Poll: Star Wars The Old Republic -Warcraft contender or just another clone

[Nouw]

Is it impossible for there to be a world with two major MMOs?

Pretty much, yeah. You have no idea how much "hardcore" WoW players put into creating the best character possible. The time and effort involved is astounding (for evidence, check out sites like Thottbot or WoWhead and see if you understand a word). To think that somebody is going to do that sort of thing for two games at once isn't terribly realistic.

I just think it's unfair how there can only be 1 game in that genre. Oh well... imagine that for every other one!

And yes I do understand a few words as I have lots of friends who are glued to WoW.

 

[adamtm]

1 - Sorry but this is core to any RPG, you always want the one with the most health to take the hits, the one who does the damage to stand back and do the damage, and you need to heal the one taking all the hits. This transcends into almost every RPG.

2 - So you want to move away from RNG? more of a set number system? LIke leg is 1-10 pts etc? Cause why would anyone want to shoot anywhere besides the head? It is skill based. You have to know which buttons to push when to be successful. Sure, you can mash face into keyboard and win, but, there someone who knows which buttons to push at right times tha twill come along and roflpwn you.

3 - I agree, Give me a way to dye my loot dammit!

4 - Talent trees are truly good. They give a mage specialization, prob is.. all three trees need to be viable for endgame. I hate the fact that if you want to be successful in end game you have to play "x" spec with "x" talents in "x" places. mana is and has always been around, and will always be around.

5 - you need to be more specific because each MMO I have played has had some sort of hybrid classes

6 - I agree completely. Matrix online tried, but failed.

7 - you skipped 7, so for this I laugh at you. HA HA HA HA HA HA

8 - No lvls? really? Never gonna happen. I think city of heroes did it best when they added the side kick feature that would normalize a playing field to let everyone play together regardless of level.

9 - sandbox pvp? Like open world PVP? Like what WoW had before shitty BG's? Because I loved open world PvP before blizzard fucked it all up. THere was nothing like getting your whole guild and waiting for the rival alliance guild to gather for raid night near BRM and ambushing them lol. All of this has gone away because of BG's and Arenas

1, 2, 4 are suggested here (page 3): http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4219/rethinking_the_trinity_of_mmo_.php
Dont say its impossible, its just takes some effort.
Also there are TOR players agreeing with me over this: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=162496 (i am not a poster on those forums, just found this interesting discussion with goolge)

On 2 specifically, skill comes in a lot of varieties.
Lets be honest here, in WoW most your rotations in PVE consist of max. 4-5 buttons (the complicated ones including pyroblast to the face after applying living bomb and a hot streak in conjunction with Fireblast etc.). Its still fairly easy to learn, there is no sort of "challenge" to it. Hits are pre-determined. You cant run away from my arcane barrage or dodge it. The situation in general doesnt matter, the mob-lvl vs your lvl matters.

Now a game like Vindictus, where there are actually hitboxes, dodging and actual reaction to the situation you have a different kind of "skill". The skill being actually able to counter moves, react to your opponent, use terrain to my advantage (by actually USING the terrain, as in i can throw pots, stones at mobs or clobber them with a tree), grappling with the opponent, combos, using items in non standard ways (using a grappling-hook to immobilize a boss and drag them around the yard so other players can punch him, fuck yeah!)
It gives me personally the feeling that i as a player matter, that -I- am calling the shots, not the RNG.

Anyone who ever played a PnP RPG knows how you feel if you get tripple crited by a mob for 160 dmg. Luck should play the smallest part in a game, especially an competitive one like an MMO.

There needs to be a certain balance between the harcore aspect of real time reaction, skill, and RNG employed. On one side of the spectrum we have WoW, and a shit ton of other mmos, and on the other we have games like Monster Hunter, where you can run through the game naked and with a starter-sword.
Just find the golden middle and call it a day, ok? No? Please?

5 - i explained this previously in post nr.127
8 - The Secret World, Darkfall, and by some extension Shin Megami Tensei IMAGINE, Perpetuum and EVE are doing this right now. LVLs are not necessary for an (MMO)RPG, have not been since EVE.
9 - PVP that matters! Who the fuck cares if i capture a flag, or score some point, or take over some imaginary land (wintergrasp) so others get a buff.
PVP needs to matter, i want the other side to painfully feel the loss of the territory/fight (not possessions, im not a fan of lootable corpses). It also needs to give incentive to actually do PVP, thats why it will only work with a persistent world and player-buildable structures with benefits. No matter what you say about Darkfall Online (full of cheaters, broken skill grind and balancing, etc.pp.) there at least it mattered that you had your own town with your own vendors and access to faction/guild-specific crafting and services. Also it hurt when it got raided and your hard work went to shit.

