Poll: Should National Service be introduced

[The Magical Hobo]

Also, your definition of angst fits perfectly with my argument, I would say that you have "fear or anxiety" about growing up, and dealing with the real world.

Real world being what now? In your definition.

Fair question, dealing with the "real world" to me means understanding that the world isn't about you, that other people exist and deserve the same rights and opportunities as you, and above all, that life isn't fair and just, and things don't always fall perfectly into place

 

[PurpleRain]

Also, your definition of angst fits perfectly with my argument, I would say that you have "fear or anxiety" about growing up, and dealing with the real world.

Real world being what now? In your definition.

Fair question, dealing with the "real world" to me means understanding that the world isn't about you, that other people exist and deserve the same rights and opportunities as you, and above all, that life isn't fair and just, and things don't always fall perfectly into place

Exactly. So why should people serve in the military? They deserve the same rights as everyone and there's quite a lot out there that are not patriotic and don't care about the military. This can easily be turned back to you to say things don't always fall perfectly into place. Some people don't want that order.

EDIT

Also, should the phrase: 'other people exist and deserve the same rights and opportunities as you' also mean that we shouldn't spend so on the army and use that money for rightous goals like feeding people?

 

[historybuff]

No way. Last time the US military tried the draft in the 60s, we told them to fuck themselves. And what happens if every country is in such a state?

So, no. Let military be an option for people who WANT to be there. You're biased and that's great for you but I want some freedom in my life. My parents disciplined me. I don't need the military to order me around. I'm adult. I'd rather be in college, studying abroad.

 

[Mychas]

You know, I thought about this before, and what I came up with is that college and/or university mandatory (with tuition payed for the government).
Those incapable of getting into college/university should be forced to at least SOMEHOW contribute to society.
I'm sure most 1st world countries would be able to all this tuition, I think one of the main reasons people end up in poverty is because they didn't even have a chance to get a good education.

 

[The Magical Hobo]

Also, your definition of angst fits perfectly with my argument, I would say that you have "fear or anxiety" about growing up, and dealing with the real world.

Real world being what now? In your definition.

Fair question, dealing with the "real world" to me means understanding that the world isn't about you, that other people exist and deserve the same rights and opportunities as you, and above all, that life isn't fair and just, and things don't always fall perfectly into place

Exactly. So why should people serve in the military? They deserve the same rights as everyone and there's quite a lot out there that are not patriotic and don't care about the military. This can easily be turned back to you to say things don't always fall perfectly into place. Some people don't want that order.

Okay, for one, I never said military service, I pretty clearly defined it as any service that benefits your country or community. Obviously said service would have to be approved by the government, but military service is just a very small aspect of national service.

 

[Bat Vader]

Also, your definition of angst fits perfectly with my argument, I would say that you have "fear or anxiety" about growing up, and dealing with the real world.

Real world being what now? In your definition.

Fair question, dealing with the "real world" to me means understanding that the world isn't about you, that other people exist and deserve the same rights and opportunities as you, and above all, that life isn't fair and just, and things don't always fall perfectly into place

Of course the world is not fair. You either force things into place so you can reap the benefits or say fuck it. The isn't about anyone that is why people force to be about them.

 

[PurpleRain]

Also, your definition of angst fits perfectly with my argument, I would say that you have "fear or anxiety" about growing up, and dealing with the real world.

Real world being what now? In your definition.

Fair question, dealing with the "real world" to me means understanding that the world isn't about you, that other people exist and deserve the same rights and opportunities as you, and above all, that life isn't fair and just, and things don't always fall perfectly into place

Exactly. So why should people serve in the military? They deserve the same rights as everyone and there's quite a lot out there that are not patriotic and don't care about the military. This can easily be turned back to you to say things don't always fall perfectly into place. Some people don't want that order.

Okay, for one, I never said military service, I pretty clearly defined it as any service that benefits your country or community. Obviously said service would have to be approved by the government, but military service is just a very small aspect of national service.

Any kind of service. I don't want to serve under anyone. I don't want to be a slave to a government or country.

 

[Bat Vader]

First, if you're the type of person who would have a mental breakdown over two years of getting paid to help people, you belong in a mental institution.

Second, I've seen less angst on poetry websites. Learn some respect, grow a pair, and take a step into the real world.

I don't deal well with being controlled.
And I wouldn't have a breakdown. I'd just be pissed. I'm sure you've gotten angry before - should we throw you into a padded room? I doubt you think you deserve such.
If I happen to kill a bunch of people who stole two years of my life, well, that's their fault for not realizing my many flaws and for instituting such a stupid system in the first place.

Furthermore, who the fuck am I supposed to be respecting? You? You don't deserve my respect.
If you want it, if you need the approval and love of strangers over the internet so much, then earn it.

But hey. You could just keep insulting me instead.
Because I care what you think. I do. I really do.

