Poll: Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Novan Leon]

Let's line up the all-stars of each universe and see how they match up, shall we?

STAR WARS:
Death Star
The Empire
The Force
Jedi

STAR TREK:
Q
Cloaking Technology
Transporter Technology
Borg

Q is disqualified in my opinion, heck, if there ever was a battle between the two universes, Q would probably be the one to cause it in the first place. If we take the remaining elements, I think we come pretty close to a draw. While SW definitely has a huge advantage with the more powerful weaponry, not to mention The Force, Jedi and all that entails, ST holds key tactical advantages in Cloaking and Transporter technology. The usefulness of cloaking your ship is self explanatory and transporter technology could be used to instantaneously board your opponents ship.

I think it would be a very long war and possibly end up in a stalemate.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

I am a Star Wars fan personally, I prefer the whole Science Fantasy with a used universe, deep background mythology, space magic, western overtones, space fighters and a grounding in pulp magazines as opposed to the cheesy 1960's kitsch that epitomizes Star Trek with its disc ships, technobable and inconsistant universe rules.

 

[Bobkat1252]

Upon looking at my avatar you can probably guess which side I will take in this arguement.

There is one thing no one has mentioned so far in this debate, the force storm.

The ability to create a destrucive wormhole at will, at any time, any where is an incredible power. Nothing can stop this destructive force until it has run its course. Simply put, the force greatly tips the scale in star wars direction since the possiblities are pracically endless with what you can do with it.

(As a note to Novan, star wars has cloaking tech as well)

 

[H0ncho]

Here is a comprehensive breakdown: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

This link ended the discussion. SW pwns startrek anytime, anywhere.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

All the borg would have to do is capture one empire ship and they'd have most of the information to counter it.

But they can't. See Deflectors.

as for the force. it doesn't really help when capital ships are fighting. it doesn't control torpedoes, just makes you be more accurate when firing.

Actually it can control torpedos, and shields.

'We already know where you're attacking from' - star wars still have sensors like every other space system.

But Trek doesn't have receptive telepathy or POS Telekinetics.

Kirk : "Get...me...the Empire.........onscreennowSulu."
Darth: *wheeze* "So, we meet again."
Kirk : "Listen...you......evilimperial...commander, I demand...*choke**cough* World....fading...breath...stopping..."
Darth : "Apology accepted, Admiral Kirk."

Tie Fighter just pwned the Enterprise.

 

[jim_doki]

If we discount all of Q's bullshit powers, we also have to discount the force. for all intense and purposes they serve the same function (a term I like to call Deus Ex Machina Bullshit). Discounting both posibilities, the advantage has to go to ST and heres why:

Better understanding of techonlogical concepts like replicators, transporters, shields and cloaks
better understanding of universal concepts like physics, light speed and time travel
Better diplomatic systems which would almost certainly be employed first
several smart, sassy women over SW's 2
The Borg's adaptive abilities (possibly may even disable sabers, they are energy based after all)
There is no such thing as a solo mission

now if you'll excuse me, i feel so very dirty

 

[Apone]

Three things... Star Wars Ships outmass Star Trek ships in every class. Star Trek includes their fighters as Capital ships... I would say a Super Star Destroyer with a full compliment of X-wings (144 plus over 6 squadrons of bombers) would decimate 3/4 of the federation before being attrited to death. Of course, when you concider the fact that the Empire and New Republic fielded over 1500 Star Destroyers, with a complement of 8 total squadrons, the Federatin starts taking massive damage quickly... StarDestroyer.net did a fan fic where they objectively compared weapons... Photon Torpedoes are simply balls of light similar to a phaser, whereas a proton torpedo IS a Nuclear Weapon, estimated in the 50 KT range... I figure a salvo of 24 from ONE squadron of x-wings would pretty much ruin the Enterprise. Then we have the Eclipse I and II Star Destroyers, over 20 KM long, each, and each equipped with a superlaser capable of cracking a planet's crust, or target ships as small as large freighters. The Borg would be obliterated by continued blasts from it. There is no adaptation for surviving a blast that powerful. Star Wars would win by default of faster than light travel, allowing them to harass a planet for hours before a Federation ship leaving from the same location could arrive. But, The Executor was escorted by no less than 20 Star Destroyers and 1000s of TIE fighters... Bye-bye Federation.

