Poll: Teachers going on strike, your thoughts?
- Thread starter Spektre41
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Seems perfectly fair. Collective bargaining.
If the teachers are just leeches who do nothing, they can easily replace them with productive workers.
If the teachers are workers whose labor you rely upon and they're so important that you can't replace them, you better give them their fair share, since you're profiting from money earned by the labor they do.
If the teachers are just leeches who do nothing, they can easily replace them with productive workers.
If the teachers are workers whose labor you rely upon and they're so important that you can't replace them, you better give them their fair share, since you're profiting from money earned by the labor they do.
People actually think that eh? Unless the trend is reversed in canada (I'd put money on it being the same) then teachers have a shit deal. Compared to other educated professions they are paid very little. Considering the work they do, and the stress they have to deal with, their paycheck is insulting. Not to mention the out of school work and study necissary to become one. Then there's the incredibly lack of resources (including staff) and teachers lack any power to discipline children (they can be taken to court for saying things that upset the child for fucks sake).Spektre41 said:
There was a time when teaching had a few unpaid perks (like exclusion from jury duty) but those days are long gone. If I was a teacher, I wouldn't just be on strike...I'd quit.
Also, I don't think the article listed is a pay dispute.
Let me be the first to say what the fuck. Why are fine arts educators underpaid relative to other teachers? Teachers are paid teachers wages in schools...Shru1kan said:
Call me batshit insane, but given the relative low demand for such teachers and lack of accessable, high paid jobs qualified proffesions could take, how is it that fine arts educators are entitled to any more pay than other teachers?
In a tertiary level of course legal and medical educators will be paid more, not only is it much harder work to become qualified enough to teach them but they have very high paying alternatives to teaching.
In what way does it effect you? I'm assuming you're not a teacher.
I can never understand why people get so worked up about things that don't concern them.
I can never understand why people get so worked up about things that don't concern them.
I can't pretend to know what the situation is like for teachers in Canada, but in the US, teachers are underpaid, overworked, and often employed as glorified babysitters whose job it is to allow students to pass regardless of actual academic skill, rather than true educators.
I say let them strike.
I say let them strike.
imo everyone should have the right to stike but every employer should have the right to fire them because they didnt do any work for however long they were on strike for.
"Their negotiators know their proposals would be turned down by a massive margin"
sounds fair enough. they ask for somthing and they dont get it. seem fair enough to me
"Their negotiators know their proposals would be turned down by a massive margin"
sounds fair enough. they ask for somthing and they dont get it. seem fair enough to me
College teachers are usually pretty well paid with benefits because of students paying thousands a year to attend their classes, public school teachers are paid very little because their money comes from taxes and get less benefits and have to deal with whiny kids who were forced to be there everyday. College teachers have it WAY better then public school teachers, so I can see public school teachers striking for obvious reasons, but college teachers have a few less reasons. (I'm in the U.S. though so it might be different)
Seeing as i actually live in Ottawa (in Ontario in case you don't know, not trying to be rude) And i go to college i have to pay a lot of money for my education. And i am one of those unlucky kids that actually has to pay my own way. If the teachers strike after we've paid tuition (which we have) and then they go on strike and Its just gone. And were shit outa luck.
That really sucks because i don't have a few thousand to just give away. They should be treated better but at the same time the students shoulden't have to suffer.
That really sucks because i don't have a few thousand to just give away. They should be treated better but at the same time the students shoulden't have to suffer.
Judging from what I've heard from people who actually teach and not hearsay, they aren't paid nearly enough for all the shit they have to go through and should go into armed revolt, let alone strike. You really expect them to provide decent education when they are barely scraping by? Would you provide decent work at your job if you were paid starvation wages? I know I wouldn't.
I'd like to know where on Earth teachers are getting paid 100k and what currency it is, because there's no way in Hell that the teachers I know here in NY are getting anywhere near 100k USD. Methinks your sister is full of BS, or providing the figures in Zimbabwean dollars, which, as of 2009.12.23 02:26:02 UTC, is about 276.319 USD.
I'd like to know where on Earth teachers are getting paid 100k and what currency it is, because there's no way in Hell that the teachers I know here in NY are getting anywhere near 100k USD. Methinks your sister is full of BS, or providing the figures in Zimbabwean dollars, which, as of 2009.12.23 02:26:02 UTC, is about 276.319 USD.
Oh boy. Right when college matters for me, the teachers decide to strike.
Honestly, I think assessments should be made for all teachers. Some that I know are incredibly underpayed and deserve a lot more than what they're getting, while others should have been fired years ago.
That goes for elementary and high school teachers, since I dont know too much about post-secondary education.
Honestly, I think assessments should be made for all teachers. Some that I know are incredibly underpayed and deserve a lot more than what they're getting, while others should have been fired years ago.
That goes for elementary and high school teachers, since I dont know too much about post-secondary education.
*sigh* In what way are teachers overpaid? Most of them here make peanuts. And yet they're responsible for ensuring the future of our society. Most teachers get lousy benefits, poor pay, and little actual control over their own lesson plans. The question shouldn't be whether teachers should strike, but why haven't they done this earlier?
