Poll: Should feminists be involved with anime mediums?

[Casual Shinji]

Oh look, it's the Messiah of Anime, the one true Fan, here to show us lowly Westerns what it's all about.

Seriously, you're providing oodles of entertainment with these... "discussions", but Jesus Christ... Oh my God!

Looking forward to the next meltdown!

 

[NotEvenOnce]

You called her names and told her to kill herself? And you're proud of it? Oh yeah, you were definitely in the wrong and deserved that ban. And coupled with the impression you're other threads have given, I'd say it's probably time to reconsider that attitude of yours and grow up a little.

Not really the point I am making, which is why I removed the hideousness of the exchange. The point is, when a medium is just too unattractive for shallow-minded people to accept, why do they insist on pursuing it? I just don't understand why these people do so, other than to annoy people like myself. This can also be said for the feminists or SJWs that target the mainstream gaming media these days.

The question you asked was whether we believe you were justified in how you reacted to this person's opinion. It isn't relevant to the "point" you're making, but it's relevant to the question you asked. No, frankly, I don't believe you were. You are by all means entitled to your views of feminism, and you're opinions towards it's influence on your hobby. What you're not entitled to is a lack of basic cause and effect responsibility for your actions. You sugar coated your half of the exchange, be it intentionally or not, by "removing the hideousness", therefore slanting the arguement slightly in your favour. Telling someone to kill themselves is neither productive nor helping your case in trying to help your hobby move forward in the direction you seem to want it to. Hate breeds hate, and responses like that are probably a large part of why whoever this person is thinks there's a problem in the first place. She has as much a right to believe what she believes as you do, and I'd be willing to bet she was a lot more civil and polite about it than you were.

The fact that you consider coming "out of nowhere" and "savagely" insulting someone something to be proud of is exactly the kind of rhetoric that led to the term social justice WARRIOR. It doesn't seem to be about improving your hobby, it's about fighting someone you don't agree with against all odds.

TL;DR
Are you allowed your opinion, yes. Are you justified in acting like a child because you don't like something, no.
Do Feminists have the right to contribute to anime as a medium. Yes
Do I believe they should contribute, no; but only because I consider "feminism" to be a negatively loaded term, and I don't believe many productive equal rights activists would use it anymore.

 

[Armadox]

The problem is that first drafts, while they technically exist, don't get animated, released, get voice actor work done, or are really "created" in any meaningful sense.

If the original is allowed to exist in a realized and meaningful sense, then sure, there's certainly no problem with people taking it and doing whatever they want with it, but by your logic, some bullshit dream i had has the same weight as a finished game, since technically they both existed at some point in some form, and your line of reasoning says that their being actually created in various forms is meaningless.

Hundreds of pilot episodes are made daily that never see the light of day. If some bullshit dream you had was penned out and made, then it holds weight. If you never once make it, then you can not have someone else modify it. If it's modified in the womb, it's not the original thing to begin with, you'd have never known it existed and you'll have accepted the new thing in it's place. Your.. *sigh*

I can not fathom how you weep for unborn children, my friend, but unless you can call them by name you weep for nothing. By my logic every option you have is by itself equal to the option someone else has, and if you by some means find yourself incapable of making your desired content in one manner, you can be sure as hell you can make it another. If you believed in your dream so much, you would force it into existence, by taking it to different publishers, self publishing, different media or format but you will have it out there somehow. If they make a thing, then you can't simply assume they didn't make something else (it's ideological opposite) instead.

Also, follow your bullshit dream my friend, the world always needs more..

 

[Zakarath]

snip

Yea, rape is used as an act of war. Do you know what starcraft is? IT'S A GAME ABOUT FUCKING WAR! It's a game about three races trying to commit genocide on each other.

No, you can't just use your personal idea of what is or isn't politically correct to destroy every form of art you disagree with.

You don't have to buy shadows of mordor, but you're a piece of shit if you say others aren't allowed to buy it.

You can ***** all you want about sexualization, but you're a piece of shit if you try and ban porn.

