Poll: The Greatest Threat to Gaming

[weirdaljedifan2]

Rabid fanboys because fanboys who have fun scaring noobs and getting them to stop gaming is a bad thing. Soon developers will lose imagination and ask their fans for help and most of the time fans have no idea what makes a good game good. And then we will have a video game market crash like in '83, a slew of bad game will rampage through stores and then gaming will cease to exist.

That's my "Lewis Black's Root of All Evil" take on the subject, lulz.

But really, fanboys should really freakin' calm down with all this fighting and attacking other fans. Prime example, the Sonic the Hedgehog fanbase.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

5) Fanboys are a nightmare to a dedicated gamer. Anyone who buys something "because it's Nintendo" or "to stick it to Microsoft" or "To support Sony", is basically waiving the right for basic product quality. We all suffer because of that, but maybe it balances out?

6) MMO's make money monthly. I know they also cost money to maintain, but if you make a profit every month, you're doing something the average game can't. They're terrible games ,they can't afford any real narrative and art direction always has to take a backseat to the math on the screen and I won't listen to any argument to contrary. But they're also social devices and offer the kind of player who enjoys them real fulfillment. A danger to gaming overall?

Hmmm... breaking your own rules...

Anyway, the more I read about these kinds of topics, the more I realize I just really don't care. Enough people buy so-called "controversial" games that will continue to get made, no matter what journalists or "angry mothers" say. Also, our community is great at self-policing. Look at EA's policy with Spore. When they really step out of line, especially with good games, their fans will let them know.

Plus, you can't blame EA, Eidos, Ubisoft or whomever when you buy a bad game. That's why we have reviewers and professionals who can check out these games ahead of time. If you bought Kane & Lynch and bitched about it, just remember that someone (probably you) had to go out and buy the game. The publisher wasn't holding a gun to your head.

 

[Digitalpotato]

starcraft, warcraft 3, Any of the quakes, CS, Devil may cry 1+3, DOA4, forza racing. All games that are nearly impossible to master.... and their is depth in all of those, most notably, Starcraft, quake, cs, and DOA4.

Again, i like games where i always have to push it another level.... those are dieing

Heh. Find me depth in DOA4 please. I like the game and eveything, completed it with all the characters, but OMG! HITOMIS MAKING A SALAD. She dropped it though. That crazy Hitomi. Where is there any scope for depth in Forza?

Depth in Dead or Alive games? Dude all you really need to do with Dead or Alive to insure that it'll sell enough to make greatest hits is onething....and Optimus Prime here will tell us what exactly it is people play Dead or Alive for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-HK8Ym9ypo


EDIT: Ah yes, I noticed that several people have said that Eliticism is what's really destroying the gaming...and I have to agree. With a huge gap between people who are super elitist hardcore games and people who play ANY came for just "Casual" fun, as well as the ones who play the games that are flagged as "Casual" by "Hardcore gamers". Everytime I go onto a gaming community, there is eliticism and even nationalism. ("I am beter than you because I am Asian" "I am better than you as a person because I am not American", "I am british and british people are l33tzors, never mind that I am reinforcing stereotypes about them!") And whenever I go onto online games of all kinds, what do I see? ELITICISM!

"My games are better han YOUR Games! My taste in gaming is better than YOUR taste in gaming and everyone whose taste in gaming is not like mine is stupid! I am going to of course deny that this game is at all fun to anyone because it's not within my taste range. Everything negative oyu say about this game that's not within my taste range is 100% true while everything negative about MY taste range is 100% FALSE! REAL MEN PLAY ACTION GAMES!"

 

[Crunchy English]

5) Fanboys are a nightmare to a dedicated gamer. Anyone who buys something "because it's Nintendo" or "to stick it to Microsoft" or "To support Sony", is basically waiving the right for basic product quality. We all suffer because of that, but maybe it balances out?

6) MMO's make money monthly. I know they also cost money to maintain, but if you make a profit every month, you're doing something the average game can't. They're terrible games ,they can't afford any real narrative and art direction always has to take a backseat to the math on the screen and I won't listen to any argument to contrary. But they're also social devices and offer the kind of player who enjoys them real fulfillment. A danger to gaming overall?

