Poll: Sexy convention costumes - okay to stare?

[2012 Wont Happen]

Back before I lost a good bit of weight I'd get stares for being unattractive. Nobody cared about that, so excuse me if I don't give a fuck when peole complain that people look at them for being attractive. A comic con isn't a singles convention, so its not any more acceptable there than anywhere else to check someone out, and I understand it can make someone feel uncomfortable. At the same time though, while I don't stare at people, if someone complains to me about being looked at because people LIKE their appearance, I can't help think of that useless adage "check your privilege". I've felt with too much of people staring because they DISLIKED my appearance to care about your "problem".

This doesn't just go for women. If you're a man thinking of complaining to me about how your life is hard because of your good looks, you can go to hell.

 

[Vault101]

snip".

its not nice though...most of the time it doesn't make any different if somones having a good old leer/oggle, its uncomfortable

my point is "well if they think your attractive it can never be a bad thing" is dangerous thinking

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

snip".

its not nice though...most of the time it doesn't make any different if somones having a good old leer/oggle, its uncomfortable

my point is "well if they think your attractive it can never be a bad thing" is dangerous thinking

I don't think it can never be bad. However, it is not inherently bad. At one point in time your dad saw your mom and found her attractive. Due to cultural norms, it is likely he initiated discussion, but who actually approached who is irrelevant. Based on an initial physical attraction, they eventually fell in love, had sex (not necessarily, but possibly in that order), and created you. That is how every one of us came about. Checking people out is not some villainous crime, it is what has preceded every human being who has been created outside of a forced marriage situation or born to the blind.

Furthermore, why should I feel bad for someone because people find them attractive? Being good looking is advantageous financially and socially. It is an advantage, not a disadvantage. Finally, what do somebody's eyes actually do to you? If they are excessively staring, that's bad, but if they check you out then move on, that is natural human behavior. It is instinct because without it out species would not exist. The second a man/woman initiates sexual contact upon somebody unwilling it'd be an honor to shoot them, but you do what you want with your eyes and I'll do what I want with mine. Mine usually involves watching TV. I'd prefer it if not, but if you wanna stare at me for looking like shit or stare at a woman on the street because she's attractive, I just can't be bothered to care.

Hell, I'm dealing with the shittyness that is making radical changes to ones body composition so that maybe, just maybe, one fucking person will check me out for being good looking instead of for looking laughably bad. So no, no sympathy.

 

[Zhukov]

[snip]

The bitterness. It burns.

Y'know, I will never understand this kind of anger.

"Some bitchy college girl slapped me for no good reason. Fuck women and feminism."

"Some girl exercised poor judgement in a drastic situation. (Assuming I take your story on face value) Fuck women and feminism."

"Someone asked me what my mum would think. Fuck women and feminism."

 

[Vault101]

I don't think it can never be bad. However, it is not inherently bad. At one point in time your dad saw your mom and found her attractive. He stared at her while she pretended to be absorbed in her book, he made a lewed comment. She threw the paperback at him and ran home

ok I'm being an ass....but acting like a normal person is ok (to an extent if she reeeeaally isn't up for talking at that moment)

[quote/] what do somebody's eyes actually do to you? If they are excessively staring, that's bad, but if they check you out then move on[/quote]
it depends....staring can be intimidating...as hard as this is for some guys to belive women do have their saftey alays in the back of heir heads

[quote/]that is natural human behavior. It is instinct because without it out species would not exist. upon.[/quote]
I really do not give a flying fuck what is aparently "natural".....forigvie my bluntness but not only is it a falalcy but its used to justify too much bullshit in this world

But I won't. I will however say fuck people who act like being viewed as attractive is some terrible detriment. Fuck people who think that sexuality is a terrible think rather than the natural way the species is propagated. Fuck people who expect me to care about a problem that I wish I had. Fuck people who take a very specific argument made and extrapolate "he hates women" out of it.
.

I won't say that

I would say though people who constantly miss the point...you know....to them I'd say *siiiiiiiiiigghhhhhh*

 

[Lieju]

Back before I lost a good bit of weight I'd get stares for being unattractive. Nobody cared about that, so excuse me if I don't give a fuck when peole complain that people look at them for being attractive.

I don't really think that's any different, someone is giving you unwarranted attention.

