Poll: Sexy convention costumes - okay to stare?

[wulf3n]

I see a lot of words on your part but no content.

Funny, I was just looking over all your posts in this thread and was thinking the exact same thing about you.

How curious. You've said that people here have a legal misunderstanding of what they are or are not allowed to do with their eyes.

Actually I didn't. You should probably go back and actually read my original post before getting defensive about it. What I actually said was that people had a a legal misunderstanding of what they have a right to or are entitled do.

I asked you to prove where there is some legal misunderstanding.

Technically you asked me to define a position I made no assertion to.

Then you come back with personal attacks as if I am afraid of something.

1) That's not a personal attack, unless of course your overly defensive
2) If it is then you threw the first punch by suggesting a disingneuos position on my part as a falacious attempt at "Moral Superioty". So people in glass houses and all that.

Heck I even cited a court case that people should readily be familiar with to support why there is no legal misunderstanding to staring.

A court case that has no bearing on anything I've said.

Perhaps you should consider that you made a poor choice in claiming people had a phantom legal misunderstanding as to what we do and do not have the right to do within the bounderies of law.

I calls 'em how I sees 'em and what I sees is people who have a gross legal misunderstanding regarding rights and entitlements.

 

[masticina]

How easily this could lead to morality talk and what other people should wear. It is also easy to blame the male for liking the female body. That is biology after all, well there are males who don't really go off on female bodies but most men do. And it is all hard wired.

You can't choose who you are attracted to but only choose on how to act upon it. If as male you like boobs and butts well more power to you. How one deals with it makes the difference though.

Even the most gallant white knight still has in himself that animal hunger and desire to fulfill the mating desires. And females, well lets just say they are sexual creatures to. There are not many males and females who are not turned on by the attraction fo sex. Again there are always exceptions.

And when it comes to finding a mate there is more to it then a good body to look at. Allot more actually as we all know with age bodies might wither but love might not. So there are things within us that attract the others that make love endure.

Ah tangents, I shall be simple here, women dressing in sexy clothing will be looked at. Some people might be bit less gallant but even beware the white knight for there is also an animal inside him/her.

And for some women showing off their assets even empowers them. They seem to like the attention they get and the power they have over the other sex. And yes there are even exceptions who go much further but lets not dive into that right now.

If you dress up like someone you tend to do that because you want to draw power from that person. The idea behind that person that is and if someone dresses up in Bloodrayne they might hunger for its sexual power and might. I said might, after all I am not some kind of mind reader. I could be wrong.

So hot women in sexy clothes? Yup that is pretty nice to look at my respect to you daring it. Hope you don't have to deal to much with the more leech part of society. And watch out for White Knights, we all know they got a Wolf living inside of them.

 

[Mordwyl]

Personally I'd stare at such costumes as much as I'd stare at an elaborate Arbiter cosplay, cause well, look at the damn thing:

If something looks attractive it's going to grab my attention.

 

[CaptainThom]

Depends on what they're wearing, if its next to nothing then i imagine they probably are aware people are gonna stare (and possibly enjoy the attention) and this is regardless of gender.

 

[Batou667]

As much as people at a con aren't there FOR my viewing pleasure, and therefore I'm not entitled to make protracted unblinking eye-contact... I think it'd be reasonable to think that if they're wearing a costume they did it in part to be seen. And if it's a sexy outfit, they probably want to look and feel sexy. And if some girl turns up wearing nipple tassles and a thong, then my first thought isn't going to be how intelligent she probably is or what a great personality she might have.

Still, there's a fairly substantial difference between admiring and leering, and if you feel you're making somebody feel uncomfortable, then try your best to stop doing so.

 

[Lilikins]

wow..long thread with lots of reading, ah well, might aswell chime in then.

Personally speaking, if I see a costume and the character its displaying (no matter what the persons figure is, male or female) Ill look, approve or silently giggle to myself. Yes, I know that folks put alot of work in them but some of them do look a bit...funnyish hehe.