Hmmm... breaking your own rules...
quote]

Again, I take heat for my poor attempt at conveying a simple point. We've discussed this, please read the earlier pages.

I hate MMO's, some people don't, and that's totally cool. But it's also a completely different discussion. Please start a new thread for that. I just didn't wanna talk about it here. I didn't even claim they WERE a threat to gaming, I simply presented them as an option and created a scenario where they could be.

All that garbage aside, sorry touched nerve I guess, you do have an excellent point about EA. They may be ahead in our little poll, but somebody is buying their stuff regardless. At some level, people are willing to forgive their indiscretions and try their games.

EDIT- Ugh, quote turned out ugly, sorry. I should stop checking this thread, it's been a long day on campus and I must have checked this thing a couple dozen times over the day.

 

[742]

DRM is bad, but it wont last. eventually people will either go out of business from it *crosses fingers and prays on EA* or realize that its fucking stupid to hurt your customers to punish people you have no controll over.
god i fucking hate fanboys/fangirls, but there arent enough to make a difference. more a plauge of video game forums. and theres nothing that we can possibly do about it anyway, just ignore them
uninformed journalists/senile lawyers... a bad cold, it sucks and its going to stick for a while, but its not lethal.
australia can go fuck itself when it comes to game policies. and thats devastating to the games industry... within australia. its not good for the rest, but we should survive, and even in australia theres always buying the stripped down POS, then pirating the full game(or just pirating it as is more likely).
EA is an evil plauge sweeping across the land, but they MIGHT be turning around... i dont know, wait and see, but at least theres no chance theyre taking blizzard.
MMOs SUCK, and are total shit from gameplay, story, technical, psycological health and, of course, graphicswhore perspectives, they are bad for people who like fun, and if you disagree with me (as some friends do) YOUR WRONG in a bad way, -3 respect points for not admitting your an addict until you do. but good games still get made, sometimes even by the same companies that make MMOs. maybe with less frequency than we would like, but shit happens. no, its not that, its the fact that they are SO unfun that people will pay to NOT play the damn things, and playing them is work, but theyre addicted, that gives virtual goods a monetary value(and since MMO players are mostly addicts its a very HIGH value) and that could be devastating to not just video games but possibly our entire economic system(see: issue 170 of the escapist). when people realize that then the video games legislation from an economic standpoint comes in, says what developers can and cant put in a game, what they can and cant do creatively, and the industry is then dead. but who knows, it might go back to good single and local multiplayer games. or maybe those governments will collapse and be replaced with a utopia where we all have pet unicorns that can fly and we will have lots of good video games oh, and our pet unicorns will be immortal, purify the air, eat garbage and, of course, crap ice cream that cures all mortal ailments(and tastes really good at the same time).

 

[Phoenix Arrow]

starcraft, warcraft 3, Any of the quakes, CS, Devil may cry 1+3, DOA4, forza racing. All games that are nearly impossible to master.... and their is depth in all of those, most notably, Starcraft, quake, cs, and DOA4.

Again, i like games where i always have to push it another level.... those are dieing

Heh. Find me depth in DOA4 please. I like the game and eveything, completed it with all the characters, but OMG! HITOMIS MAKING A SALAD. She dropped it though. That crazy Hitomi. Where is there any scope for depth in Forza?

Depth in Dead or Alive games? Dude all you really need to do with Dead or Alive to insure that it'll sell enough to make greatest hits is onething....and Optimus Prime here will tell us what exactly it is people play Dead or Alive for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-HK8Ym9ypo

Yes, this is what I have been saying about elitism, it shuts the outsiders off. Although, I am very much into fighting games so I find that statement about people only playing DOA for the impossibly proportioned ladies a bit harsh. It is by no means a deep game, even by fighting game standards, the story is impossibly weak and the characters are horribly balanced. This doesn't make it a bad game, just not as good as it could be.
I'm going to go back to playing King of Fighters with my friend now.

 

[Jazzyluv]

starcraft, warcraft 3, Any of the quakes, CS, Devil may cry 1+3, DOA4, forza racing. All games that are nearly impossible to master.... and their is depth in all of those, most notably, Starcraft, quake, cs, and DOA4.

