Poll: The Falklands

[ICantBelieveItGoesBoom]

Anyhow, a referendum would indeed be the most democratic solution, and the most logical considering we are, after all, a nation founded on the ideals of democracy.

Sorry about the double post but you're thinking about America this country was founded on invasion and feudalism.

 

[Knight Templar]

Isn't this suppost to be about The Falklands, not Polland and how they were kinda screwed over?

Anyway I think letting them have a referendum would be best.

 

[Banana Phone]

I want to see your country fighting both Nazis and Soviets at the same time. Come on, it would've been impossible even for the USA or Japan.

+1

 

[Doug]

Anyhow, a referendum would indeed be the most democratic solution, and the most logical considering we are, after all, a nation founded on the ideals of democracy.

They have a democratic government of their own and could simply ask us to be let loose if they wanted. Frankly, I'm getting sick of people on this thread blindly assuming the Islanders wouldn't have any way of telling us if the wanted independence from us.

Hell, we've begun breaking up the UK itself - the Welsh and Scots have their own assemblies now who are only going to get more political power until they are independent countries again. Hell, the Maltan islanders wanted to remain British and we give them independence anyway (shame on us for disregarding them).

 

[Doug]

Isn't this suppost to be about The Falklands, not Polland and how they were kinda screwed over?

Anyway I think letting them have a referendum would be best.

Some flame baiter started on about the islands should be given to Poland to compensated for us not helping them more during WW2.

 

[Abedeus]

Yes, I'd really prefer if you just stopped Hitler. And if the Soviets left us alone, being nice allies of ours.

Oh, and you wouldn't be okay. You know that food rationing was going on during the war in Britian? And after the Germans would've attacked you, you would soon loose. It would be just a matter of time.

Learn History!

First off, food rationing was going on in most warring countries including Germany.
Secondly, we managed to fight off the nazis all on our own during the battle of Britain and no it was not just a matter of time seeing that the nazis were already starting to get thier asses kicked on the eastern front.

Look who's talking.

You ignored all the allied pilots you had during the Battle of Britain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-British_personnel_in_the_RAF_during_the_Battle_of_Britain#Polish_contribution

Next up, Nazis were getting asses kicked... later. Summer 1940 as opposed to Soviets driving Germans away in 1944.

And for more doubts (like Poland giving up fast or Bliztkrieg being new) or why SOMEHOW it was Poland vs Germany, Soviet Union and Slovakia, while Battle of Britain was Britain, Poland, New Zealand, Canada and few more VS Germany and Italy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Poland#Myths

Finally, in that Non-British personnel wikipage, you may also notice that Poland did have the most personnel.

You know why it was somehow All of those countries vs The Axis?
Because they were all part of the British empire.
And saying that Polish pilots singlehandedly won the Battle of Britain is still a vast overstatement.

Yes, it is a vast overstatement. Which none of us made, you did it. We never said that "Poland won your battle". We helped the most of all non-British soldiers, which is a fact, as you can see in my previous post.

It totally should be Polish. Why? Because we saved your ass in the Battle of Britain and you still sold us to Stalin, that's why.

Most of Poland now lives and works in the UK, so i think the UK has paid its debt a few times over now.

I made a joke, but if really think that letting 2 million dudes wash dishes for pennies in UK restaurants for like 5 years can make up for 50 years of terror, you're very very wrong.

What he said. They live, because a lot of people here study English and know to use it, so they want a job somewhere else.

It totally should be Polish. Why? Because we saved your ass in the Battle of Britain and you still sold us to Stalin, that's why.

Most of Poland now lives and works in the UK, so i think the UK has paid its debt a few times over now.

I made a joke, but if really think that letting 2 million dudes wash dishes for pennies in UK restaurants for like 5 years can make up for 50 years of terror, you're very very wrong.

Well Governments never change and people always get fucked over one way or another, thats life. But the people remember the sacrifices made by all nations that took part in the Battle of Britain.

Polish workers are filling jobs in the UK and they are earning so they are going to Britain for a good reason.

Yes, it is a good reason. I'm planning on moving to the UK after college (unless I find a decent job here) because our government sucks. Okay, it used to suck more, when twins brothers were in power (that's when those people migrated to England). But if it will ever get better, it'll be no earlier than in 5-10 years.

