter have made? is it because of his policies? his conduct?....[b/]is it the way he wears his suit?[/b]

My point was, even with the dislike I have for him, I'd still treat him with the courtesy and proper social conduct befitting a human being if I ran into him or had to spend some time in his vicinity for some reason. I just think he should serve the time he got for his corrupt schemes instead of whining about how it's all the communists' fault. Respect is not necessary at all in order to treat someone like a human being.

My second point was, "not worthy of my respect...yet" is my default position when I meet a new person. I only respect people who do something to warrant my respect. Of course, there are people who go too far the other way, and forever lose the chance that I'll ever respect them, but sod those fools, they're fools. Don't mistake lack of respect for disrespect, though (or the other way around)! Only those fools get my disrespect. The people who are neither fools nor earned my respect, simply get neither.

I do not respect anyone by default. People have to earn that. Respect, like friendship and trust are things I value highly, so I ration them very carefully. That does not preclude me treating people with common courtesy.

So no, I'm not going to respect a girl I've never seen before who happens to walk past me dressed like Miss Fortune. I'm also not going to respect anyone else I've never seen before who happens to walk past me at any time, anywhere. What I am going to do is just treat them with basic courtesy and politeness. If I learn more about them, and they're good company to have around, or seem like a decent, honest person...only then they will get my respect, as well. And I use the same rule for cosplay girls as I do for people I run into on hockey games or when waiting in line down at DMV.

 

[Vault101]

So no, I'm not going to respect a girl I've never seen before who happens to walk past me dressed like Miss Fortune. I'm also not going to respect anyone else I've never seen before who happens to walk past me at any time, anywhere. What I am going to do is just treat them with basic courtesy and politeness.

some people would interpert that as a form of respect...obviously "respect" means different things here

the main point is youre not going to leer/make rude comments at her and justify it acording to what she's wearing

 

[DementedSheep]

but why souldn't she have sex before marrage? it was an arbitrairy "rule" enforced on her by a society that would punish her for liking sex, she realises in the end it was bullshit

you can make all kinds of judgments on people for what they do and (yes) for what they wear but some judgments are based on shakey ground...the idea that unless a woman dresses/behaves a certain way sexual harrasment/assult is not only inevitable but justified is bullshit

How you dress says a lot about you. If you put emphasis on your sex appeal you shouldn't wonder why when people think about you they think of you primary in the context of you being a good lay. If that's what you want, go for it. If it's not and you can't handle that then don't present yourself like that. I don't like catcalls and being stared at so I'm not going to model myself after a Ms Fanservice and then complain about it when anyone with half a brain could have told me that was going to happen. Staring is also not assault and unless they follow you barely qualifies as harassment. It something you should be able to handle yourself.
Liking sex before marriage is fine but that doesn't mean you should be presenting your ass to every guy on the street.

it reminds me of the issue of some gay men bascially saying [i/]"yeah I'm gay but I'm not one of THOSE gays..you know the prissy ones with the lisps...I'm the "good" kind of gay, the hetero conforming kind"[/i] <-theyre appealing to arbitraity (and homophopic) standards instead of saying "hey...who do thease people think they are? telling me how I can/can't express myself or "accepting me" as long as I fit in with them"

or they just aren't prissy, don't like people who are and are sick of being lumped in with them because they are gay.

 

[Dragonlayer]

I don't think its a particularly difficult concept to grasp, but there's a difference between appreciating the individual and her costume, and just flat out staring like a horny teenager.

However, you *are* allowed to stare if the cosplay is the worst attempt you've ever seen and want to register your infinite hatred for the individual in question!

 

[Vault101]

How you dress says a lot about you. If you put emphasis on your sex appeal you shouldn't wonder why when people think about you they think of you primary in the context of you being a good lay.

and why should they think like that? or more to the point when gives them the right to express those thourghts in the form of harrasment and intimidation? why are women responsible for the behaviour of men?

[quote/]Liking sex before marriage is fine but that doesn't mean you should be presenting your ass to every guy on the street.[/quote]

[b/]presenting[/b] ones ass to [b/]every guy on the street[/b]? now what makes you think somones doing that? if I'm walking down the street in short shorts because its hot then my ass is not "presented" to anyone,why do we assume guys have some kind of god given right to womans bodys? again if what I wear is the determining factor in weather or not I get harrased who has the problem?

women can get harrased no matter what theyre wearing

[quote/] or they just aren't prissy, don't like people who are and are sick of being lumped in with them because they are gay.[/quote]

Sterotypes are annoying yes, but there comes a point where people are trying to appeal to bigotry rather than asking themsevles why femininity is aparently bad in the first place

 

[Remus]

Guys, if ya gotta oogle, learn the fine art of the side glance. 0.25 seconds tops then move on. Train that memory to retain images longer! If it's a character you recognize from a film, comic, or game you like, ask the person if you can get a photo, compliment them, be social. These things aren't as difficult as they may seem. A little common courtesy can go a long way.

