Poll: Should Anita Sarkeesian debate games that are within her cultural means?

[Jiggle Counter]

Before I begin, english is my second language, I had to reword a lot of the words to avoid possible misinterpretation. If you see something wrong, then tell me.

I've always thought that Anita Sarkeesian shouldn't deconstruct gaming as a whole, see...

It's normal to me when a white Canadian-American lady barks at other white Canadian/American game devs cause that's her own race, and they all live together in the same place and share the same culture. But when a white Canadian-American lady barks at Japanese games or any other race, I end up finding it awkward. Not for racism issues, no, but simply because it just doesn't work. We all know Mario has that damsel in distress trope, but it's from Japan.

I know feminism is something that was founded simply because our world is sick and we treat our women like second-class citizens, and some places worse. I still find that Anita Sarkeesian, regardless of her valid or non-valid points, has that American mentality where she shares her views (taking examples from games of all cultures) with the "world". Or at least to people who speak english.

I've seen small amounts of english speaking devs respond to her, even reply to her, saying that in the future they will heed her words and apply it to their games. That's good, that's great, this is progress for her.

The thing is, Japan, who is a different culture who speaks a different language, maybe aren't aware that some of their games (new or old) offend some people. I mean, I'm certain that Anita Sarkeesian hasn't made a video for the Japanese game devs to hear.

What I'm saying is, maybe she should focus on her Canadian/American society first. It's easier to reach, easier to communicate with. Target the Candadian/American game devs only.

At the end of the day, IF she can get across to Canada and America as a whole, then someone somewhere is gonna tell the Japanese gaming machine that there isn't a viable market in Canada or America for games with... Well... Perversely sexualized content? Call it whatever you want. And then IF the rest of the world wants to join, then they will when they're ready.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, she shouldn't deconstruct gaming as a whole, cause it's made by different people from different cultures all around the world. She can't just make YouTube videos debating about a collection of multicultural games and assume everyone will see it and understand the concerns or issues.

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

I'm starting to get sick of american "superiority" over japanese media, all those posts about how perverted their media because they don't treat sex like some sort of curse, the best example is Dragon's crown that had the audacity to have a female with LARGE BREASTS, oh the horror.

Anita in general has the same credibility has the guy who watched Citizen Kane and now proclaims he "knows" films, not to mention if you want to make an adult discussion don't name it like a wrestling match-Tropes vs. women.

Great now Im imagining Anita Sarkesian delivering the promo Hulk Hogan gave to Ric Flair challenging him to a Yapapi strap match, except shes screaming about misogynists

Spoiler: What I'm talking about

 

[Zontar]

Anita in general has the same credibility has the guy who watched Citizen Kane and now proclaims he "knows" films, not to mention if you want to make an adult discussion don't name it like a wrestling match-Tropes vs. women.

I have to disagree, someone who watched Citizen Kane can at least make the claim that they actually watched Citizen Kane, and that's an order of magnitude more effort then Anita has made when it comes to looking at video games.

 

[The Lunatic]

It's more than a little pointless.

It just shows arrogance though, really.

I'd be surprised if anyone making games in Japan has even ever heard of her.

 

[Jiggle Counter]

I'd be surprised if anyone making games in Japan has even ever heard of her.

Do you think she could use some of her donated funds to bring awareness to Japanese media via, oh I don't know, a translator or something?

 

[newfoundsky]

This is like asking "Is rape okay if another culture says it's okay... as long as it's 'over there'"

Of course not, and there are certain overtly objectifying tropes in Japanese media that we should address and pressure the industry to correct, no matter what their culture says is and is not acceptable.

 

[Bellvedere]

I don't think it's an issue whether a game was created by Japanese developers or not. Regardless of the cultural differences of the creators you're still talking about games that are translated (and sometimes localized) into English and enjoyed by gamers from America and other English Speaking Western Nations. For the most part we don't understand the game within the specific Japanese cultural context it may have been created but in terms of our own culture, so if it's sexist in terms of Western English-speaking cultures and played by people from Western English-speaking cultures then it's a relevant discussion topic to those people.

If it were being suggested Anita Sarkeesians criticisms are directed only at game developers then it's probably true that English videos on youtube isn't the best way to speak to Japanese game devs, however that's not the case. She wants to speak to the people playing games (at least) as much the people creating games. She argues that the persistence of negative stereotypes in games normalizes those stereotypes, so whilst more positive portrayals of women are desirable (and there's no reason that can't be pushed for from the consumer side), even getting people to think about the sorts of stereotypes they see and why they might be negative is also a step in the right direction.

 

[Verlander]

There's a third person in the above formula that you've missed: the audience.