 

[The Infamous Scamola]

Yes, it is a vast overstatement. Which none of us made, you did it. We never said that "Poland won your battle". We helped the most of all non-British soldiers, which is a fact, as you can see in my previous post.

Still, you're implying that because polish pilots were the ones that helped the most among non british pilots the brits somehow owe you something.

 

[Abedeus]

Yes, it is a vast overstatement. Which none of us made, you did it. We never said that "Poland won your battle". We helped the most of all non-British soldiers, which is a fact, as you can see in my previous post.

Still, you're implying that because polish pilots were the ones that helped the most among non british pilots the brits somehow owe you something.

Well, for the help AND the backstab we at least deserve a "thank you and sorry".

However, I never said we need or want the Falklands. Never. Not me.

 

[The Infamous Scamola]

Yes, it is a vast overstatement. Which none of us made, you did it. We never said that "Poland won your battle". We helped the most of all non-British soldiers, which is a fact, as you can see in my previous post.

Still, you're implying that because polish pilots were the ones that helped the most among non british pilots the brits somehow owe you something.

Well, for the help AND the backstab we at least deserve a "thank you and sorry".

However, I never said we need or want the Falklands. Never. Not me.

Thank you and sorry?
Nobodys denying Poland anything here, we all know that the Poles fought bravely both in the air force and the resistance and they get massive props for fighting a war on both sides, but I aint apoligizing for what Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin did at Yalta, just like I think Germans today shouldnt apoligize for nazism.

And to get back on the topic of this thread, nobody wants the Falklands ( not even the Falklanders), it's just a rock in the middle of the ocean with a couple of sheep on it.

 

[Pandalisk]

Everything you've said is completely true, and as far as showing appreciation is concerned, I was mainly talking about people on this thread, but not you in particular: I just feel that a couple of Polish people came here, with a genuine and deeply held grievance. They felt that British people didn't give them the credit that they deserve, and we really don't. Sure historians have documented the contribution of Polish men and women, but British people by and large don't appreciate that effort. But nearly every British person who came on to this thread to talk about Poland just attacked their idea that Britain could have done more, rightly or wrongly.

You're right, it was fifty years ago. I just feel that given the outstanding efforts by the few Poles who were able to help the Allies, there's nothing wrong with saying 'thank you' from one British person to a Polish person, even though the whole business had nothing to do with us personally.

As I said in my original message, I don't claim to be a historian. I don't know how much influence Britain could have had on the Yalta conference concerning Eastern Europe. But we did nothing to help them, and I can understand them feeling aggrieved, considering what they did for us.

Sure, we were all tired of fighting. If I were alive in 1945, I'd have probably felt the same way. But we left all those people to fifty years of oppression and although we probably couldn't have done that much about it, we owed them the attempt at least. I understand the reasons why we did not, but I felt that someone should at least acknowledge their point of view.

No countryman wants to hear their country in the wrong, its a natural reaction, Abedeus for example is pretty much trolling the whole "you fucked us" claim while at the same time saying russia and nice allies of ours in the same sentance, our countries are a sence of pride to everyone, its to be expected i'd take no notice to them really. you'd find the loudest are usually the ones with about basic understanding of the history of WW2.

After WW2, stalin was spouting such anti-west bullshit and riding the military generated economic wealth it was fact that some people didn't even want the west to come in and kick stalin out, Poland was effectivly under the steel boot of stalin, why? because Germany had your people massacured for rebelling(i forget what the massacre was called), how did this happen? because russia was waiting outside Poland while Germany did this so they wouldn't have any resistance when they took over. So we had poland completely under control under stalins boot, Stalin would never give any country he has taken away, he needed them they were like buffers separating american and russian influence, So its obviously Diplomacy around this time was hopeless, War? out of the question, Russia was a massivly powerful military force, the west was in ruins, only america could of helped you in this way(even then it was doubtful), but it was too busy securing its influence in the west. poland as all other countries east of east berlin were under stalins control no exeptions, their was nothing the west could do. though to be fair roosevelt was planning to give you to the ruskies in the end anyway, but he saw what was happening from the start about the agenda of russia.

i use the word giving lightly since giving impplies america had a say over the control of poland, they did not

after stalins death doors opened up, at this time the west was supplying money to poland but it failed in the 197..3 i think, oil crisis so there was western help and some time later after that commusinism was kicked out poland, poland is Now part of the Eu so there wont be anymore betrayles, you have the backing of the other 26 and rising countries in europe including ireland,Russia is not going to barge in like it did before without resistance of these countries, what i like about the EU is that though there may be political agendas of each country, the matter of going to the defence of a country of the EU under outside threat is pretty much written in Bold letters.

my christ there should be a thread for all this

also 100 POST!