Again, i like games where i always have to push it another level.... those are dieing

Heh. Find me depth in DOA4 please. I like the game and eveything, completed it with all the characters, but OMG! HITOMIS MAKING A SALAD. She dropped it though. That crazy Hitomi. Where is there any scope for depth in Forza?

Depth in Dead or Alive games? Dude all you really need to do with Dead or Alive to insure that it'll sell enough to make greatest hits is onething....and Optimus Prime here will tell us what exactly it is people play Dead or Alive for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-HK8Ym9ypo

Yes, this is what I have been saying about elitism, it shuts the outsiders off. Although, I am very much into fighting games so I find that statement about people only playing DOA for the impossibly proportioned ladies a bit harsh. It is by no means a deep game, even by fighting game standards, the story is impossibly weak and the characters are horribly balanced. This doesn't make it a bad game, just not as good as it could be.
I'm going to go back to playing King of Fighters with my friend now.

I can't think of a single fighting game with well balanced characters, and story, means nothing to me. But DOA4, is a lot about mixing up your attack pattern and strategies in comparison to say, street fighter. Due to its solid (i wont use complex, that was harsh i will admit) countering system, but not overpowering to make the game shitty. I'm not good at it, but i like those kinda games, i like games with high skill ceilings like this has.

You know what is great about elitism, it shuts off all the people who suck. All things that are truly amazing are elitist. High level sports, advanced military operations, quantum physics, all things that have a very small group of people doing them, but are still extremely interesting in the end, especially for those that participated. their is nothing wrong with elitism, in any way, any game that becomes completely elitist is generally a good game, because it held the interest of a person for so long.

 

[Phoenix Arrow]

I can't think of a single fighting game with well balanced characters, and story, means nothing to me. But DOA4, is a lot about mixing up your attack pattern and strategies in comparison to say, street fighter. Due to its solid (i wont use complex, that was harsh i will admit) countering system, but not overpowering to make the game shitty. I'm not good at it, but i like those kinda games, i like games with high skill ceilings like this has.

But you're not listening to what I'm saying. It all depends and what characters you use. If you can beat my exes Helena or my Christie (at least when we were playing it every day) then power to you. But outside of those two, you don't need to do combos. And if you do combo, it's all too easy to just mash buttons until something fancy happens and keep spamming that. Try doing that on DarkStalkers or King of Fighters. I'm not saying it isn't a fun game, I just don't understand how you can say DOA is the most tactical fighting game with a bold face.

You know what is great about elitism, it shuts off all the people who suck. All things that are truly amazing are elitist. High level sports, advanced military operations, quantum physics, all things that have a very small group of people doing them, but are still extremely interesting in the end, especially for those that participated. their is nothing wrong with elitism, in any way, any game that becomes completely elitist is generally a good game, because it held the interest of a person for so long.

But elitism in gaming isn't positive like this. Elitism in gaming is "I've been playing games longer than so therefore I'm better and know more" or "I don't like this game therefore it's shit and noone should be allowed to play it". All it does is alienate people and make them feel like they aren't allowed to play games because they don't know what's inside the G-Man's briefcase or they don't know all the fatality moves from Mortal Kombat. Have your opinions, just don't condemn people for not agreeing with you. God knows if they did agree with you, you'd call them posers anyway.

(Disclaimer: my use of you is generally in the 3rd person as opposed to the 2nd, so don't take anything personal)

 

[mr mcshiznit]

Yeah elitism is great - just for the record yall are known as d-bags to the rest of us not so elites. Are you kidding me elitist dont just shut off people who suck, they shut off people who arnt so full of themselves they shove it down other peoples throats. Get off your high fricken horse and realize that just because your really good at a game does not entitle you to compare your "elitist" self to high level sports, advanced military operations and quantum physics. You sir take your self waaaaay to seriously. And lastly im pretty sure you can be really good in a game or any other thing in life but also have some modesty. How bout you have other people claim how "elite" you are and not go boasting it on a forum?


Edit: if however you are involved in high level sports, quantum physics or a high level military operation, i apologize but you get my point.

 

[Lord_Jaroh]

None of the options are right. The fall of gaming will be Advertising...

 

[defcon 1]

Ea will turn the gaming into the movie industry.

