Poll: "The quality and innovation of Japanese video games has fallen behind their Western counterparts."

[Alphavillain]

Following certain comments from Hideo Kojima, who said that Japanese video games have fallen behind Western games -and a subsequent endorsement of this view by now ex-Team Ninja head Itagaki- I was wondering whether Escapist readers agree. (I have formulated the above statement, not Kojima.)
I tend to agree with Kojima. For example, I have been playing the demo for Ninja Gaiden 2 tonight. The combat is still superb, but boy, the camera sucks. The game seems linear and kinda... lazy. Not much innovation.
I'm aware that many Western games are not on the level of GTA4, but could anyone imagine a game of such a type being made in Japan? Japanese games seem to favour linear gameplay and strict mission objectives. Do people here think of this linearity a limitation on Japanese games or just a different way of approaching the video game experience to games like GTA and Oblivion? I add that I love Japanese and Western games alike. Thanks...

 

[MidnightRising]

Absolutely. Japanese games (namely JRPGs) have been following the same format for years: Battle, go here, battle, go here, battle...

Now it may not feel like there's much of a difference between that and Western games, but a lot of Western games are now "Go here OR here". That "or" might not sound like much, but it's giving gamers a choice, and we usually don't have very many choices.

Completely excluding RPGs, however, I still agree. Think about Call of Duty 4. Sure, it's fairly linear, but they put in perhaps the best story into any FPS out there, and that includes Half-Life 2.

I will admit that, for a very long time, Japanese games were very much ahead of Western, but times have changed greatly.

 

[Alphavillain]

There are so many elements of the various cultural differences beween Japan and the U.S./Europe that I have not even covered above. Like online: do Japanese people play games online as much as Westerners? I don't think they voice-chat as much as Westerners. All this affects what Japanese devs are prepared to put into a game. I also wonder whether Japanese society is moe specialised and the games demographic is more stratified...which means that guys that want to play Ninja Gaiden are going to be much better at that game compared to Western people that try to play the same game (hence the increased difficulty of such a game in relation to Western games).

 

[Alphavillain]

Yeah j-e-f-f-e-r-s, I was aware I maybe sounded a bit biased against Japanese games, which maybe comes out of disappointment with their recent offereings as compared to the great games I grew up with (specifically the -linear!- Mario and Zelda games).
Secondly, it's not a matter of whether NG2 is a more varied experience (in relation to sandbox), but whether it has improved in terms of supporting online play, graphics, camera...which it hasn't. A game like NG can be linear in broad terms but can still offer side-quests, alternate paths, etc.

 

[Anarchemitis]

It's like saying Japan is worse than US. You can't compare things like that.

 

[Alphavillain]

It's like saying Japan is worse than US. You can't compare things like that.

I certainly don't think Japan is worse than the U.S. I couched the question perhaps wrongly. Perhaps I should have asked about the broad differences between the two cultures which lead to different gameplay elements in games. I tend to think each Japanese game I have played majors in one specific gameplay element to a high degree, but with the advent of post-GTA3 sandbox games and Western RPGs, to a more casual gamer like myself the intense specialisation that the former demands gets a bit wearing. I also tend to think that when you do accent on one element of a game it inevitably means other elements do not work so well. I still love Japanese games dearly, they hold a mstique to me that Western games don't have...I just no longer think they're the best videogames makers in the world.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Completely excluding RPGs, however, I still agree. Think about Call of Duty 4. Sure, it's fairly linear, but they put in perhaps the best story into any FPS out there, and that includes Half-Life 2.

That depends on how you evaluate story, I find the whole "Terrorists, Russians, Betrayal" thing kinda old hat in action games/movies. But I HAVE NEVER experienced something as awesome as the sinking ship or the nuke. That was amazing story telling and presentation, that's stuff we've never seen before.

 

[Joeshie]

Yeah, I've noticed that for the past few years that Japan really has tripped in terms of creating quality gaming. I would venture to say that since the N64/PSX era, the West (well, mostly the US) has been ahead of Japan in terms of quality gaming.