Anita speaks to her audience, who act on it accordingly. She's not one person telling games devs what to do, that wouldn't work. No one would listen to her. She speaks to her audience, who then make the decision on whether or not to buy games.

I would imagine her audience aren't Japanese, and so I doubt Japanese developers would pay her any attention. They already cherry pick what games they feel would have an audience over here (for right or wrong), and I can't imagine she has the power to impact that.

 

[AntiChri5]

This is like asking "Is rape okay if another culture says it's okay... as long as it's 'over there'"

Of course not, and there are certain overtly objectifying tropes in Japanese media that we should address and pressure the industry to correct, no matter what their culture says is and is not acceptable.

Yes, because a panty-shot of a fictional character is on par with rape... Are you serious?

He was taking the argument to it's ultimate logical extreme to demonstrate it's flaws. He isn't saying japanese games mistreating women is the same as rape.

 

[Fappy]

I don't think we're in any position to critique their sexuality when ours is equally as fucked up (puritan mentality for the lose). That said, I do think we have the right to critique cultures and their media for poorly representing women. It can be hard to separate those two worlds sometimes, but they are very different.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

I have a bit of a problem with this thread. It's well intentioned, and arguably very reasonable. But it tends to help frame Sarkeesian as The Only Feminist In The Village Industry, ergo the entire discourse is set by her strengths, her weaknesses. Are we really talking about Anita, herself, or just using her as an example? Because that distinction needs to be made.

As for the general question: yes, I do believe someone critiquing a very globalised medium has the right to analyse outside their own cultural borders. Mario, as an example cited, has been a part of most of our lives to some degree. I've never bought a Nintendo system, and I likely never will, but I played various Mario's on the NES, SNES, and GameBoy growing up - as did Sarkeesian, presumably. That example is a part of gaming culture, not just Japanese, or North American, or European.

Should people tread lightly around products contextualised by/in other cultures? Ideally, yes. To better understand, say, the films of Akira Kurosawa, you ideally need to be informed about the popular genres of films at the time - the cultural milieu he was working within, and sometimes against. You don't need to be Japanese to gain that level of critical understanding.

If we're talking Anita specifically (again... ), then for the examples I remember her using (stuff like Mario, Bayonetta - very familiar IP's in the West) are perfectly within her sphere of understanding/experience.[footnote]NOTE TO HAIR-TRIGGER DIMWITS: I'm saying nothing on whether she used the examples well, only that I believe she absolutely and reasonably can comment.[/footnote]

 

[NoeL]

I don't quite understand the poll question so I won't vote, but I'll give my 2 cents on what your post said.

In short, no I don't think she should exclude games from non-English-speaking devs because they still serve to support her argument. I think it's a great idea to have her videos translated into as many different languages as possible though, so that the devs themselves can understand her criticisms directly.

Also, while I don't think you actually made the claim, I don't think something being part of a foreign culture excludes it from criticism. I can criticise other cultures, they can criticise mine, and hopefully in doing so we'll both learn how to make our cultures better.

It's still a fallacy, because as I said, it's not a real human being, nobody actually gets hurt from it.

People are free to have differing opinions, and they can be discussed. You might not think these tropes are objectifying because of reasons, other people might think they ARE objectifying because of reasons, and you can both state those reasons and try to reach an agreement. Personally I think you're dismissing his claim by choosing to look solely at animated characters. The same objectionable tropes that show up in video games also show up in live-action media. Hell, Japanese porn alone is enough to argue there's a massive problem with how the culture sees women, since it's almost entirely rape fantasy.

 

[PainInTheAssInternet]

Being a part of another culture does not protect you from criticism. There's such a thing as international politics, and what is all that about if not critiquing each other? Why would you want to limit what we can learn from one another?

 

[Wan Shi Tong]

I know what you're saying inu-kun, but try to think of the way works of fiction influence people. On Japanese iphones you can't disable the shutter sound when taking a picture, because sneaking an up-skirt photo is so common.

Did manga cause this up-skirt plague? I'm not even going to research the answer because I'm willing to bet money (which I am dangerously low on) that the answer is no. Does manga perpetuate the problem by constantly illustrating it? I believe that manga is at some fault, and do my best to only buy manga that refrains from that trope.

My point is, even though I like manga as much as the next guy, I'm willing to admit there are faults in it.

 

[Harpalyce]

If Japanese games display examples of horrible sexism of the type that is endemic to video games, then yes, it's perfectly all right for feminists to critique it. Not everything can be handwaved as "oh well those Japanese are so different you know", especially if it's being marketed and sold to an international audience. Darth Rosenberg has nailed it in more specific terms.

People seem oddly afraid of feminist critiques. Maybe it's like they know the desire for constant panty shots and tits that defy physics doesn't speak well to them viewing female characters as more than just objects...