Poll: Sooooo... Kill La Kill?

[Ishal]

Then again, I had similar reactions to Guren Lagann. Never saw the appeal. I don't even like Cowboy Bebop, so as far as anime is concerned it's safe to say I have unorthodox tastes.

What do you think of Black Lagoon? I'm curious since I don't find Cowboy Bebob or Guren Lagann appealing either.

I thought black lagoon was alright. It's probably worth a watch if not just to experience Balalaika. Despite sharing her name with a Russian instrument because Japan sucks at foreign names; she is is probably one of the most "trope defying" female characters in anime.

I'm not an anime fan, despite having a good handful that I adore, not just like. I'm under no illusion that for every one of them there are 10+ that are absolute garbage. That said, I think Balalaika isn't the only one of the trope defying characters there, but I agree she's a rarity when looking at most other anime. Revy is close to being one of my favorite female protagonists in all media. The show is deep, without really being deep. Most characters have just enough to them to be engaging without going overboard. This is something I rarely see in any other anime.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

Eh, when I had first heard about this anime being released on another forum, I felt that it would be another excuse for anime to have a teenage girl dressing in very skimpy 'battle armor.'

When the anime was released and I saw the first episode, I was thoroughly disappointed. There was so much missed potential to making this anime on the same level of epic as Gurren Lagann; instead they choose to focus on the aforementioned skimpy battle armor, a lot of suggested nudity, and nude male humility.

I guess I'll just stick to Star Driver to get a small quick-fix of Gurren Lagann styled epic moments.

 

[Kittyhawk]

I admit I was a bit negative on the suit at first, because we are so used to so much anime shooting fan service at us for the sake of it. After watching four episodes of Kill La Kill, I'm happy to say I really enjoyed it and the suit is about as silly as Bayonetta's hair outfit, but talks back.

Its story is cliched Project A-Ko style hero fun, but the execution is very good. I think its my favourite anime this season actually, because its doing so much of what much anime should be going. I doubted them with this project after Inferno Cop, but kudos to Trigger and I eat humble pie, its great fun tale, cool characters and cool animation.

I'm this close to suggesting Studio Trigger run the entire anime industry, because they might be able to save it from the cliff its standing on.

 

[Zak757]

I loved Black Lagoon. Not a trace of slapstick anywhere in it, and I can't remember any comedy either.

No comedy? Either the sub is RADICALLY different than the dub, you watched a completely different show than me, or I have a terrible sense of humor. There is plenty of pitch black humor in Black Lagoon from what I can remember. Normally death isn't something to be taken lightly, but when Black Lagoon characters (who are all scum of the Earth) die in amusing ways, it makes me laugh. Or maybe it's just Revy's crude, rude and crass way of speaking that cracks me up.

 

[SlaveNumber23]

I've seen the first 3 episodes and I'm loving it, it has a very energetic style to it that I find magnetic. It doesn't take itself too seriously and is just a big lovable ball of fun.

 

[Dr. Cakey]

I enjoy it greatly, but for me it doesn't really compare to SnK, in talk about new great anime. I just loved it on a completely different level, but that's just my opinion.

FUK U ATTACK ON OVERHYPED SHIT IS THE WORST ANIME OF ALL TIME

...said /r/anime. Yes, I'm afraid that since Attack on Titan has ended, it is now terrible. That's how it works - once a popular anime ends, it becomes bad. I'm sorry no one told you.

I also have never watched Gurren Lagann. It has just never looked that interesting to me visually or setting wise.
So I'm getting that it's a really manly show. Are there any other features to mention that would make me interested in watching it? Like great story telling, great characters, that sort of stuff?

For me, personally, TTGL's first quarter isn't very interesting, but everything after that just gets better and better. Hiroyuki Imaishi, who directed both KLK and TTGL, among others, has a very distinctive style both to the anime he makes and the way they look. It feels quite similar to KLK, only less frenetic. As to what is great about it...that's a bit tricky to say. I think it tells a really excellent coming-of-age narrative and develops its characters quite well, but other people feel like it has a shallow story and one-dimensional characters.

I wouldn't normally say I hate it, but so so many shows are like this now I'm really getting fucking sick of it.

Yes, so many shows, like...um...Gurren Lagann...which came out seven years ago...and...um...is Japan hiding the awesome anime from me or something?

If that means I'm some kind of easily pleased, dirty peasant of the anime community then so be it, I'll enjoy this actual fun show, you can sod off and watch your depressing, pretentious, symbolism heavy, snobbish wankery.