Now to the part about how much that person is showing, once again be it male or female. Staring in itself, for me personally atleast, would account for literally staring... which I find rude, so I dont do it.
For me personally staring would be standing there, jaw hanging halfway to the floor, not blinking and being somewhat more like a statue then anything else. Now there are cosplays that are going for a more revealing outfit in itself, but nevertheless then in that respect, as someone else also posted.. If Im going to go to a comicon and wear a speedo and 2 bandaids...I would expect to get stared at. I wouldve expected to be stared at (and laughed at most likely haha) the second I got into that costume and looked at myself in the mirror. If I've no problem with it, then Ill go that way, main thing is Im having fun (and I dont get a lawsuit...).

Long story short, If I wear something skimpy that I know will get attention, and I dont 'want' the attention, then I personally wouldnt wear it. If I wear a large pink T-shirt that says some obscene thing on it that exclaims what kind of a bombastic ladys man I 'think I am'...than Im accounting for the fact that alot of folks will see it and think something of me. It may seem close minded and I sincerely do hope I didnt offend anyone with it, but nevertheless thats my opinion. If someone has something against it, please do tell, Im always accepting of different views and am always willing to broaden my mind and change my opinion if the reason is valid.

 

[UberPubert]

The issue is that I see a lot of guys saying that with the underlying subtext of "But those sexy hunks over there get to creepily stare at women, it's unfair that I can't do it too!"

A little hyperbolic, but that's the jist of it, yeah. Determining what is or isn't a social faux pas based on someone's appearance comes pretty natural to most people. That doesn't make it fair, or the ones who complain about it bad people, but it's more or less the truth.

1. Women are attracted to lots of different types of guys. I know plenty of women with boyfriends who totally look like "fat neckbeards," because those guys are also interesting, cool people. So it's not as simple as "look like Chris Evans, get a clear pass to be creepy."

And how exactly is one supposed to determine whether they're "cool" or "interesting" enough to stare at or approach someone they find attractive? Assuming these people are strangers, that's a damn near impossibility unless they can make a very good first impression.

2. The guys that do get away with it know the difference between "creepy staring" and "furtive glances from across the room." The key difference is knowing when the other person isn't into it, and stopping if they aren't. Also, they're able to give a look that says "hello, I think you're attractive and I'd like you to know that" and not "you are nothing but boobs and ass to me."

Both of these descriptions sound like the observer is reading far too much into someone's facial expression, and unless they know them and are familiar with some of their behavioral cues, I'd wager they're also wrong.

Judging the intent in one stranger's stare from another based on a "look" is a needlessly obtuse point for trying to determine whether it's okay or not, and typically comes right back to whether the person being stared at finds the other person attractive or not. A flirtatious "come hither" for one person can look like the rape face of another depending on facial bone structure, gauntness/roundness, how their eyes are shaped or what color they are just as well as their posture. There's more complex factors at work here than a simple A. B. C. choice of social expressions and not everyone is adept at them - in fact, I'd wager most of the people at comic-cons aren't.

3. It has nothing to do with being conventionally attractive, it has everything to do with whether or not you are attractive to that specific person (which includes conveying that you have an understanding of boundaries).

Anyone can have different standards, certainly, but trying to ignore that there's typical appearances among certain people that put others at ease or unease just comes off as disingenuous, and someone trying to be polite and friendly to someone they would otherwise outright reject can be just as provocative as showing signs of interest. Given the complexity of social interactions, I don't think it's fair to blame either party for the misunderstanding unless things get to the point where they're wildly out of hand. Staring is not that point.