I never understood what people meant by turning into the movie industry, for I know jack about film. Can someone please clarify this for me?


By ruin, I'm going to assume that means making poor games. Well here is my 2 cents.

The problem behind the issue is that games are becoming too complex to make now a days.

Christ only knows how much money, time and manpower is needed to program extremely complex games both graphically or otherwise. Games need a source of funding. It has been said before, less than 5% of the industry turns a profit for their publisher so looking at the initial cost, they'll want to play it safe and screw up many design decisions with all kinds of marketing pressure.

Another aspect of the problem is the size audience. For the most part, society finds it hard to take games seriously with their content. People also think that gaming is for immature nerds who have too much time on their hands. This kind of message is generated by places like the news and even our own crap.

There is also the trouble with cost, I know, I've been there. Games along with their systems are way too fucking expensive. People simply aren't willing to pay a lot of money for entertainment. It also seems like every time a Playstation lowers it's price, the sales go up and I can bet you a financial priority is part of it. I believe the reason they're expensive is to turn a profit, but like I said before, too much money. So if the audience is too small, it will be hard for games to generate the kind of money they need.

I think Yahtzee hit the nail on the head with the opening of his Braid review, but I don't believe the consumer is to blame. There have been many great games that simply can't push the advertising the same way Halo 3 can. There are many fabulous games that don't make money because they can't reach the public, otherwise known as ?sleeper hits.?

These factors add up to why games can't afford to take the risk of making something really cool. I wouldn't doubt that a lot of designers have great ideas but don't have either the freedom or resources to implement them. I don't however believe the problem is as ugly as people think it is. There are still many good games in this generation.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I think the non gaming media has a lot to answer for.

Between Fox and the Daily Mail, along with others, they've got a sizable proportion of parents thinking that if they dare try 'Peggle' for example, Satan and Bin Laden will claw their way thru the screen and double team em without foreplay.

This of course reduces the casual gamer audience, and also stops a certain amount of their children being exposed to gaming, and I believe a fair number of adult gamers today started out pretty young.

However, now its a lot easier to get into gaming as an adult without being seen as 'weird' thanks to Buzz, Singstar, Guitar Hero, Bejeweled etc.

I do put part of the blame at their feet for scaremongering, and part of the blame at the game makers feet for prolonging the myths that all games are just guns and titties by letting games come out that conform to the myth. There's a huge gap between edgy mature titles and just crowbarring some nudity in to sell it to more kids.

Jack Thompson is no threat, as he just looks like a loony even when Fox give him airtime. I also don't believe there's a court left willing to take him seriously any more.

 

[bluerahjah]

Actually, I think it's the console companies that will ruin gaming, for one, look at how Microsoft and Sony are always vying for console exclusive content. Yes, I realize this has been done for years, but with the addition of DLC it seems to be a bigger issue than it ever was. One day that ONE GAME will hit the shelves, and more money will be thrown around trying to control who get's what, and we -the gamers- will be the one's who lose.

 

[Jazzyluv]

Yeah elitism is great - just for the record yall are known as d-bags to the rest of us not so elites. Are you kidding me elitist dont just shut off people who suck, they shut off people who arnt so full of themselves they shove it down other peoples throats. Get off your high fricken horse and realize that just because your really good at a game does not entitle you to compare your "elitist" self to high level sports, advanced military operations and quantum physics. You sir take your self waaaaay to seriously. And lastly im pretty sure you can be really good in a game or any other thing in life but also have some modesty. How bout you have other people claim how "elite" you are and not go boasting it on a forum?


Edit: if however you are involved in high level sports, quantum physics or a high level military operation, i apologize but you get my point.

You are confusing elitism and egotism. Elitism does often tend to naturally lead to egotism though. It's different in gaming of course because of the overlapping skills required between games in the same genre. Elitism in online games tends to spawn large egos, but of course it depends on the community more so then the game. Lets take Halo 3 for example, I have never seen a more egotistic online community in my life. You know why every other person think they are awesome at Halo 3 online? because the rest of the community isn't that good. I'm not attacking people for being bad at a videogame, I'm attacking those that think they are amazing because they destroy those that play casually 4-5 hours a week. While quakeworld(my favorite game) has a community of those in their 30's and 40's that are all very good at the game they play, they could easily go to any other game on the market today and be amazing at them, but they just don't enjoy them. Another thing about quake, is most people don't think they are good, because it's inevitable that someone is better than you in the community, you know it, because everyone who has played a quake duel has been raped so hard its not even funny.