And I'd like to point out that in general (sexual) harassment doesn't necessarily happen because someone thinks you're hot. It happens to overweight/not conventionally attractive people as well, usually with the added 'well, she should be flattered someone likes her!'.

It might be about exerting power over people (usually women, although it does happen with men as well), or it can be done because the person thinks an unattractive person won't complain about it or that they're easy lays.

I realize you were also making a distinction between just looking (which is fine), and harassment/staring, and I agree to some extent, but I felt like that needed to be pointed out.

 

[Zhukov]

[snip]

The bitterness. It burns.

Y'know, I will never understand this kind of anger.

"Some bitchy college girl slapped me for no good reason. Fuck women and feminism."

"Some girl exercised poor judgement in a drastic situation. (Assuming I take your story on face value) Fuck women and feminism."

"Someone asked me what my mum would think. Fuck women and feminism."

I would never say fuck women or fuck feminism, but maybe I'd say fuck you if we were speaking face to face.

But I won't. I will however say fuck people who act like being viewed as attractive is some terrible detriment. Fuck people who think that sexuality is a terrible think rather than the natural way the species is propagated. Fuck people who expect me to care about a problem that I wish I had. Fuck people who take a very specific argument made and extrapolate "he hates women" out of it.

Huh, I guess I did wind up saying fuck you. Oh well.

Y'know, it is a source of constant amusement to me that all the very obviously angry and bitter people end up on one particular side of these arguments.

...

Getting back on topic: It's amazing how many people fail to make the distinction between checking out an attractive person and making them uncomfortable. I mean... how does someone even reach adulthood without learning how to do that? It's like meeting a middle aged person who doesn't know how to shake hands.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

I don't think it can never be bad. However, it is not inherently bad. At one point in time your dad saw your mom and found her attractive. He stared at her while she pretended to be absorbed in her book, he made a lewed comment. She threw the paperback at him and ran home

ok I'm being an ass....but acting like a normal person is ok (to an extent if she reeeeaally isn't up for talking at that moment)

[quote/] what do somebody's eyes actually do to you? If they are excessively staring, that's bad, but if they check you out then move on

it depends....staring can be intimidating...as hard as this is for some guys to belive women do have their saftey alays in the back of heir heads

[quote/]that is natural human behavior. It is instinct because without it out species would not exist. upon.[/quote]
I really do not give a flying fuck what is aparently "natural".....forigvie my bluntness but not only is it a falalcy but its used to justify too much bullshit in this world

But I won't. I will however say fuck people who act like being viewed as attractive is some terrible detriment. Fuck people who think that sexuality is a terrible think rather than the natural way the species is propagated. Fuck people who expect me to care about a problem that I wish I had. Fuck people who take a very specific argument made and extrapolate "he hates women" out of it.
.

I won't say that

I would say though people who constantly miss the point...you know....to them I'd say *siiiiiiiiiigghhhhhh*[/quote]

That about safety is a very good point. I don't think about physical intimidation much, not only because I'm a man, but because I'm a gun owner. From that privileged perspective I see how physical difference could seem far less relevant than it is.

Thank you for your post which enlightened me. I'm glad somebody other than the guy who just radicalized me further by insulting me spoke up.

Back before I lost a good bit of weight I'd get stares for being unattractive. Nobody cared about that, so excuse me if I don't give a fuck when peole complain that people look at them for being attractive.

I don't really think that's any different, someone is giving you unwarranted attention.

And I'd like to point out that in general (sexual) harassment doesn't necessarily happen because someone thinks you're hot. It happens to overweight/not conventionally attractive people as well, usually with the added 'well, she should be flattered someone likes her!'.

It might be about exerting power over people (usually women, although it does happen with men as well), or it can be done because the person thinks an unattractive person won't complain about it or that they're easy lays.

I realize you were also making a distinction between just looking (which is fine), and harassment/staring, and I agree to some extent, but I felt like that needed to be pointed out.

Also thank you. Also good points. Thanks for looking past the coarse way I phrased it to see what I was getting at more thoroughly. I know that's not how I should talk, but I was raised around firefighters and soldiers, so when a drop of the liquor hit me (and I've had well more than a drop) I get to cussing like a sailor. Sorry for that, and any offense I caused in this thread.