I partially blame the explosion of casual gaming over in Japan and the Japanese's complete love for franchises and name-brand recognition. Not to say that these haven't happened in the West, but that they have happened to a much lesser degree.

Miyamoto also recently stated that Japan has always been behind the US in creating innovative indie games.

 

[666thHeretic]

While Western developers were working on GTA IV, Oblivion, Supreme Commander, and other games with either fantastic gameplay or stories, Japanese developers made more damn JRPGs. How many games where spiky haired emo kids stand in a line and stab monsters can Japan handle? Aren't they sick of this shit yet? I suppose they at least don't put rap music into the games, but instead they fill it with dialogue so bad I want to join the main character for a good wrist-slitting.

 

[Alex_P]

How about "They both suck in their own ways"?

The RPG genre (just like pen-and-paper RPGs) is remarkably hidebound.

I guess it's because anything that breaks the mold gets classified as some kind of "hybrid" game style, so all we're left with is a lovingly crafted pile of D&D-clones and D&D-clone-clones.

-- Alex

 

[Leorex]

western and eastern cultures at least in the gaming departments, are different.

while the western culture has begun exploring an 'open world' concept, and a 'chose your own path' type structure, this dosent offer charactures as deep as jrpgs, yet allows for more innovative game play( Mario, Fallout, Halflife). japan has stuck with character development, witch means more liner yet deeper characters.

 

[Arbre]

Blimey!
Thus far, I'm the only one who has voted for "disagree strongly".

Most of the original and enjoyable IPs I tried came from Japan, or are surfing on trends started by Japanese games (Guitar Hero).

I think the problem Kojima tries to outline is about the quantity, quality or originality of AAA titles from Japan, which seems to get lower.
Nintendo does good or great games, but they're the same stuff. Long is gone the time when they really made original and interesting games, so that's part of the Japanese's grandeur that fades away.
Sony... in house, what do they release that makes much of a difference? Dunno.

Japanese games don't focus much on the FPS genre as Western studios do, which explains the different of titles which are considered of quality or succesful.
Outside of the FPS, the situation is much more even.

Katamari Damacy. Ico. Shadow of the Colossus. Fatal Frame. Okami. Loco Roco. Patapon. Echochrome. Then some may cite Lumines, Killer 7 and No More Heroes, putting a good spin on used genres (but I'm not saying only Japan does it).

I suppose there's a form of complaint forming because of Japanese studios mass producing tons of shovelware for the local market, notably on the Wii, but it doesn't dispute the existence of great titles. The Japanese industry is arguably stepping down on the large scale of things, notably on the side of AAA titles, but it's temporary. I don't think we're about to see anything as close and dramatic as the crash of many French studios a decade ago, for example.
They'll wake up, Nintendo may suddenly realize that they have to get their brains working at 100% again, and all will be fine. Still, the situation is not as poor as some here would like it to be.

 

[Usige Beatha]

TBH, I think the Japanese have lost their footing in Character development as well. Every time I see someone playing a JRPG I just want to leave the room and guess at the storyline and general outcome*Which would probably be more rewarding in the long run*. I'm not saying the West is any better, but Japan seems to be firmly entrenched in their current level of Game design.

 

[Alex_P]

western and eastern cultures at least in the gaming departments, are different.

while the western culture has begun exploring an 'open world' concept, and a 'chose your own path' type structure, this dosent offer charactures as deep as jrpgs, yet allows for more innovative game play( Mario, Fallout, Halflife). japan has stuck with character development, witch means more liner yet deeper characters.

The JRPGs I've seen don't have particularly deep characters. The characters are quite vibrant and the games show them off well, but simplistic personalities abound. I'm not a big JRPG player, so my experience is limited, but the big, well-known JRPGs I've seen have all come off as annoyingly predictable and cliched.

(For comparison: most "western" RPGs don't fare much better.)

It's like there's one very particular set of tropes that define and "RPG" and every game just insists on regurgitating them wholesale, without question or improvement.

-- Alex

 

[stompy]

Like a few others have stated, it's like comparing apples and oranges; they both have different demographics to cater to, and so, you really can't say one's better then the other. I like some games from Japan, and some from the West.