Standard weapon arrays for Star Wars ships:

Executor Class Star Destroyer:

Over 1000 Turbolaser Batteries
Over 1000 Ion Cannon Batteries
Over 1000 Missile and Torpedo Tubes
3 Shield Generators capable of withstanding over 140 Proton torpedo impacts before failing


Imperator Class Star Destroyer:

Over 60 Turbolasers, in each fire arc
Over 60 Ion Cannon Batteries in each fire arc
over 30 Missile and Proton Torpedo Tubes in each fire arc

Can anything in the Federation arsenal even come close to a Star Destroyer, much less a Super Star Destroyer?

Good points but since it's the universe vs universe its not just the "Feds" that the Empire would face but every race (though I didn't think the point of the OP was a fight but a "what do you think is better").

Oh and a Photon Torpedo isn't made of light. It's a casing around an matter/anti-matter warhead that mixes on impact (the star trek encyclopedia tells us).

All in all I love them both and am thankful that I don't have to chose between them. There not the same kind of Sci-Fi. And they both exist, happily on my DVD shelf.

"I have a bad feeling about this.." --- "KHAAAAAAAAN!"

 

[Jeroen Stout]

If it really were federation against empire the empire would last longer at first, until they are hit with the expenses bill, they'd go bankrupt in a month.

Janeway would send the emperor packing home crying. Hell, Janeway would board the Death Star with an away team and use it agains the borg. And anybody else. Jezus, people, just don't piss off Janeway.

I'm pretty sure Janeway can beat up an Ewok, so by continued logic if Ewoks can beat up the Empire, Janeway can beat up the empire. And make Vader cry -... again.

 

[Spinwhiz]

If it really were federation against empire the empire would last longer at first, until they are hit with the expenses bill, they'd go bankrupt in a month.

Janeway would send the emperor packing home crying. Hell, Janeway would board the Death Star with an away team and use it agains the borg. And anybody else. Jezus, people, just don't piss off Janeway.

I'm pretty sure Janeway can beat up an Ewok, so by continued logic if Ewoks can beat up the Empire, Janeway can beat up the empire. And make Vader cry -... again.

hahaha Ewoks...gotta love 'um. A primitive tribe that takes down a technologically superior enemy with big logs and pointy sticks.

 

[H0ncho]

Since nobody bothered to read the link provided by Darth Mobius, I'm gonna make some copypasta:

Star Wars: Acclamator troop transport

Light guns: 300 million GW (6 megatons per shot, 24 guns, assume 1 shot every 2 seconds for time-averaged power output rather than peak output)

Heavy guns: 2.4 million megatons (200 gigatons per shot from each turret, 12 turrets)

Sublight acceleration: 3500G

Operational range: 250,000 light-years (before refueling)

Shield heat dissipation: 70 trillion GW peak

Reactor power: 200 trillion GW max

Max hyperspace speed: not stated (however, the ability to travel "halfway across the galaxy" in a matter of hours as demonstrated in ANH, TPM, and AOTC requires speeds in the range of 10 million to 100 million times c).

Star Trek: Enterprise-D

Main phasers: 3.6 GW (5.1 MW per emitter, 200 emitters in the main phaser array, 2 full-sized saucer arrays and 3 smaller roughly half-size arrays on the stardrive section, p.123). Note that phasers appear to have a chain-reaction effect so their raw power output may be deceptively low.

Photon torpedoes: 64 megatons max theoretical (based on 1.5 kg antimatter payload, p.129)

Sublight acceleration: 1000G (design goal, p.75)

Operational range: 2750 light-years (7 years at warp 6 before refueling, p.3)

Shield heat dissipation: 3311 GW peak (473 GW per generator x 7 generators, p.138)

Reactor power: ~4 billion GW at max warp 9.6 (scaled from the warp power chart on p.55 which uses units of joules for power; we assume this is a simple mistake). From the chart, their fuel supply for 7 years of warp 6 cruising would be roughly 2E23 J (enough to run an Acclamator's reactor at full power for just 1 second).

Max warp speed: ~2000c (warp 9.6), sustainable 12 hours for a single sprint of roughly 3 light-years. This appears to have increased to roughly 3000c for newer ships such as the Intrepid-class.

As you can see, the officially published figures are massively in favour of the Empire, even if you disregard the fact that an Acclamator is not a particularly powerful warship by Imperial standards (an Imperial Star Destroyer is roughly 10 times larger (by volume) than an Acclamator and presumably 10 times more powerful, even if we disregard the fact that an Acclamator is just a transport).