But...but...I want to pretentiously and snobbishly analyze the symbolism of Kill la Kill. C-c-can I do that...? =(

Or, if you prefer this response:

No, you can't watch an actual fun show. Now go and watch a serious show. Like Kyousougiga [https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UsIjXQO3P3s/UNyUSnWmOFI/AAAAAAAAIFo/Dv1taIZXQxc/s800/Screen%2520shot%25202012-12-24%2520at%25205.10.59%2520PM.png].

As opposed to Little Witch Academia which didn't have nearly enough tits, ass, and "hoorah" speech. But it's okay since Kill la Kill points to it's own stupid anime cliches and laughs, so now it's brilliant. Post-ironic skeezing is totally fine.

Apparently this is now also the savior of anime for doing the exact same thing that's been killing anime for the past decade.

Actually, there was a massive amount of buzz around LWA, you've just chosen to forget about it. You may recall it made its Kickstarter goal in like five seconds.

"Post-Ironic Skeezing" would 1) make a good band name, and 2) should be the name of an Evangelion episode. Or would that be "post-modern skeezing"?

LWA was a breath of fresh air in an industry dominated by a mentallity of "Make sure the character design is tantalizing so people will wanna buy figurines of it". It's this mentallity that's been killing anime for me.

Alright, let's do this. Let's take a look at Little Witch Academia's compatriots and see its breath-of-fresh-air-ness in action.

Four studios created projects for Anime Mirai in 2013. Trigger supplied LWA, Madhouse produced Death Billiards, Zexcs made Arve Rezzle, and lolGonzo gave us Ryo. Have you seen them all?

Of the four, two are good and two are bad, and the breakdown is exactly as you would expect, assuming you know about the studios in question. LWA we've already covered, and Death Billiards was actually kind of brilliant...I think. Either way, it has that slick, slightly Matrix-like "cool" to it that Madhouse does so well. Arve Rezzle was actually my favorite of the bunch, even though it's awful and skeezy to boot. Ryo was classic Gonzo - by which I mean, boring.

That aside, what you'd have noticed if you'd watch all of the Anime Mirai projects was that all of them - except Arve Rezzle, because fuck that thing was awful and yes it was still my favorite shut up - aren't fanservice-drenched and, being one-offs, aren't designed for figurines and such. Actually, the one best-suited for a figurine line-up would probably be LWA - or haven't you heard of "moe"?

Also, the fact that Attack on Titan was exactly what you're looking for and you still didn't like it may mean you have something of a Madonna/whore complex in regards to anime, so you may wish to rethink some things.

 

[Nazulu]

I wouldn't normally say I hate it, but so so many shows are like this now I'm really getting fucking sick of it.

Yes, so many shows, like...um...Gurren Lagann...which came out seven years ago...and...um...is Japan hiding the awesome anime from me or something?

I guess you can miss what I'm saying when you DON'T READ THE ENTIRE POST!

Fuck. I'm sick of passive aggressive posts.

You have received 3 warnings. Gee, colour me surprised.

 

[Fappy]

Was really unsure going in but I'm enjoying it so far. I'm a huge fan of both FLCL and Gurren Lagann, but the promotional stuff really put me off to the show's premise. Then I actually watched it. I usually dread fanservice in all its forms, but I like the idea of tackling the concept head-on and making it a central part of the story. In many ways the fanservice is the point, but not in the same way as every other anime out there. It's cool how it's playing it off as a parody of sorts that, to me, is also serving to enhance the whole coming of age (but for girls!) metaphor they are going for.

It's not perfect and I understand those that are turned off by its (fanservice) inclusion, but I feel the show's got a lot of potential and expect it to get deeper and deeper as it goes. My only concern is that they misstep one too many times in the narrative and sour the theme. The way they're approaching the metaphor is super risky... I just hope everything turns out well in the end.

 

[Dr. Cakey]

I wouldn't normally say I hate it, but so so many shows are like this now I'm really getting fucking sick of it.

Yes, so many shows, like...um...Gurren Lagann...which came out seven years ago...and...um...is Japan hiding the awesome anime from me or something?

I guess you can miss what I'm saying when you DON'T READ THE ENTIRE POST!

Fuck. I'm sick of passive aggressive posts.

Yeah while I'M sick of your FACE. So THERE.

You have received 3 warnings. Gee, colour me surprised.

One warning in three years, then three warnings in 24 hours (one of which was retracted). My personality, it seems, is not what it used to be.