Any form of civil rights looses legitimacy when it starts promoting superiority over equality. It is then a hate movement.

You know that men are more objectified than women in games? Objectified is to be treated as an object, a standard video game enemy fits this description perfectly, no personality, no characterization, just show up to serve as something to mindlessly murder. There are exponentially more of these characters in games than there are the over-sexualized female character everyone pictures when the word "objectification" is used. More men are objectified in games, to a much more heinous end, so you have no weight behind your frivolous bitching about female objectification in games while it pales pathetically in comparison to the hordes of generic male soldiers the player character is expected to mindlessly murder if they wish to progress. That's GTA, but go on, tell me how it's sexist against women when so many more men FUCKING DIE.

But of course, dying in droves in wars, and the workplace, and being expected to die if the choice is between you and a female's life pales in comparison with someone tricking you into touching their dick right?

I hate to butt in to these little disputes, but what with how everything you just typed is wholly irrelevant nonsense (some might use the term 'straw man argument') that doesn't really relate to what Vault was saying, I couldn't really resist.

I'm glad I got this chance to show you the error of your ways.

 

[Erttheking]

I don't know, anime is a medium by itself, it's not a single genre and it's unique enough to be apart of western animation.

About the topic, I kinda have to agree, despite that popular media tries to force us to let others insult our hobbies for them feeling superior I am getting sick of people not watching things and labeling them by tropes.

But if someone labels and entire type of gaming for "sexism" despite: A) not all Vn contain hentai. B) having plenty of VN's for females and C) some of them like fate has "clean" version and the hentai is more to boost sales. Them yes, fuck them.

Finally, a rational person. Yes, I agree with what you say: Western propaganda is a certain type of taint that has a sad influence on people. And with the way the poll is not quite one-sided yet, I am interested to see where this goes.

You're heads over heels falling for the bias effect here. It is not healthy for intellectual discussion.

OT: Frankly I think anime needs feminism more than most mediums considering it comes from a pretty patriarchal culture where women are pressured to only be moms and teachers, and hey, gotta start somewhere.

That and I'd like a few more shows without fanservice that downright hurts the plot and characters.

EDIT: *Looks at this page* We're still talking about anime right?

 

[Vault101]

Way to waste a ton of space. Yea, rape is used as an act of war. Do you know what starcraft is? IT'S A GAME ABOUT FUCKING WAR! It's a game about three races trying to commit genocide on each other.

which is beside the point

[quote/]No, you can't just use your personal idea of what is or isn't politically correct to destroy every form of art you disagree with.[/quote]
no I'd use a flamethrower

except I don't have a flamethrower nor the desire to destroy art

hyperbole much?

[quote/]You don't have to buy shadows of mordor, but you're a piece of shit if you say others aren't allowed to buy it.[/quote]
I didn't say that, but am I a peice of shit for saying Shadow of Mordor is sexist?

[quote/]You can ***** all you want about sexualization, but you're a piece of shit if you try and ban porn.[/quote]
I didn't say that, but am I a peice of shit for pointing out porn is potentially sexist and/or enocuraging others to think about porn?

[quote/]Any form of civil rights looses legitimacy when it starts promoting superiority over equality. It is then a hate movement.[/quote]
and as often with reactionary attitudes "superiority" can come under just about anything

[quote/]You know that men are more objectified than women in games?[/quote]
ohhhhhkay

its very clear that our versions of reality are rather different

and these arguments can be cut down in terms of time wasting if we acknowledge our differing base assumptions

I believe people tend to think of the world as a kind of "yin and yang" thing where all "opposites" are equal and therefore "cancel" each other out

my base assumption is that there is sexism against women (in this in context) in the media we consume

your base assumption is either there isn't or that male representation is just as bad or worse <-which to me doesn't make a whole lot of sense considering guys don't point this out unless its to "counter" criticism [sub/]funny that[/sub]

essentially what I'm saying is we may be wasting our time

 

[Vault101]

>"so that Video I saw on facebook of a man tricking a female security gaurd into touching his erect dick with a trick fanny pack-"