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

So - one single star destroyer would probably be able to pwn all of the federation before it is even seen.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

I see that no one clicked on the link I provided... Check it out, it details very specifically all of the "CANON" information on weapons and technology.

ok you are missing the point that they are LASERS on the star destroyers that wouldn't even penetrate the navigational shields on the enterprise let alone the main shields

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_of_Star_Trek#Lasers

so while your link IS nice, it's wrong and deeply flawed

phasers are not lasers, they are beyond what a laser can do, the stun setting is setting 1, everything above that is kill or vaporize

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_of_Star_Trek#Phasers

the star destroyer with all it's powerful guns would be giving the enterprise a nice massage but wouldn't be a threat in the least

 

[Smitty of the Tolchocks]

Hello,Escapists(Escapees,maybe?)

-------Temporary hijack to explain how I got here...Post no. 1------
I was looking through through the web for articles pertaining to the fall of an old game company(Avalon Hill) and discovered this site because of Greg Costikyan's "Death to the Gaming Industry" article.I saw this thread off to one side and I had to add something to your discussion.

-I don't care too much who would win this scrap,but I'd pay big bucks to watch Jar-Jar Binks get the beating he so richly deserves,no matter who administers it.

-Also Data needs to take a long stroll off a short docking ramp.

-And Yoda...that little turd,don't even get me started on that SOB.I've hated him from childhood,ever since he started rooting through Luke's pack in The Empire Strikes Back.

If I have offended any fans of these characters,I apologize...to both of you.
-----Smitty

 

[Janus Vesta]

-Scale. GO HERE [http://www.merzo.net/index.html]. Click -10x zoom. See the Super Star Destroyer up top? Now scroll down and find how big the Enterprise is compared to it. These are to-scale images produced from extensive geek-search.

It's not the size, mate. It's how you use it. Star Wars proved that when an UNTRAINED X-Wing pilot destroyed the DeathStar in ONE HIT. Also, who mentioned Babylon 5? I know it was on the chart but this is Star we're talking about, not Babyl.

 

[Janus Vesta]

Hello,Escapists(Escapees,maybe?)

-------Temporary hijack to explain how I got here...Post no. 1------
I was looking through through the web for articles pertaining to the fall of an old game company(Avalon Hill) and discovered this site because of Greg Costikyan's "Death to the Gaming Industry" article.I saw this thread off to one side and I had to add something to your discussion.

-I don't care too much who would win this scrap,but I'd pay big bucks to watch Jar-Jar Binks get the beating he so richly deserves,no matter who administers it.

-Also Data needs to take a long stroll off a short docking ramp.

-And Yoda...that little turd,don't even get me started on that SOB.I've hated him from childhood,ever since he started rooting through Luke's pack in The Empire Strikes Back.

If I have offended any fans of these characters,I apologize...to both of you.
-----Smitty

Data died. Luckily, they had his memory save and uploaded him into B-4 (Lore much?)
And I agree, YODA YOU LITTLE SHIT GET YOUR OWN PACK! /Angry

 

[nightfish]

theres also the problem that ST is suppose to be based on real human achievement over the next few centuries where as SW is totally made up.

..and you've got to look at the time factor. in ST theres only been space travel for a couple of centuries, whereas in SW its much more developed.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

ok you are missing the point that they are LASERS on the star destroyers that wouldn't even penetrate the navigational shields on the enterprise let alone the main shields

the star destroyer with all it's powerful guns would be giving the enterprise a nice massage but wouldn't be a threat in the least

*wheeze* Ramming Speed, Admiral.
Are you sure Lord Vader?
I have studied their reactors. Were one to detonate on the front of the deflektors, they wouldn't even drop for a second.*wheeze* Especially since their Commander is now dead.
Right away, Lord Vader.

 

[H0ncho]

ok you are missing the point that they are LASERS on the star destroyers that wouldn't even penetrate the navigational shields on the enterprise let alone the main shields

WHY wouldn't it penetrate the navigational shields on the enterprise?
You offer a link but obviously it cannot be meant as evidence since it only offers an account of "one instance, [where]the ship-mounted lasers of two spacecraft were incapable of overcoming the navigational shields of the USS Enterprise-D."

Obviously the turbolasers of Star Wars are much, much more powerful than the ST universe weapons, as can be seen in the link provided chart. In any case they could just fire their torpedoes if, somehow, the shields were immune to turbolasers.

 

[Dogeman5]

If you weren't to count Doctor Who (see my Icon), Star Wars any day but if you were to count Doctor Who You would have to look at Civilization Charting [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale#Classifying_fictional_civilizations] Timelords (despite being Extinct) out power both.
Oh yeah it also says that Galatic Federation (star trek) is Type 2, while the Empire And the Republic (star wars) are Type 3.