And besides, don't you know that having more warnings makes you edgy and bodacious because FUCK THE POLICE?

 

[Nazulu]

Why is there a 'haven't seen it' option? Just go quickly to Youtube or some anime video site and check it out. This threads not going anywhere.

I wouldn't normally say I hate it, but so so many shows are like this now I'm really getting fucking sick of it.

Yes, so many shows, like...um...Gurren Lagann...which came out seven years ago...and...um...is Japan hiding the awesome anime from me or something?

I guess you can miss what I'm saying when you DON'T READ THE ENTIRE POST!

Fuck. I'm sick of passive aggressive posts.

Yeah while I'M sick of your FACE. So THERE.

You have received 3 warnings. Gee, colour me surprised.

One warning in three years, then three warnings in 24 hours (one of which was retracted). My personality, it seems, is not what it used to be.

And besides, don't you know that having more warnings makes you edgy and bodacious because FUCK THE POLICE?

No one gets sick of my face without seeing it and tells me. You're going down.

Also, I can get more warnings than you. I just don't want to

 

[Kyber]

Massive Snip.

Thank you very much for the info, I think I'll have a look at TTGL when I have the time. Really want to thank you for gathering the time to write a wall of text like that, appreciate it.

 

[Casual Shinji]

LWA was a breath of fresh air in an industry dominated by a mentallity of "Make sure the character design is tantalizing so people will wanna buy figurines of it". It's this mentallity that's been killing anime for me.

Alright, let's do this. Let's take a look at Little Witch Academia's compatriots and see its breath-of-fresh-air-ness in action.

Four studios created projects for Anime Mirai in 2013. Trigger supplied LWA, Madhouse produced Death Billiards, Zexcs made Arve Rezzle, and lolGonzo gave us Ryo. Have you seen them all?

Of the four, two are good and two are bad, and the breakdown is exactly as you would expect, assuming you know about the studios in question. LWA we've already covered, and Death Billiards was actually kind of brilliant...I think. Either way, it has that slick, slightly Matrix-like "cool" to it that Madhouse does so well. Arve Rezzle was actually my favorite of the bunch, even though it's awful and skeezy to boot. Ryo was classic Gonzo - by which I mean, boring.

That aside, what you'd have noticed if you'd watch all of the Anime Mirai projects was that all of them - except Arve Rezzle, because fuck that thing was awful and yes it was still my favorite shut up - aren't fanservice-drenched and, being one-offs, aren't designed for figurines and such. Actually, the one best-suited for a figurine line-up would probably be LWA - or haven't you heard of "moe"?

Also, the fact that Attack on Titan was exactly what you're looking for and you still didn't like it may mean you have something of a Madonna/whore complex in regards to anime, so you may wish to rethink some things.

I know LWA being what it is is because it's a one-off that doesn't need to keep making money or gain popularity in order to continue running like most other anime shows. I know this has more or less always been the way not just anime but every series in the world works, it's just that anime seems to be leaning more and more on merchandize to survive.

I've heard you refer to LWA as moe before, but I don't really see it. It's got a cute cartoony look, but not overly cute. Not K-ON, for example. I mean, Azumanga Daioh has a certain cuteness to it, but it's not the overly sticky kind, if that makes any sense.


And who said Attack on Titan was exactly what I was looking for? The setting and concept are fantastic and captivating, it just squanders its potential with shonen antics and the dumb "flesh mecha" twist. If not for that... yeah, it would've been exactly what I was looking for.

Thankfully we have Space Dandy to look forward to. Good ol' fashion adventerous space hijinks.

 

[Username Redacted]

KLK is, to me, a very "meh" series. I really didn't like Gurren Lagann (note: did like Panty and Stocking and FLCL) so not being overwhelmed by something else from that same group isn't super surprising to me. Currently this is probably my fourth favorite of currently airing series behind Unbreakable Machine Doll, Strike the Blood and Kyoukai no Kanata none of which are anything to really write home about either. In short this is, IMO, a fairly weak crop of anime airing at the moment and if there where more robust choices available I wouldn't be watching KLK. Let's put this another way. I haven't dropped 'Sekai de Ichiban Tsuyoku Naritai!' yet and that show is terrible. Seriously don't watch it if you haven't started. Watch the trailer and then laugh about the fact that someone thought that this would be a good idea for a show.

 

[Dr. Cakey]

Massive Snip.

Thank you very much for the info, I think I'll have a look at TTGL when I have the time. Really want to thank you for gathering the time to write a wall of text like that, appreciate it.