 

[AugustFall]

Whole lot of people making some pretty heavy handed claims of gameplay and graphics about a game which isn't even out yet.
I think it will be good, KOTOR was awesome, I'm playing Neverwinter Nights right now and it's awesome.

Will it kill WoW? Why does it have to? Why can't it have it's own fan base? All the people who play WoW are not all the people who like MMOs.

This and Guild Wars 2 are my 2 MMOs to watch right now, I know I will get GW2 (it looks amazing) I'll wait to see how this one is when it comes out instead of sitting in a thread making outlandish claims about features I (and no one else in this thread) have first hand experience with.

 

[Agayek]

What footage were you watching Reveras? As far as I know there isn't much footage out and from what I have seen it looks pretty good. As far as rivaling WoW goes the graphics are freakin stellar IMO. I don't care for the cartoony feel to WoW personally. Gameplay, remains to be seen by me but I am kind of tired of the grind stuff. GW2 has me excited in that venue. Not sure how TOR will fare. (Will keep my fingers crossed.)

AFAIK, the only real gameplay footage shown (ie, that's longer than a few seconds) is the one showing the group combat thing they revealed at E3, and all things considered, it looks like a clone of WoW. That's certainly not a bad thing, but that's how it appears.

That said, the real strength of TOR is going to be the story (or so they're claiming). Most of the press releases and whatnot are focused on how it's going to contain a real, meaningful story. Hopefully it will work out well. I know I'm definitely going to be playing TOR when it comes out. My only real concern about it, at this point, is the endgame content. As far as I know, Bioware has said nothing about it yet, and as they haven't done anything like it before, I'm mildly concerned about it. No way to tell until it comes out though.

 

[The Austin]

It could easily rival WOW. Easily.

 

[ChildishLegacy]

Can another MMO kill WoW alone? - No, no it can't.

Can it assist WoW in commiting suicide? - Yes it can.

It's only a matter of time before wow ceases to be an MMO and is just an action game which has a ranking system labeled gear, it's getting that casual, sounds like cataclysm might tip it over the edge.

If any of these new mmos focused solely on end game gameplay they might have a shot, but they're trying "innovative stuff" which nobody really wants, they went a standard mmo template with a nice combat system etc. and nothings topped warcraft on that as of yet.

 

[Agayek]

that's interesting about the poll, although it does support my concern. we will see if it pans out over time.

as i alluded to initially, i personally couldn't imagine playing as anything other than a force wielder in a SW game (where options exist), but someone may find enjoyment in playing a soldier (somehow).

Force Wielders are terrible though. Soldier/BH 4 lyfe, haven't decided which I wanna play yet.

That said, if Sith Warriors/Inquisitors are not far and away the most populated class 3 days after game launch, I will be astounded.

 

[Craazhy]

I really hope so. The thing about the Star Wars MMO is they've started out from a larger runway than WoW, and they have a much stronger pre-release fanbase than WoW. So I can only hope they take the highroad in the decision between using their money for making the best MMO they're capable of making or taking advantage of their fanbase KNOWING that they'll have a shit load of purchases out of the gate regardless of any factor whatsoever (example: AION).

I still have faith in the Star Wars franchise. They may enjoy the money a little too much, but I feel like between them and BioWare, they do their best when it really counts.

 

[Enos Shenk]

It depends. WoW got popular because they took the (at the time) basic MMO formulas and evolved them, taking things to the next level.

Blizzard should have pulled out all the stops for Cataclysm, knowing this thing is on the horizon. But they didn't, they went back to "basics" and crammed in even more amounts of grind. Bad move.

If Old Republic takes the WoW formula and evolves it like WoW did to EQ, they'll have a hit. If they just go for the safe clone...Well. We've seen how well the "WoW killers" have done in the past few years.

 

[badgersprite]

I'm not interested in whether it will rival WoW or not. I just want something Star Wars related that doesn't suck and will make me feel like a kid playing Dark Forces and watching Empire Strikes Back again.

 

[ZodiacBraves]

Although the choices didn't best express my personal opinion, I feel that because although they are both MMOs, TOR is a fairly different category in MMOs. It will have to work for WoW's playerbase somewhat, but it is different in being a story-driven sci-fi MMO, and WoW is practically pure fantasy.

Will it contend with WoW still? I think it could, EA has reportedly thrown 300 mil at this game and its made by another one of the highest quality developers in the industry trying to push MMO's further somewhat.

I think if anyone can do it, Bioware can. Or the other Blizzard MMO announced.

 

[Kortney]

It will take years to knock World of Warcraft off the top branch, even if it is a better game (and it probably will be).