Also, I've been out of school for quite some time now, which probably gives more perspective over anyone still in their teens and laboring under the delusion that all teachers hate them and school's a waste of time.
Also, I've been out of school for quite some time now, which probably gives more perspective over anyone still in their teens and laboring under the delusion that all teachers hate them and school's a waste of time.
They are underpaid yes, but should they go on strike? NO
What you don't understand is that by letting teachers go on strike, we stop the education of our children.
Also any teacher who is in the teaching business for the money, should not be a teacher... you should be a teacher because you want to, regardless of the pay.
Any ways, we always say that they should get more money, yet WE don't do anything about it. Go to your state legislator and tell them to make a law making teacher pay higher.
Also with tenyer in some Midwest states, teacher pay is over 60,000 a year and in Colorado, you automatically get 40,000 a year just by being a teacher.
EDIT: also their 401k is secure under the current benefits system, its not with the same area as your normal job 401k is, its insured by the government or something.
What you don't understand is that by letting teachers go on strike, we stop the education of our children.
Also any teacher who is in the teaching business for the money, should not be a teacher... you should be a teacher because you want to, regardless of the pay.
Any ways, we always say that they should get more money, yet WE don't do anything about it. Go to your state legislator and tell them to make a law making teacher pay higher.
Also with tenyer in some Midwest states, teacher pay is over 60,000 a year and in Colorado, you automatically get 40,000 a year just by being a teacher.
EDIT: also their 401k is secure under the current benefits system, its not with the same area as your normal job 401k is, its insured by the government or something.
How do they get a large pay check, they get payed terrably, and you have to work for years to get a raise and its only by like a dollar or two an hour (atleast for my teachers), and they put up with so much shit, so yes, they should be allowed to go on strike if the reason is valid, if the reason isnt valid then they shouldnt.
Well, it's a touchy subject:
In a nutshell:
Understand there is a differance between public education, and college for the most part. Up until High School teachers are by and large paid and receive benefits out of your tax dollars. It can be a touchy subject because when teachers demand increases those increases have to come from somewhere, and that means cutting other town or state services or raising taxes. Some schools receive additional payment from donations and the like, say rich former students, philanthropists, and other things, so despite being a public service some schools oftentimes wind up far better than others due to donations and some of that money is tossed to the faculty. This can lead to discrepencies, and serious bad blood between the faculty of wealthy schools and not so wealthy ones depneding on things like districts and donations.
Also things like High School sports can be a BIG deal, oftentimes local businesses and such take up collections or offer prizes to schools for competitions. This can be anything from cash, to scholorships (which are not nessicarly athletic), to new equipment/computers/etc. The teams that win tournaments and such can pull down some serious swag for their school depending on the area and level. This is one of the reasons why Jocks are oftentimes "above the law" so to speak (leading to all kinds of problems) because of the money they can bring in for the school. No matter what he does you aren't going to expel your top flight players when they have a chance to bring in scholorships for the students, equipment, or cash which can be used to pad salaries. Of course this latter point depends where you are, in some areas high school sports are big business, in others not so much.... and this is getting off the point other than to mention where the money comes from.
In such cases whether a strike is "fair" depends on the specific situation, how much the town/state/district can afford, and other factors. In general despite teaching your children remember you might not be able to afford the raise a public school teacher wants when it comes time to raise your taxes. Teachers crying poverty is also frequently BS, even in the US. It can depend on a lot of factors, but in general the level of cash and benefits is pretty good, not to mention access to school resources which can be pretty impressive depending on the school.
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When it comes to COLLEGE teachers, which is what this is about, colleges tend to be privatly run businesses even if they receive state or town funding. I don't think this changes much in Canada/Ontario. Ultimatly whether the strikes are fair depends entirely on the guys managing the college, and how much money they are making. Basically colleges are a business, and frankly if the tuitions aren't rolling in that means it's going to be lean times all around. Colleges also heavily depend on donations and such from previous students, and in a bad economy when nobody has extra money to kick back for the sake of nostolgia, fewer people are enrolling, and people might be having trouble making payments (or banks being wary about student loans), well that can snap back on the teachers. Having the job security of a collegiate teachter/tenure can be an awesome thing on some levels, but it also means that if the school can't afford to pay you, you wind up either having to take pay cuts or quit (and lose that job security).
Even if your dealing with community colleges (or the equivilent) with public monies involved, it's still basically a business.
It should also be noted that many colleges also use their facilities for research, and invest the money they take in, oftentimes in academic pursuits. The idea being that the guy teaching a class, is someone who is actually involved in the practice of the subject. What this means is that if a college invests in a project/expedition/etc... and something horrible happens it loses a lot of money. Ditto if the investments it makes wind up crashing.
To put it in context, think of the stereotypical horror movie set up where some professor who teaches Parapsychology at a university (despite being mocked by others in his department) goes to a Haunted House to "prove" ghosts are real. The equipment and such he brings are likely actually owned by the university, and the vehicles and such might also be. Ditto for the people paying for access to the site, or whatever. Some movies and such go into this, others do not. But still, if the ghosts pop out and kill 2 graduate studens, an intern, and half a dozen student volunteers, while trashing the equipment and cars and such, that basically means all of that would cost the university, and if when all the lawsuits and such are done from surviving families the school might be looking at some salary cuts.