4. The definition of Creepy isn't "makes someone uncomfortable," it's "makes someone uncomfortable, and doesn't stop."

This assumes the person "creeping" can immediately tell when the other person is being made uncomfortable in order to stop. Seeing as how they're not mind-readers, and "Does this make you uncomfortable?" can be just as creepy as the staring - and I doubt the person being stared at can be expected to shout across the hall "STOP STARING AT ME, YOU'RE MAKING ME UNCOMFORTABLE" - I don't think it's unreasonable to accept that people might stare even when it makes other people uncomfortable for a while, and the best policy is probably to just walk away until line of sight is broken. Otherwise, they can deal with it, like a fart in an elevator.

 

[Falling_v1legacy]

I answered with Seinfeld tongue in cheek, but in effect if you have any sort of people skills, the question answers itself. Can you read body language and interpret social cues? Do you have any sort of self-awareness on how you are being received? Then you can adjust accordingly. There's no precise rule beyond does she appreciate your attention, cool. Does she not, stop.

And sure you be all: I DON'T CARE WHAT SHE THINKS, I SEE CLEAVAGE, I MUST SATISFY MY EYES DESPITE HER OBVIOUS DISCOMFORT.
You can do that.
You just don't have very good people skills.
At least if you are actively ignoring social cues because the costume is 'asking for attention.'
But that's on you. Choose what you want. Maybe the temporary satisfaction is worth sacrificing people's preception of you, but I rather think not.

 

[Olas]

It's situations like this where I think it would be legitimately helpful for people to wear something, some indicator (sign, wristband, etc) of how much 'attention' they're okay with receiving from the opposite gender. I mean, I know it's a ridiculous proposition, but it's the only clear solution I can think of.

However, lacking that I think the next best thing is to base it on how they're choosing to dress, if they dress revealingly, then they're clearly okay with drawing eyes to a certain extent. Is it wrong that someone's attire should have to be dictated by how comfortable they are with being looked at? Perhaps, but that's the circumstance, unless we try the wristband idea.

I can't believe people are actually arguing that staring can somehow be illegal or sexual harassment in any way, shape, or form. Can it be creepy as hell at times? Sure. Can it make the person being stared at uncomfortable? Absolutely. But guess what, it's perfectly legal and something a person has every right to do. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's something good or anything like that, I'm just defending the right to do it. Good manners and common courtesy aren't required by law, you have every right to be an asshole within the legal limits. Consequently, you have every right to criticize such behavior if you want but that's where it ends.

This thread isn't about the legality of it, but whether it's right or not. If laws were the only basis for which people exhibited self control we'd live in a pretty terrible world.

 

[scotth266]

(I'm perhaps a bit sensitive to this topic because I'm a fat dude who breathes heavily due to allergies and weight, and it's gotten me a judgmental glare or two at cons from people who clearly think I'm about to whip it out and start jerking it on the spot whenever I have a wayward glance.)

I find the "Should admire the costume, not the sexy parts" option hilarious, because with some of these outfits there's literally no not-sexy parts to look at. If you go around dressed in a Slave Leia outfit, I'm sorry: but I'm definitely going to look at your assets for a few moments.

Similarly, if some dude does around in tight pants doing a Mike Hagger, I would hold the ladies checking him out blameless, because that's what he signed up to cosplay. If you're not okay with showing off your body (and the potential responses that will follow) you should choose a more conservative outfit - perhaps the one that isn't a chainmail bikini/jockstrap.

This isn't an attempt to justify the more serious shit that happens at cons. Groping, sexual harrasment, and other similar actions are beyond the pale. But complaining about looks when your outfit WILL get them - regardless of your personal intentions - is just going to have me shaking my head at you. Like Slave Leia, and want to avoid attracting sexual looks? Don't wear it to a con, because it's going to happen. Like Caitlyn, but don't want to show off your boobs? Modify the outfit. Apply common sense, rather than jingoistic idealism.

 

[sumanoskae]

Are you really asking me if it is ethically acceptable to LOOK at someone in a public setting? Let's pretend that I am offended when people look at my hair, should you then not be allowed to look at my hair? How would you even know that looking at my hair offends me?