Is a fucking joke as a symbol of oppression. I'd touch all the dicks in the world if it would stop this new-age sexism.

ohhh

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

OOOOOHHHHHH YOU DID NOT, YOU DID EFFING NOT


ok while I honest to god believe that representation in media IS an issue worth discussing, lets step out of the realm of fiction for a second

this is something you [b/]need[/b] to understand

[b/]it was not a joke[/b]

oh...oh sure he it was a joke but it wasn't

its NOT ok to expose yourself to someone like that

its NOT funny to expose yourself to someone like that

I'm pretty sure (maybe depending on on contact) that classifies as sexual assault

I'm pretty sure were that to happen to quite a few women they would feel violated, upset and probably humiliated, I know I would

because "HUUR HUR IF I GET A GIRL TO TOUCH MY DICK ITS FUNNY" <-its not

NO ITS NOT, YOUR DICK IS NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE UNIVERSE ITS NOT FUNNY TO TRICK SOMEONE INTO TOUCHING YOUR DICK KEEP YOUR DICK TO YOURSELF

ITS GROSS

and that video its precisely why feminism is important,because for some fucked up reason that guy thourght it would be funny, and he was so proud of himself it was sickening

and I know you don't understand but I am dead serious here because this isn't fictional characters this is real life, real life where women put up with this shit day to day and someone has the fucking audacity to say its a joke

 

[Vault101]

[snipt.

aaand there you go again

you really need to ask yourself what your problem is because its not the games

its never the games

its the people who criticize the games

 

[Erttheking]

It does actually. Vault was paining this picture of how horrible it is to be a woman, and i simply responded by saying it isn't a whole lot better being a man.

She says saying rape in starcraft is unacceptable, as it's an act of war, i point out starcraft is a game about warfare. I don't see how this is a strawman. It's relating to the context of the phrase, and how war IS the context, as it's a game about war.

Or did she not say anything about starcraft?

Vault says objectification of women in games is unacceptable, i point out that men in games are far more objectified, and thus it is rather tactless to complain about their objectification while men are more objectified.

>"so that Video I saw on facebook of a man tricking a female security gaurd into touching his erect dick with a trick fanny pack-"

Is a fucking joke as a symbol of oppression. I'd touch all the dicks in the world if it would stop this new-age sexism.


>"and the sexism in GTA?"

Is a fucking joke when you consider how many more men die.

>"objectification?"

Is a fucking joke because not every single character can be fully realized when we don't live in a utopia where all games get infinate time and resources to flesh out every minor character. And towards women, is more of a joke since objectification of women characters is completely dwarfed by objectification of men characters in games.

>"the lack of female protagonists?"

There's a legitimate issue here, but i don't really have a solution.

Considering Kerrigan in Starcraft is a waif while all the men are big burly and in power armor, I'd be willing to put down hard money that they completely mess up the representation of rape. Then again apparently a good chunk of Heart of the Swarm is the main hero "dying" at the very start and the writers assuming we're stupid enough buy it, and sure enough he's still alive. I don't expect good writing from something that pulled that.

Yeah, there are plenty of objectified men in gaming but there are plenty of NON-objectified men to balance things out. How many non-objectified women are there? A whole lot less.

A joke? A joke? Sexual harassment is a joke to you? ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS!?

I keep seeing people pull the "men die in games a lot" card, like it somehow disproves every single criticism against the portrayl of women in gaming. First of all, if this bothers you so much, how come you're only bringing it up to shut Vault up? Second of all, yes men get killed a lot in video games...by other men. Who are not being objectified. So...we have it pretty good. Most video games have non-objectified men front and center. So yeah. This argument isn't convincing.

Women have it easy compared to mean? Oh please. Some games nowadays have one female character among an entire cast of men, if they're lucky. Don't pull that "women have it easy" card. The industry is run by men to carter to men. Don't act like we're the victims here, it's simply being dishonest. Then again after you said you consider sexual harassment is a joke, I have to question if you really appreciate the problems women have to go through.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Yeah, are these actually happening in the thread? If not I fail to see the relevance.