You call that a wall of text? Ha, that barely counts as a chest-high wall. I'm not sure I could even use it for cover.

I've heard you refer to LWA as moe before, but I don't really see it. It's got a cute cartoony look, but not overly cute. Not K-ON, for example. I mean, Azumanga Daioh has a certain cuteness to it, but it's not the overly sticky kind, if that makes any sense.

It doesn't make sense. Well, it does, but I'm going to pretend it doesn't. You've made a very common, though also very understandable, error: you're taking "moe" as a statement of criticism when it's really just a statement of fact. I mean, come on, the main character is an adorably clumsy middle school girl. Can anyone here think of something more moe than that?

KLK is, to me, a very "meh" series. I really didn't like Gurren Lagann (note: did like Panty and Stocking and FLCL) so not being overwhelmed by something else from that same group isn't super surprising to me. Currently this is probably my fourth favorite of currently airing series behind Unbreakable Machine Doll, Strike the Blood and Kyoukai no Kanata none of which are anything to really write home about either. In short this is, IMO, a fairly weak crop of anime airing at the moment and if there where more robust choices available I wouldn't be watching KLK. Let's put this another way. I haven't dropped 'Sekai de Ichiban Tsuyoku Naritai!' yet and that show is terrible. Seriously don't watch it if you haven't started. Watch the trailer and then laugh about the fact that someone thought that this would be a good idea for a show.

Well, I suppose the good news is that both Unbreakable Machine-Doll and Strike the Blood are better than they have any right to be, though they're not exactly works of genius like Kill la Kill. You might want to try Kyousougiga and Log Horizon, those are both very good.

I adore the trailer to Sekai de Ichiban Tsuyoku Naritai. It's a minute long and made up of, what, three frames, total? Between that and the subject matter, it's absolutely hilarious.

 

[Username Redacted]

Well, I suppose the good news is that both Unbreakable Machine-Doll and Strike the Blood are better than they have any right to be, though they're not exactly works of genius like Kill la Kill. You might want to try Kyousougiga and Log Horizon, those are both very good.

RE: Log Horizon
From what I've heard of this series and the things I've seen it compared to I'm going to give it a pass.

RE: Kyousougiga
Seems somewhat interesting.

In reality I expect most of the next few months of anime watching to be spent clearing out a rather large back log. I would be even more pessimistic about this season if there weren't a few more episodes of Bakemonogatari left to air. Also Machine-Doll gets bonus points for having one of the best ending themes I've encountered out of an anime in years (decades?).

I adore the trailer to Sekai de Ichiban Tsuyoku Naritai. It's a minute long and made up of, what, three frames, total? Between that and the subject matter, it's absolutely hilarious.

I would really help if the people making this show had ever actually watched pro-wrestling. Even in passing. Don't have to be like life long fans of wrasslin but at least have a basic idea of how it works would gone to great lengths in keeping this show from being as bad as it is. That said I like this shows idea in theory. Like let's re-make it as a reality show. Take some burned out pop stars and train them as wrestlers vying for a WWE contract. I would (probably) watch that.

 

[mecegirl]

I've watched the episodes and I just can't enjoy it. It's pretty boring to me...which sucks because I want to like the show. I don't buy that the fanservice has a viable deeper meaning either. While I understand the point that the link posted earlier is trying to make its sounds like a big excuse to justify the fanservice. Just let it be fanservice. It brings up too many questions when someone attempts to justify it. I mean, why exactly should the women only gain power once they accept being sexualized? It's an artificial choice because the protagonist isn't given an option. That idea is obviously from the perspective of someone who hasn't been sexualized often as a child or an adult.

To make a real life comparison think of street harassment(something that happens to women regardless of what they wear). It happens to real girls during puberty. I'm talking 10, 11, and 12 if they start to develop "early". Grown men make the choice to comment on their bodies as if they have the right to. Ignoring such treatment, or even going out of their way to avoid parts of town where such things happen is how women deal with that. Doing anything else often leads to verbal abuse or violence. How is any of that empowering? Who is going to explain to the middle schooler who gets catcalled walking home from the store how empowering that experience is? Who is gonna explain to the women on the train who caught a guy staring at her while beating off how empowering that experience is? Or even that once she accepts that as a part of life that she will become empowered by it?