 

[possumboy]

You were watching a bunch of guys watching a bunch of girls? What's the deal, bro? Walking on the beaches, looking at the peaches!

Spoiler

I was upset that your spoiler did not contain The Stranglers

Spoiler

 

[Zhukov]

Or perhaps I was sharing past stories to tell you to get over your ridiculous notions that this is a one sided argument.

Oh, but it is. Hilariously so.

These are the kind of arguments that really only manage to fester in the sad, dank, funny-smelling little echo chambers of the internet, and possibly men's locker rooms, in much the same way that mould grows on damp, dark and unwashed surfaces.

Out in the wider world, that mysterious place whose denizens understand basic everyday social norms like "staring is rude", this sort of argument would be a stand-up comedy routine.

 

[Saetha]

Snip

For the record, Ultreos, while I bear no love for the exceptionalism sometimes displayed in incidents such as the one you stated here, I have to ask that you do not say "women," and leave it at that, as though we all do and believe this. We do not, and I hate women who think their boobs make them special just as much as anyone else.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

It's simple; take discreet look, or approach the cosplayer and ask if you may take a more detailed look or a few photographs. Engage with them, they are after all, people just like yourself. And if you find yourself totally rubbernecked by someone who can wear a Starfire outfit as if they were Kori herself, or can rock Leonidas' Spartan jocks and 6 pack like a boss, just own up that you are fucking stunned by how good they look and quickly move on.

Also, no touching. Because at that point it becomes assault and the police can be involved.

 

[wulf3n]

Sexual harassment is, therefore if you do it repetitively, it's illegal.

Staring is unlikely to ever be considered sexual harassment from a legal perspective as it's practically impossible to prove (without other evidence) that the reason for staring was/is sexual in nature.

In general it's just considered plain old harassment.

 

[LetalisK]

Wow. This thread is an exercise in strawmen and talking past each other. 90% of the people agree with the sentiment "look, don't stare" but come at it from two different perspectives. Then one perspective denounces the argument that it's not okay to look and the other denounces the argument that it's okay to grope, as if either argument has been made by either "side".

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Fucking hell, this thread. Is it so hard to understand that, hey, maybe people like wearing a sexy costume for themselves and you shouldn't fucking ogle them?

Look at a person the same way you would any other person and move on.

 

[mecegirl]

It's a convention for showing off costumes, shouldn't you be able to look at them as much as you want?

No. Its a convention, and some people choose to attend in costume. Not a convention specifically for showing off costumes. So people can't look as much as they want as if that's the point of the convention.

I'm still voting "OK to watch". Different cultures, different sensibilities.

It can't be that different since women complain about the staring there, just like they do outside of convention spaces.

I suppose those pesky construction workers that love shouting abuse are ubiquitous. Quietly staring at a fantasy costume though? Not that controversial. We're a third world country with third world problems. Gazing isn't one of them.

Men quietly stare at women on the street too, and it's just as unnerving. You are not talking about a costume on a mannequin. You are talking about a costume on a person. And that person can very well have a negative reaction to being stared at.... Someone having on a costume in a convention does not magically make them an object for others consumption. They aren't "booth babes" who were hired to stand around and be looked at. In any case, if someone is that intrigued by a costume they would do better to go and ask the person how they made said costume.

You clearly have very little lived experience with being stared at. Otherwise you would not have brought up the most stereotypical example of cat calling ever. So I must ask. Why can't you just trust the experience of the people who actually have to deal with it? What do you think people are loosing out on if they can't stare at people at conventions? Do you think that manners suddenly don't matter? Or were you never told that it is impolite to stare and point as a child? Do you think that others viewing pleasure is more important than someone's discomfort?

 

[Vegosiux]

who gets to deicde who has the right to respect and who doesnt'?

For my respect, I do. For your respect, you do. For Craig McCracken's respect, Craig McCracken does.

who gets to deicde that a woman who wears a certain outfit isn't worthy of respect? what is she then? an object? a peice of meat and fair game for anyone to grope/leer at because she hasn't dressed in the aporpriate way as dertemined by who?

Just not respecting someone doesn't mean you're objectifying them. For example, I REALLY don't respect one of our major politicians, think he's a complete and total prick who should keep quiet and serve his time in jail. Am I objectifying him?

I think you're confusing courtesy and proper social conduct for respect.