Poll: The use of '******' in Yahtzee videos

[CrystalShadow]

My friend Gay Mike calls his female friends "fag hags", so I guess it can't be TOO offensive...

A strange, but common term.

It's specific original intent seems to have been to describe a type of woman who hangs around with gay men primarily because she finds them less threatening.

It's particularly evident as a term used to describe women who spend large amounts of time hanging around in gay clubs. (when typically, the other women in the club would be lesbians.)

 

[Doive]

[

 

[Nimcha]

No not really. If I wanted to be offended by Yahtzee I could pick a hundred other things.

 

[CarpathianMuffin]

He's usually just sarcastic, so I don't really see how it's that offensive.

 

[comet5002]

I'm pretty sure the world has fallen out of using that word as a derogatory term for homosexuals. Now it's just a general blanket insult in most cases.

 

[Terminal Blue]

I'm in no way justifying what people did to homosexuals. And I already said I use this argument when I'm talking about organised religion. But there is a still a difference between that and slavery. The level of subjugation is still vastly unequal.

I don't really understand the criteria on which you're making that call. How are you measuring subjugation in this context?

More importantly, where are you deriving the experience to make that judgement?

Also, since when are all black people former slaves? You live in the UK, most black people here don't have a single slave in their ancestry.

Excuse me? Why exactly am I on the hook? What have 'I' done that would put me on the hook?

EDIT: I had a point here originally, but it probably won't help a productive argument. I didn't mean to be personally accusative, and if you took it that way I apologise.

Saying 'There are well respected gay icons' is not equal to saying 'Black people can be doctors doncha know.'

I didn't say it was, in fact, that's not even the comment I quoted. What you're saying is that the existence of a few counter-typical and generally inoffensive gay celebrities and a few monkeys prepared to do the camp act on stage for the amusement of straight people somehow means that the position of gay people in society is all fine and dandy.

As for sport. I don't follow any sport so I couldn't say. But why should sexuality be an issue at all? Strait people don't openly scream 'I'm strait' as soon as they become famous.

Straight people don't have to openly scream anything. They are recognized and assumed to be straight on sight. There is no risk of them being outed or exposed and suffering any subsequent consequences.

If you're gay, you either have to tell people (be it directly or through adopting certain clothes or mannerisms, again leading to stereotyping) or you hide it. You don't get to just be yourself and be accepted, you have to actually think about these things all the time. It is getting a lot better and the consequences of being outed are definitely less negative, but still, positioning yourself in these kind of situations can be hard.

Yes it does. Fag clearly doesn't simply mean gay anymore. It's taken on a meaning of it's own.

Look, whatever situations you get called a 'fag' in, it's not the same. Rather than making 'clear' judgements from on high about what the word means, maybe think about the context in which you get called a fag and the context in which I or other people might get called a fag.

My point all along has been that the word derives meaning in context. It can still be a homophobic insult, I've heard it used as such countless times.

I live in Manchester. I never said there is no intolerance anywhere. But if you think it's widespread or the majority consensus you're mistaken.

Did I say it was?

Racism isn't the majority consensus, it's still a serious social problem which you have to be lucky as a black person not to deal with.

Did you read my post? I'm reflecting on real experiences, not indulging a paranoid fantasy. I know how often homophobic abuse happens because I've suffered it and I've had friends who have suffered it. It's not everyday, but seriously, you don't get to decide how deeply affected I or other people should be. You haven't had any of the same experiences, so I don't see how you're making that judgement.

 

[loc978]

One of Yahtzee's purposes in life seems to be to offend the easily offended. I understand his position completely.

 

[kebab4you]

mhe, don't really consider "******" or "fag" as a word for a man that loves other men, but that´s just me, so no it´s as any other vulgar word.

No, not really. I only don't like the word if it's used in a hateful sense towards someone who's homosexual.

The word "******" or "fag" doesn't really come off as an insult towards gays anymore, rather just an insult towards someone in general like calling them a "dick" or something like that.

This.
By the way, people who are offended by that shouldn't ever, ever visit 4chan's /b/.

Not quite true, all the boards use fag as a description such as for nationality.

 

[C95J]

some people must be pretty stupid to watch his videos and get offended by a word when you should know damn well he isn't exactly child friendly...

 

[Terminal Blue]

It's pretty simple. Gay people were never sold into slavery, there has never been a gay genocide, No gay holocaust has ever happened. Yet these are all things that have happened to race and creed. Subjugation.... not equal.