Just don't be rude; look at whatever the fuck you want, they're YOUR eyes and YOUR thoughts; you aren't allowed to tell people what to think and what to feel.

Exorcise the same degree of respect you would to anyone else; finding someone sexually attractive doesn't mean you have a low opinion of them.

Hell, go and introduce yourself if you want, flirting is not a form of harassment; I'm assuming you're a fucking adult and understand the concept of "No"; I assume you aren't going to stalk or assault anyone; I assume you don't plan on shouting sexual comments at the top of your lungs. Because if you plan on doing these things I don't think I'm going to be able to deter you by posting on a forum.

This mentality isn't even practical; are you expected to not assess weather or not you find someone sexually appealing before you make any sort of attempts to court or otherwise become intimate with them? This is setting up an impossible standard.

I get that some people find the very act of flirtation annoying, but I will never understand why; you can't expect people to stop doing something that is otherwise totally normal and harmless because you personally don't like it.

 

[Strazdas]

Yes, they really want it, they just complain about it because... mumblemumblemumble.

because some people like to complain
because some people dont know what they want
because some people get off by punishing others
plenty of reasons. people arent emotionally stable most of the time.

Okay, sure. They, of course, are then entitled to refer to you as that creepy pervert who made them uncomfortable and report such a thing to people who may not like creepy perverts making their attendees uncomfortable.

yes they are, as long as the people they report to understand that i havent done anything illegal. its their own fault if you misunderstand me looking at them though.

In case you didn't notice, lots of people have said a look is fine.

i will refer to you to post number 222 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.856681-Poll-Sexy-convention-costumes-okay-to-stare?page=7#21229830] regarding this.

I hear they appreciate that kind of thing and it in no way makes you come across badly at all.

i dont care what they appreciate. if they are incapable of being consistent even for a day with their desires its not my problem.

 

[Strazdas]

Ah yes, the trifecta of disregarding any issue a woman brings up. "They just like to *****," "I know what they really want," and "they're vile temptresses out to ruin men." Weird how all of these are more likely to you then them not actually wanting what you think they want. Well, I say weird, but it's not that surprising, actually.

well if they intentionaly dress to be looked at and then complain about people looking at them then yes, they do not know what they want.

Yes, ultreos's ranting about things, how utterly insightful. Considering most people seem to take issue with making women uncomfortable his post amounts to nothing. Sure, it'd be nice if men went around not being creeps, but that's not going to happen, so they could at least do it in a way that didn't make the experience worse for the women.

being unconfortable because somone looked at you is like being unconfortable because you responded to me - nothing more than a whine.

It would be nice if looking at somone wasnt automatically labeled a creep, but yeah, people like their misconceptions.

If they are incapable of being consistent with what?

with what they want. they dress up to be looked at and then dont wnat to be looked at. If they didnt want to be looked at they should have chosen to use regular clothes.

staring = looking. unless you somehow are going to incline somehow amount of time your looking at something suddenly turns into no longer looking.

I never condoned harassing so im not sure why you bring that up, running out of argumens or something?

 

[Vegosiux]

This thread isn't about the legality of it, but whether it's right or not. If laws were the only basis for which people exhibited self control we'd live in a pretty terrible world.

There'd be a whole lot less of fraud and murdering going on all over the place, though. I'm not sure it'd be half-bad. But only if there was a law against influencing laws and lawmaking. Because otherwise people would try that to get rid of the laws they don't like, but if everyone obeys every law and there's a law saying you can't try to change laws to suit you...

 

[SweetShark]

Like a friend of mine said:
"Half a shame for him, half a shame for me"

If she had a problem to wear a sexy outfit and then complain to the others why they look at her, she should had thought about that in the first place.

Or the girls they go to the beach half-naked. Is it my problem I stare at them? Maybe, but I will watch and I will enjoy it because it wasn't my "mistake".

If a girl complain to me, at least I have a solid reason why I stare to her.

Peace.