 

[Dr. Cakey]

I've watched the episodes and I just can't enjoy it. It's pretty boring to me...which sucks because I want to like the show. I don't buy that the fanservice has a viable deeper meaning either. While I understand the point that the link posted earlier is trying to make its sounds like a big excuse to justify the fanservice. Just let it be fanservice. It brings up too many questions when someone attempts to justify it. I mean, why exactly should the women only gain power once they accept being sexualized? It's an artificial choice because the protagonist isn't given an option. That idea is obviously from the perspective of someone who hasn't been sexualized often as a child or an adult.

To make a real life comparison think of street harassment(something that happens to women regardless of what they wear). It happens to real girls during puberty. I'm talking 10, 11, and 12 if they start to develop "early". Grown men make the choice to comment on their bodies as if they have the right to. Ignoring such treatment, or even going out of their way to avoid parts of town where such things happen is how women deal with that. Doing anything else often leads to verbal abuse or violence. How is any of that empowering? Who is going to explain to the middle schooler who gets catcalled walking home from the store how empowering that experience is? Who is gonna explain to the women on the train who caught a guy staring at her while beating off how empowering that experience is? Or even that once she accepts that as a part of life that she will become empowered by it?

Hoo, could you have posted this a week ago? I was totally riding high on KLK back then. Now I've cooled off into normalcy. Nonetheless, I'll try to explain how I see it.

The first mistake people make when attempting to describe Kill la Kill is calling it a "deconstruction". It isn't - if anything, it's a reconstruction. The second mistake, the one you've highlighted, is attempting to read it as having to do with sexuality and/or female empowerment. After all, if the protagonist is female, what else could it possibly be about?

The writer has stated in interviews that the concept for Kill la Kill came from the fact in Japanese, "school uniform" and "to conquer" are pronounced the same (seifuku). One interesting thing about Kill la Kill is that the antagonists - except for Satsuki - derive their power exclusively from an external source, specifically their Goku Uniforms. Based on the praise they heap upon their uniforms and Satsuki, it would be no exaggeration to say they're nothing without them. The Goku Uniforms, while giving the wearer power, also are a physical representation of an entrapping social structure.

There are two people outside this cage of control - Satsuki, as the one controlling everyone else, and Ryuuko, as the one opposing her - represented by them shedding their, um...cages. Yeah, let's put it that way. You can actually see this during their transformation sequences, when a cage of red threads is blown off their bodies when their Kamui is injected with blood. In the OP, the cage of red threads can be seen being constructed out of hundreds of human figures linked together. Whereas those with Goku uniforms rely on an external power, Satsuki's power comes from subjugating her Kamui, and Ryuuko's comes from joining with hers.

Now you might say, as many others have said, that this is them trying to "have their cake and eat it". And yes. It is. Having and eating cakes is pretty much the calling card of anime for at least the past decade. The amount of cakes had and eaten each day by Hiroyuki "why does the volume only go up 11" Imaishi must be truly extraordinary.

Another, more tl;dr way to put it would simply be that, in the same way that Gurren Lagann's universe runs on manly manliness, KLK's universe runs on sexy.

 

[SadakoMoose]

Well, I suppose the good news is that both Unbreakable Machine-Doll and Strike the Blood are better than they have any right to be, though they're not exactly works of genius like Kill la Kill. You might want to try Kyousougiga and Log Horizon, those are both very good.

RE: Log Horizon
From what I've heard of this series and the things I've seen it compared to I'm going to give it a pass.

RE: Kyousougiga
Seems somewhat interesting.

In reality I expect most of the next few months of anime watching to be spent clearing out a rather large back log. I would be even more pessimistic about this season if there weren't a few more episodes of Bakemonogatari left to air. Also Machine-Doll gets bonus points for having one of the best ending themes I've encountered out of an anime in years (decades?).

I adore the trailer to Sekai de Ichiban Tsuyoku Naritai. It's a minute long and made up of, what, three frames, total? Between that and the subject matter, it's absolutely hilarious.

I would really help if the people making this show had ever actually watched pro-wrestling. Even in passing. Don't have to be like life long fans of wrasslin but at least have a basic idea of how it works would gone to great lengths in keeping this show from being as bad as it is. That said I like this shows idea in theory. Like let's re-make it as a reality show. Take some burned out pop stars and train them as wrestlers vying for a WWE contract. I would (probably) watch that.

Good point there. I think the makers HAD watched some Joshi before, but they probably didn't get too deep into it outside of using it as porn. Other than that, I think the show's biggest problem was that it involved people from Ikkitousen and Queen's Blade. At that point, you might as well give up and let Ken Akamatsu write the story.