 

[llubtoille]

It's their body and they're allowed to flaunt it within the law, any way they likes.
However your eyes are a part of your body, and you're allowed to look anywhere you like, for as long as you like.
Anything less is hypocritical.

That said, there's still common courtesy.
Being a dick (from both sides) is still being a dick.

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

Pro tip: Be female, or just a really hot guy. You can ogle/stare at anyone or anything for as long as you like without it being deemed "creepy".

If you're not a female (or a sexy guy) then you'll have to settle with quick glances.

 

[DementedSheep]

How you dress says a lot about you. If you put emphasis on your sex appeal you shouldn't wonder why when people think about you they think of you primary in the context of you being a good lay.

and why should they think like that? or more to the point when gives them the right to express those thourghts in the form of harrasment and intimidation? why are women responsible for the behaviour of men?

Why do women expect people not to look at what they draw attention to and control others eyes? Why dose blame have to be one sided?

[quote/]Liking sex before marriage is fine but that doesn't mean you should be presenting your ass to every guy on the street.

[b/]presenting[/b] ones ass to [b/]every guy on the street[/b]? now what makes you think somones doing that? if I'm walking down the street in short shorts because its hot then my ass is not "presented" to anyone,why do we assume guys have some kind of god given right to womans bodys? again if what I wear is the determining factor in weather or not I get harrased who has the problem?[/quote]
You don't wear sexy cosplays because of the weather. You wear sexy cosplays because you want to be seen as sexy and get a reaction.

women can get harrased no matter what theyre wearing

Which is why I have no sympathy for those who encourage it.

[quote/] or they just aren't prissy, don't like people who are and are sick of being lumped in with them because they are gay.

Sterotypes are annoying yes, but there comes a point where people are trying to appeal to bigotry rather than asking themsevles why femininity is aparently bad in the first place[/quote] Many traits associated with femininity ARE bad or at the least fucking annoying. Equal but different is for the most part a load of shit.

 

[the December King]

This is a weird one!

So, cosplayers dress up as characters, sometimes that are overtly sexual in dress/appearance. They then go to a convention, with the likely intention of appealing to at least a crowd of peers or friends, that will appreciate the costume for it's detail/accuracy/what have you. But therein lies the rub (eh, sorry, no-touchy), as the character in question, if sexual, will, to an uninitiated person, simply look like a sexualized person in a state of undress or titillation, and some of these people will stare. Might be shock, might be attraction, but hopefully they will recover, and act decently.

On the one hand, these cosplayers want to be looked at, at least on some level, and should be prepared for some stares. If they didn't want to be noticed, why did they dress up? And it's a venue that encourages this sort of display. Context is important, I reckon.

On the other hand, staring is rude. It shows boorishness. It can make people nervous. And obviously, if the cosplayer feels threatened, or stalked, or even physically compromised(touched when uninvited, that sort of thing), then this is a line that has been crossed and the ogler is now committing harassment. This is wrong, period.

(Personally, I try to not even so much as glance at people dressed in skimpy costumes in public spaces, mainly because anyone I don't know is assumed an idiot until proven otherwise, and could fly off the handle at the most unpredictable things. That, and I do, on some level, feel like they just wanted the attention anyways, and don't deserve mine for simply dancing about almost naked. As an aside, is it impolite to stare at the giant robot costumes? Then call me a perv... Robo-Perv.)

 

[Vault101]

snip

controll other peoples eyes? oh no....people controll their own eyes

[quote/]
You don't wear sexy cosplays because of the weather. You wear sexy cosplays because you want to be seen as sexy and get a reaction. [/quote]
sexy cosplays aren't the same no...but basic social conduct should apply, its not hard

[quote/]
Which is why I have no sympathy for those who encourage it.[/quote]
its not encouraging shit....if I wear a sexy costume ok I'm wearing a sexy costume...I am not saying "COME AND GRAOP/LEER AT ME" because its not ok and what somone wears doesn't make it ok

and just EXISTING is enough "encouragment" for some people, turn into a sliding scale of "acceptibility" youre making excuse for the people whodo it

[quote/]
Many traits associated with femininity ARE bad or at the least fucking annoying. Equal but different is for the most part a load of shit.[/quote]
oh really? like what?

the fact that certain negative traits are associated with feminity in the first place is plain old sexism...traits both good and bad should not be gendered at all, wer'e all capable of them

 