Hmmm well maybe a marine biologist heading out in a boat that sinks would be a better example, but less of a nerdgasm.
So basically, from my quick read of the article it's generic enough where I can't really say what side I'm on. However working for a college by it's very nature, I'd say they are likely in the wrong in the final equasion. Times are tough all over, and the economy is hitting everyone. This is a crisis because I figure even collegiate professors who are relatively shielded by the investments of their employers (for lean times) are getting hit. Heck half the problem we're facing is with the investment markets, I'm surprised we haven't seen even more chaos that we have when it comes to universities.
In a nutshell:
Understand there is a differance between public education, and college for the most part. Up until High School teachers are by and large paid and receive benefits out of your tax dollars. It can be a touchy subject because when teachers demand increases those increases have to come from somewhere, and that means cutting other town or state services or raising taxes. Some schools receive additional payment from donations and the like, say rich former students, philanthropists, and other things, so despite being a public service some schools oftentimes wind up far better than others due to donations and some of that money is tossed to the faculty. This can lead to discrepencies, and serious bad blood between the faculty of wealthy schools and not so wealthy ones depneding on things like districts and donations.
Also things like High School sports can be a BIG deal, oftentimes local businesses and such take up collections or offer prizes to schools for competitions. This can be anything from cash, to scholorships (which are not nessicarly athletic), to new equipment/computers/etc. The teams that win tournaments and such can pull down some serious swag for their school depending on the area and level. This is one of the reasons why Jocks are oftentimes "above the law" so to speak (leading to all kinds of problems) because of the money they can bring in for the school. No matter what he does you aren't going to expel your top flight players when they have a chance to bring in scholorships for the students, equipment, or cash which can be used to pad salaries. Of course this latter point depends where you are, in some areas high school sports are big business, in others not so much.... and this is getting off the point other than to mention where the money comes from.
In such cases whether a strike is "fair" depends on the specific situation, how much the town/state/district can afford, and other factors. In general despite teaching your children remember you might not be able to afford the raise a public school teacher wants when it comes time to raise your taxes. Teachers crying poverty is also frequently BS, even in the US. It can depend on a lot of factors, but in general the level of cash and benefits is pretty good, not to mention access to school resources which can be pretty impressive depending on the school.
-
When it comes to COLLEGE teachers, which is what this is about, colleges tend to be privatly run businesses even if they receive state or town funding. I don't think this changes much in Canada/Ontario. Ultimatly whether the strikes are fair depends entirely on the guys managing the college, and how much money they are making. Basically colleges are a business, and frankly if the tuitions aren't rolling in that means it's going to be lean times all around. Colleges also heavily depend on donations and such from previous students, and in a bad economy when nobody has extra money to kick back for the sake of nostolgia, fewer people are enrolling, and people might be having trouble making payments (or banks being wary about student loans), well that can snap back on the teachers. Having the job security of a collegiate teachter/tenure can be an awesome thing on some levels, but it also means that if the school can't afford to pay you, you wind up either having to take pay cuts or quit (and lose that job security).
Even if your dealing with community colleges (or the equivilent) with public monies involved, it's still basically a business.
It should also be noted that many colleges also use their facilities for research, and invest the money they take in, oftentimes in academic pursuits. The idea being that the guy teaching a class, is someone who is actually involved in the practice of the subject. What this means is that if a college invests in a project/expedition/etc... and something horrible happens it loses a lot of money. Ditto if the investments it makes wind up crashing.
To put it in context, think of the stereotypical horror movie set up where some professor who teaches Parapsychology at a university (despite being mocked by others in his department) goes to a Haunted House to "prove" ghosts are real. The equipment and such he brings are likely actually owned by the university, and the vehicles and such might also be. Ditto for the people paying for access to the site, or whatever. Some movies and such go into this, others do not. But still, if the ghosts pop out and kill 2 graduate studens, an intern, and half a dozen student volunteers, while trashing the equipment and cars and such, that basically means all of that would cost the university, and if when all the lawsuits and such are done from surviving families the school might be looking at some salary cuts.
Hmmm well maybe a marine biologist heading out in a boat that sinks would be a better example, but less of a nerdgasm.
So basically, from my quick read of the article it's generic enough where I can't really say what side I'm on. However working for a college by it's very nature, I'd say they are likely in the wrong in the final equasion. Times are tough all over, and the economy is hitting everyone. This is a crisis because I figure even collegiate professors who are relatively shielded by the investments of their employers (for lean times) are getting hit. Heck half the problem we're facing is with the investment markets, I'm surprised we haven't seen even more chaos that we have when it comes to universities.
Most teachers don't get paid by the hour, in fact most teachers get paid 500-1200$ every weekSupreme Unleaded said:
This is for the United states however.
Also Canada, though similar is not the same in collage business, than in the US, Here the colleges only care about the money you give them, and the faculty get paid ridiculously large amounts. There is no reason they should get a pay raise, even community colleges, who I am not even sure are state funded at all, have high paychecks compared to normal public schools in the US.