Like I said, not all black people were sold into slavery. Some gay people were locked up and had medical experiments performed on them. Individual accounts may differ, and you don't get to decide what constitutes important. That gets formed in context.

Essentially what you're saying here is 'coz ur not gay'. That's a low way to win an argument. An even lower way to distribute blame. I am not to blame for anything. I won't take responsibility for what other people have done to homosexuals. Just like I won't take responsibility for what other people did to anyone else.

I figured you'd react like this.

Yeah.. I blame you for not knowing what fag means when applied to non-heterosexuals. I also blame myself for not knowing what ****** means when applied to black people.

As long as you keep thinking you can speak for everyone on this, I'll try and hold you to account for that.

The fact that people assume someone is strait unless they say otherwise means nothing. Whether you like it or not. Being strait is the normal way to be. Being gay is an abnormality.

Wow, I didn't have to work too hard to get the heterocentrism out.

I'm actually kind of angry at this, so I'm just going to drop it. Needless to say, I don't think there's a normal thing to do with your penis, it doesn't exactly come with an instruction manual.

I don't care who you bone. You seem to have made pre-packed judgements about all hetros because of how 2-3 lowlifes have treated you. Tell me how that's any different from what you've experienced?

I'm not entirely sure where you got that from, because I'm reading my post back to myself and I can't see the relevance. You also seem to be assuming I only get the one angle, I've had relationships with women (including straight women, now I come to think of it) and I've only ever had problems passing for straight when I'm actively involved with other men. If I hated and blamed all straight people I'd have a pretty miserable time.

I gave you personal experiences as evidence to counter your expressed view that a) the word fag is not homophobic abuse and b) that homophobia is isolated and doesn't happen except in banjo strumming hell holes. What I do blame you for is lecturing me on what words I've encountered in context in real life mean. I'm saying that it doesn't matter what you decide a word means, people (not you, other specific people) still use it in context as a homophobic slur. Maybe not when they say it to you, but in other situations.

I never said there are no people who use it in that way. But it has adopted more of a meaning that simply a derogatory term for gays.

I agree with you. But it only acquires that meaning in context when it is used. Hence why when Yahtzee uses it it's fine (as I said about 5 pages ago). In many situations, however, it's not fine, and you need to be fucking clear about that, not just justify any use with 'oh.. well this is what it means now'.

That's not how it works. You're experiences don't equate to the rest of humanity. And I reserve the right to tell you how much of a judgemental, overly sensitive ****** you're being. (In-case you're wondering. I'm using that word how I like to. As a random insult.)

Cool, I reserve the right to tell you you're a privilege-denying heterocentrist twat, and I mean that as a random insult too.

 

[Terminal Blue]

I'm going to agree to disagree on most of this. Clearly we have slightly different views of what the word means, and I still think it's highly suspect to come from a position where you're only ever going to hear that word used as a meaningless joke and just tell everyone else that they should grow a pair because they don't laugh it off when its used in a genuinely homophobic context.

You're denying privilege because you're denying that you have the luxury of shrugging that off in a way other people might not.

Explain to me again how I deny privilege? Or how being rational makes you hetrocentical? I accept that I'm a twat though.

You're acting like the textbook definition of a heterocentrist. As you've said, you think that the purpose of sex is reproduction (because straight people never fuck without intending to get pregnant) and thus that its an abnormality to want to rub your genitals against anything other than the single organ (because again, straight sex never involves anything but the mandated vaginal grinding).

I find it a bit confusing because you're clearly smart enough to realize that all people (gay, straight or whatever) are complex and perverse when it comes to sexual preference, yet you're still totally prepared to make the call for everyone in the world as to what its biologically normal to do with your bodies.

Find me a normal human being and I'll show you a minority.

See, this is why not being heterosexual used to get you sent to an asylum. It's one step from being abnormal to needing to be cured.

 

[Andrew Bohan]

I'm bisexual and I don't give a fuck.
IT'S JUST A WORD, GET OVER YOURSELVES.

+1

 

[Andrew Bohan]

Well, you are likewise pissing me off. Because of your density.

1)For you to say "there is a massive difference between what gay people have been through and what black people went through" is actually moronic. And offensive. And completely disrespectful.

Discrimination is discrimination. It doesn't have degrees of severity. There isn't any "equal" or "less valid" discrimination. It's all WRONG.