Furthermore: "Angst is a German, Danish, Norwegian and Dutch word for fear or anxiety."
Wikipedia is your friend.

Ok, I think we've gotten a little bit off topic here, so I'd rather you contribute to the thread instead of telling everybody that you're angry for a reason you haven't really elaborated on.

Also, your definition of angst fits perfectly with my argument, I would say that you have "fear or anxiety" about growing up, and dealing with the real world.

Not really. He just does not want to be controlled. If I was to be controlled I would rebel as well. I should be given a choice to join something it should not be forced.

 

[The Magical Hobo]

People care about a country they *chose* to help build, or they *needed* to rebuild. There's a difference.

I dont disagree that people would care more if they had volunteered, however not everyone will choose to help build their country, so by putting people to work for their country or community they will at least gain an appreciation for those who do volunteer, and they might decide that they care about their country, and enjoy working to improve it.

 

[PersianLlama]

*snip*

...

Do you know what Iran and North Korea are doing? IMPROVING AND EXPANDING ITS MILITARY!

If they wanted they can go to war with sticks and stones, but they can't so they must improve and expand their military, to go to war.

And its not only on the 21st Century its been like this since ever. Money, Greed and Power.

I wouldn't say Iran is doing as much as North Korea for their military, or much at all, but who knows? Ahmedinejad is a crazy fool. I visited two weeks ago, doesn't seem like it, and the average person wants the guy that's not Ahmadinejad to win the elections on friday (Edit: Nobody there wants to go to war). The only problem is, they obviously rig the vote, otherwise Ahmadidumbass would've never won in the first place.

Too bad I'm not there right now, I believe it's 15 (or 16, I forget) to vote.

Well, getting nuclear power in which the main goal is to create weapons is a form of expanding and improving your military.

Also? WoW 15 years old to vote? Thats a great way to rally crazy kids that have 0 political knowlodge.(Not like 18 year olds do a better job but you get the idea.)

Do you want the old Islamic conservatives running all the vote?
But yeah I know what you mean by that. I was really surprised by it.

 

[puppydogvaan]

Personally, I think it would be a good idea that would whip people into shape.

But it would never work in America. Just like a lot of things, it sounds good on paper (do work for your country) but would never happen like that in real life (mass teen exodus to Canada).

I certainly don't think it should ever be tried in America. Epic fail.

 

[oliveira8]

*snip*

Betewen the old never change voters and the easy impressed kids with nukes, let the Devil come and choose which one is worst.

 

[Naeo]

It's a utilitarian idea, I grant that. Larger army, and more people would be in it that normally wouldn't.

But that means less people doing other things for the economy, like working in large corporations. And there's the issue of people who get scarred by whatever happens to them in war being larger and those who are less likely to be as psychologically resistant and who are only doing it due to mandate.

And there's the cultural impact. More people who went to war, more people in the military mindset, more products of the military. And frankly, I see the military as "imprinting someone else's beliefs into your own mind" and creating a subservient mindset, or trying to. Easier to control the peoples' minds.

Further we'd be far more war-mongering. Remember Sparta? I grant the DRASTIC difference (mandatory basically life service in the military versus minimum two years), but still- war-mongering, moreso than we already are.

But, I do say it would be nice to see a (hopefully) fitter population in general, and a population with greater discipline. But there's also the problem of if we're training everyone with weapons, it's that much easier for a crazy guy to go on a shooting spree if he really knows what he's doing.

 

[The Magical Hobo]

Okay i'm gonna try to answer everyone at once here.

First of all national service isn't slavery. In national service, if its in your community, you still get to live in your home. If it wasn't, housing would be provided. You get paid at least minimum wage, for lower level work, and for higher level work you would get paid accordingly. You get to choose what type of work you do, the only difference between national service and a normal job is that you are working for your country.

Second, its not really being "controlled" any more than any other job, you are employed and you usually have to do what your boss tells you to. Also its not "being controlled" you should care about your country. If you don't agree with certain aspects of your country, you work to better it, that is the whole point of national service.

 

[captainwalrus]

If it were to be a national service program that didn't consist solely of military duty, then I'd support it. I mean, having a service program where you're committed for a length of time to help build national infrastructure, perform humanitarian missions, help charity organizations, or even just to maintain your own community wouldn't be a half-bad idea.

 

[The Magical Hobo]

People care about a country they *chose* to help build, or they *needed* to rebuild. There's a difference.

I dont disagree that people would care more if they had volunteered, however not everyone will choose to help build their country, so by putting people to work for their country or community they will at least gain an appreciation for those who do volunteer, and they might decide that they care about their country, and enjoy working to improve it.

Or people could come to resent their country or community for taking away their liberty, and will then decide to *never* volunteer and to *not* care about their country.

Then that is their choice, but if they weren't going to volunteer time for their country, and they already didn't care about it, nothing is really lost, and at least for those two years their countrymen benefitted from their work.