 

[Pandalisk]

Yes, it is a vast overstatement. Which none of us made, you did it. We never said that "Poland won your battle". We helped the most of all non-British soldiers, which is a fact, as you can see in my previous post.

Still, you're implying that because polish pilots were the ones that helped the most among non british pilots the brits somehow owe you something.

Well, for the help AND the backstab we at least deserve a "thank you and sorry".

However, I never said we need or want the Falklands. Never. Not me.

It wasn't a backstab it implies we did it because we could and wanted to, dont be such a troll that is not the case, read my other comments i dont feel like repeating myself

everyone deserves a thank you and sorry, you forget it is not countries but the men who rule them, stalin, hitler, rooservelt, these men they die, not the country, you scream out that it was the country itself and all the people in it that are to blame, without knowing what a complete hopless mess the east of berlin was, it was under stalins boot, there was no way of getting it away from stalin, only his death opened doors, you rant without understanding anything at all about political agenda of the time

you expect countries in ruin, to somehow conjure up the forces to beat russia? are you mad? only america could of stood a chance and even then it was securing itself, finnishing of the war and appeasing its publics mass cry FOR PEACE!. if their was no strong america in europe we would of been fucked plain and simple, but the east of berlin was lost, plain and simple. no ifs no buts.

it was not the pilots (though they were important) that had such a great impact on the battle of brittain rather the invention of radar

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Yes, it is a vast overstatement. Which none of us made, you did it. We never said that "Poland won your battle". We helped the most of all non-British soldiers, which is a fact, as you can see in my previous post.

Still, you're implying that because polish pilots were the ones that helped the most among non british pilots the brits somehow owe you something.

Well, for the help AND the backstab we at least deserve a "thank you and sorry".

No. *You* don't deserve anything because *you* didn't do anything except type that shit there.

 

[Abedeus]

Yes, it is a vast overstatement. Which none of us made, you did it. We never said that "Poland won your battle". We helped the most of all non-British soldiers, which is a fact, as you can see in my previous post.

Still, you're implying that because polish pilots were the ones that helped the most among non british pilots the brits somehow owe you something.

Well, for the help AND the backstab we at least deserve a "thank you and sorry".

No. *You* don't deserve anything because *you* didn't do anything except type that shit there.

And you did nothing but flame me and try to defend your country.

Face it, your country screwed us royally. How else can you call giving lives of dozens of millions of people away to Soviets on a plate?

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Yes, it is a vast overstatement. Which none of us made, you did it. We never said that "Poland won your battle". We helped the most of all non-British soldiers, which is a fact, as you can see in my previous post.

Still, you're implying that because polish pilots were the ones that helped the most among non british pilots the brits somehow owe you something.

Well, for the help AND the backstab we at least deserve a "thank you and sorry".

No. *You* don't deserve anything because *you* didn't do anything except type that shit there.

And you did nothing but flame me and try to defend your country.

Face it, your country screwed us royally. How else can you call giving lives of dozens of millions of people away to Soviets on a plate?

I did nothing but point out that your rants were nothing but stupidity.

According to your profile you were born in 1992. *You* never lived under oppressive Soviet rule. *You* never defended the UK in the Battle of Britain. *You* never got screwed by anyone at all, and certainly not by me as I was born in the 70s.

*Your* contribution was typing assinine rants on forums. Should I do the same? The Soviet occupation of Poland was completely justified - the way you treated them in the Russo-Polish war in 1654 was terrible! You did that!

 

[Abedeus]

Yes, it is a vast overstatement. Which none of us made, you did it. We never said that "Poland won your battle". We helped the most of all non-British soldiers, which is a fact, as you can see in my previous post.

Still, you're implying that because polish pilots were the ones that helped the most among non british pilots the brits somehow owe you something.

Well, for the help AND the backstab we at least deserve a "thank you and sorry".