Maybe it's too much to compare competitive gaming to sports, military operations, and quantum physics. But the premise is the same, you get a couple 100,000 people, you put them in competition with one another. The smarter, more determined, and more manipulative reach the top, it's bound to happen. That is why it is like any other field, any other competitive hobby. Alot of people have competitive hobbies, they have competitions for cooking food, growing veggies, and all kinds of other shit you wouldn't even think of. You probably wouldn't call someone who calls their Lasagna the best in the state an elitist or egotist.

: )

 

[Uszi]

1) Australia is getting crazy with the Censorship, are they robbing people of gaming experiences, or is that just temporary political insanity?

I don't live in Australia, but the idea that anyone can look at what their government is doing to freedom of choice and say, "Well, good job," is appalling.

 

[Littaly]

At some extent, piracy. But also counter piracy measures *cough* Spore *cough*

 

[Digitalpotato]

None of the options are right. The fall of gaming will be Advertising...

Or lack thereof. how many games were ignored because of the lack of advertisement?

 

[Kshandamionreal]

Controversy engenders interest. Rock/Rap got bigger than expected because it was a way kids rebelled against their parents. Fox News/Thompson are already jokes in their own worlds, so saying Mass Effect is covert porn only adds fuel to the fire for both sides. Fox News is still a joke to the media world and Thompson is a paranoid, bible-thumping hatemonger that fights the legal system as much as video games, if not more. I'm not big on MMo's, but sooner or later people hit a wall when fantasy life competes with real life and leads to a number of conclusions.

1. Like a normal person, the player shuts off the game to maintain their obligations (work, school, relationships, etc.)
2. The player misses an important obligation, shaking them into control.
3. The rare, but overhyped cases of parents being too addicted to care for their kids or that guy that had no social life and essentially fused himself to his PC until his mind crapped out and died. These people were already messed up to begin with so one vice or another was bound to kill them.

I go with fanboys being the threat to the industry because generic crap gets overrated and originality is scorned. Toss a Pam Anderson clone into a game and it's suddenly a best-seller. Copy a previous game with minor improvements and it's a must-buy. Bring out a JRPG with pretty boys and it's sold out and fanfic'ed in a heartbeat. Make a game about a wolf with magic powers based on Japanese mythology that's NOT an EXTREME!!!! furry and it's DOA. Why? Because fanboys are a simple, hypocritical, stubborn, horny bunch that'll buy Bloodrayne for the dry-humping half-vampire heroine and whichever Dynasty Warriors game is unleashed simply because they added in 3 new background plants and the player's thumbs still work. Fanboys want a new Zelda game the millisecond one comes out only to complain when the design looks different yet moan when there's not ENOUGH features. Fanboys fawn over an underrated game YET NEVER BOUGHT/PLAYED IT LIKE THE MAINSTREAM and treat games that sucked like they were the Second Coming.

Guess what? Psychonauts WAS brilliant and I rented, beat and returned to Blockbuster because it was TOO SHORT, had ZERO replayability and still had generic platforming even if it was platforming in a living velvet painting. It's the poster child for underration, BUT maybe if it took longer than a few days and gave you a reason to play it again, maybe more people would've BOUGHT IT. People keep talking about the racial issue of RE5, but they forget that in general, CAPCOM SUCKS AT WRITING. As great as RE4 was an action title, there was some dialogue so bad, I wasn't sure whether to laugh when I should be driven to say the day or wish I could find who wrote that to laugh in their face. RE5 will likely be great to play, but once again have dialogue so awful that people, Black, White and Spaniard will come together and lynch the script writer.

 

[mr mcshiznit]

Your damn right i wouldn't call the person with the best lasagna in the state an elitist or egotist, they would be called my hero. That however, could just be the fat kid in me taking over. Honestly though i get your point but they way you stated your opinion came off as REALLY snobbish/self rightious. Like i said though i do understand what your getting at i just may not totally be on board with you. Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree right?