[DementedSheep]

snip

controll other peoples eyes? oh no....people controll their own eyes

[quote/]
You don't wear sexy cosplays because of the weather. You wear sexy cosplays because you want to be seen as sexy and get a reaction.

sexy cosplays aren't the same no...but basic social conduct should apply, its not hard

[quote/]
Which is why I have no sympathy for those who encourage it.[/quote]
its not encouraging shit....if I wear a sexy costume ok I'm wearing a sexy costume...I am not saying "COME AND GRAOP/LEER AT ME" because its not ok and what somone wears doesn't make it ok
[/quote]

This has nothing to do with groping, Never said it was ok to touch. If you are wearing a sexy costume you are saying "LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT MY TITS AND LOOK AT HOW SEXY I AM". You are putting yourself on display.

and just EXISTING is enough "encouragment" for some people, turn into a sliding scale of "acceptibility" youre making excuse for the people whodo it

A person opinions on most things are going to fall somewhere on a sliding scale. I imagine most people would think it was stupid if someone pole danced naked in public and then got pissed at people staring.

Many traits associated with femininity ARE bad or at the least fucking annoying. Equal but different is for the most part a load of shit.

oh really? like what?

the fact that certain negative traits are associated with feminity in the first place is plain old sexism...traits both good and bad should not be gendered at all, wer'e all capable of them

Your the one who bought up the gendered term "femininity".
How about begin passive, overly emotional, dependant, weak, naive (which for some reason is often portrayed as good) manipulative, vain and more concerned with begin decorative than anything useful. These trait aren't looked down on because women display them. They are looked down upon because they're shitty traits. I guess feminine is associated with empathy, Yay...

 

[Skull Bearer]

Pro tip: Be female, or just a really hot guy. You can ogle/stare at anyone or anything for as long as you like without it being deemed "creepy".

If you're not a female (or a sexy guy) then you'll have to settle with quick glances.

Yes, how dare women decide for themselves whether behaviour is creepy or not!

 

[Vegosiux]

Pro tip: Be female, or just a really hot guy. You can ogle/stare at anyone or anything for as long as you like without it being deemed "creepy".

If you're not a female (or a sexy guy) then you'll have to settle with quick glances.

Yes, how dare women decide for themselves whether behaviour is creepy or not!

The implication AS was making is that they're not deciding if the behavior is creepy, but that the same behavior can somehow be creepy or not creepy, depending on who's behaving.

*sigh* As if social situations aren't enough of a minefield, trying to bring logic into them seems to only make them worse for some reason. I'm going back to math, that's simple and safe, and clear-cut.

 

[Vegosiux]

You know what occurred to me about some of the people here who think it's either illegal to stare too long or too often, or think it's creepy or bordering levels of potential danger?

I have this nagging wonder how many of these people who find this so abhorhent... defended a man who goes by the name of George Zimmerman for his "lawful" following of a boy named Trayvon Martin which ended in a rather ill fated night as though what he was doing was perfectly normal, acceptable, and legal.

Something to think about for some of you I can imagine.

I'm actually going to say "Likely none at all", to be honest. I'm not going to go into the reasons why I think so, but I'm pretty certain it's the other way around, that even many people who say it's OK to look at cons indeed found GZ's actions completely unacceptable.

 

[wulf3n]

The responses in this thread are really quite amusing.

It speaks volumes about a persons character when their reaction to being told certain behaviours/actions towards another person make said person uncomfortable are essentially "They're asking for it" and "My pleasure is more important than that persons sense of safety"

 

[Angelous Wang]

People have the right to dress as they like an not be stared at, but I also have the right to stare at anything I want that is put in front of me.

So there is a conflict. But I would say who is wrong an would is right all depends on the siutation.

I would say if you put yourself in a sexy costume and then put yourself within my visual radious and I end up staring at you (and you notice and don't like it), it's your own fault. You have enabled my right by putting yourslef there by you own choice. You should move out of my visual radious if you don't want to be stared at by me.

On the other hand if I were to start following you around just to stare at you, I would be in wrong there because you are trying to enforce you right to not be stared at and I am preventing that right/choice.

As for people who say you should not stare at sexy people regardless, I say no. I am male attracted to women, it is a built in a function for me to look at attractive women, a kin to moving away from a dicomfortble temprature or flinching when someone throws a fist to close to my face. It not even something I think about it just happens automatically.

 

[keniakittykat]

When I was wearing a neon-faun outfit (that's the best I could describe it) at F.a.c.t.s. last year I had a lot of people stare and 'check me out'.

I was in costume, barely dressed from the hips up, so it wasn't anything I didn't expect. (except for the part when an orc pulled my tail. xD)

Just be respectful, and if you want to take a picture, just ask! Most cosplayers love it when people ask for their picture because it took most of them hours to look just right.