No. *You* don't deserve anything because *you* didn't do anything except type that shit there.

And you did nothing but flame me and try to defend your country.

Face it, your country screwed us royally. How else can you call giving lives of dozens of millions of people away to Soviets on a plate?

I did nothing but point out that your rants were nothing but stupidity.

According to your profile you were born in 1992. *You* never lived under oppressive Soviet rule. *You* never defended the UK in the Battle of Britain. *You* never got screwed by anyone at all, and certainly not by me as I was born in the 70s.

*Your* contribution was typing assinine rants on forums. Should I do the same? The Soviet occupation of Poland was completely justified - the way you treated them in the Russo-Polish war in 1654 was terrible! You did that!

I was born right after the commies went away. My parents were born in the 60s, so they knew what it was like. My mother was in a college when the martial law was in effect, for crying out loud! It was like in V for Vendetta - you had to carry documents all the time, you couldn't travel or go out after 8PM and you couldn't say anything that might offend your government, the police or anyone important. Hell, they were even planning to kill John Paul II because he inspired Poles to protest against the authority.

Also, name one thing untrue in my posts. All are facts from history lessons or Wikipedia.

Don't forget that in 60-80s, while you were sitting on your butts in the UK or being hippies in the USA, hundreds of people died in Poland because they tried to change their lives for better. It was like WWII all over, except for 10 times longer.

While I also wasn't directly screwed by the commies, our economy and our lives was. And they will continue to be screwy for the next 10-15 years. At least.

Oh, and comparing 20th century to 17th is just stupid. No offense, but that's 300 years of difference. Different times, different people.

 

[llewgriff]

Britian 1- Argentina 0
round two

 

[Ago Iterum]

Yes, it is a vast overstatement. Which none of us made, you did it. We never said that "Poland won your battle". We helped the most of all non-British soldiers, which is a fact, as you can see in my previous post.

Still, you're implying that because polish pilots were the ones that helped the most among non british pilots the brits somehow owe you something.

Well, for the help AND the backstab we at least deserve a "thank you and sorry".

No. *You* don't deserve anything because *you* didn't do anything except type that shit there.

And you did nothing but flame me and try to defend your country.

Face it, your country screwed us royally. How else can you call giving lives of dozens of millions of people away to Soviets on a plate?

I did nothing but point out that your rants were nothing but stupidity.

According to your profile you were born in 1992. *You* never lived under oppressive Soviet rule. *You* never defended the UK in the Battle of Britain. *You* never got screwed by anyone at all, and certainly not by me as I was born in the 70s.

*Your* contribution was typing assinine rants on forums. Should I do the same? The Soviet occupation of Poland was completely justified - the way you treated them in the Russo-Polish war in 1654 was terrible! You did that!

I was born right after the commies went away. My parents were born in the 60s, so they knew what it was like. My mother was in a college when the martial law was in effect, for crying out loud! It was like in V for Vendetta - you had to carry documents all the time, you couldn't travel or go out after 8PM and you couldn't say anything that might offend your government, the police or anyone important. Hell, they were even planning to kill John Paul II because he inspired Poles to protest against the authority.

Also, name one thing untrue in my posts. All are facts from history lessons or Wikipedia.

Don't forget that in 60-80s, while you were sitting on your butts in the UK or being hippies in the USA, hundreds of people died in Poland because they tried to change their lives for better. It was like WWII all over, except for 10 times longer.

While I also wasn't directly screwed by the commies, our economy and our lives was. And they will continue to be screwy for the next 10-15 years. At least.

Oh, and comparing 20th century to 17th is just stupid. No offense, but that's 300 years of difference. Different times, different people.

I agree here. Just because you live in a different generation, doesn't mean the effects still won't be felt. It's like saying 'slavery was okay because all THOSE black people are dead now'. It just doesn't work like that. But while that may be the case, we as the British are also a different generation, who maybe would've made decisions differently if we were in charge. I know I would've been the first to help Poland and Lithuania, since the British always maintained a good relationship with the two before the commonwealth split.

There were some bad decisions made that can't be changed now, and arguing won't help.

 

[bjj hero]

The Argies never had a legitimate claim. The Faulklansa are happy with the British and would let us know if they werent. The argies actually boobie trapped homes, kids bed rooms etc. before they left. Why would they want to be Argentinian?