And really, is there a major difference between being enslaved as a group, and then just outright being sought for and KILLED? Throughout history, and up through today's times? I don't really think so. But, that's beside the point. Because, there aren't any comparisons here being made. There isn't any competition being made. Wrong is wrong. I can't believe you would even go as far as to essentially say "their issue is less important because they haven't really been through it tough." That's just really fucking wrong.


2)There are no gay jokes anymore, huh? They may have declined in stature, but they still exist. Yeah...................heard of the movie The Dilemma? That movie went as far as saying (paraphrasing) "That's a gay car, no real men would ever drive such an unmanly, girly car." Did you not know of that entire firestorm? Ron Howard directed the movie, and kept the line in the script, and most people approved of this. It is STILL OK to use gay people as a punching bag, the only difference is that there are consequences for it, the way things should be.

To say comedians "don't act like gay men", I never said that. I said many use gay men in their acts as punchlines. And you say that's because some gay men debase themselves to be famous, and act outlandish and ridiculous. Yeah...............right. Who are those gay men, again? Neil Patrick Harris? Stephen Fry? Or is it just a stereotype and assumption that all gay men are flamboyant queens. Just yesterday I heard jokes made about Rosie O'Donnell. Why are gay/lesbian people still defined by their sexuality? That's the reality of the situation. Gay is still GAY!!!!11!!! to a lot of people.

There is still homophobia in the UK. Insecurity of homosexuality is a personal thing, that is exacerbated by society, but not the sole cause of it. Gay/lesbian relationships are still classified as civil partnerships, and not marriage.

3)Are you serious in thinking ****** is not used against white people? Don't act like a ******. Don't hang with niggers. Don't be a ******. It's even implied with WIGGER, meaning, a white ******, which is a pretty popular term. I see this on YOUTUBE all the time. Wigger/****** are used by kids a lot. I live in southern USA, Richmond Virginia, capital of the confederacy. ****** isn't even necessary used against black individuals anymore in the way you think it is. It's basically used as an act. Don't ACT like a ******. That is the same thing with ******. Don't BE a ******, don't act like a ******. It's the same shit. But, you do live in the UK, so these terms and the way they are used may be foreign to you. It's a reality, it isn't a myth being blown out of proportion.

4)The UK is one of the best and really only places in the world where LGBT citizens have equality and are generally free from discrimination and hatred. But even there, there is still discrimination. It still exists. Homophobia is extremely prevalent worldwide. Most countries do not grant full equality to LGBT citizens. Most people are homophobic due to sexuality issues, or because of brainwashing, usually from those with sexuality issues. Something like 72 countries have policies against homosexuality.

Homophobia is real. And you don't do any favors in preventing it, and making the world a better place for your gay friends and LGBT citizens worldwide, by trivializing the depths of it.

Eugh. Too much shit to sift through.

I'm going to simplify everything.

1)There is a massive difference. Argue all you want. Doesn't change anything, I'm not saying what happened to homosexuals is in anyway excusable. And I've already told you I have arguments with anyone who is in actual fact a homophobe. Saying ****** doesn't make you one I'm afraid.

2) I didn't say they don't exist. I said they aren't the 'go to' joke that you assume they are. Gay jokes are pretty much out of fashion now.

3) Fair enough. Not something I've ever come across. But it does sound like something that would be said. I still say there is the difference because they use it to imply black people are less than human. Most people who say fag don't imply anything to do with gayness. Just as a base insult.

4) The UK isn't the best. Yes intolerance still happens. But that's life. Humans are intolerant. Simple as. Doesn't excuse it. Although it does explain it. And there are plenty of countries far better than even the UK with acceptance of homosexuality. Scandinavian countries for example. It's pretty much a none issue in those.

1)I never said using the word ****** makes you a homophobe. It does make you insensitive if you use it, knowing the pain it causes gay men worldwide, and not caring. But, sorry, there isn't a "massive difference" other than a difference of EVENTS. In terms of discrimination, it's all wrong. There isn't any argument, and yes, you are implying that anti-gay discrimination is of less value because it's lesser discriminatory. Hate is hate, none of it is any worse or better than the rest.

2)Gay jokes are not out of fashion at all, not in my existence. There are fewer than before, but they still do continue. And gay/lesbian people are still mocked, with stereotypes of them used against them. The show "Modern Family" with the two extremely flamboyant gays are basically a running stereotype. Stereotypes against gay/lesbian people are used for heterosexual enjoyment. It's OK if it happens less; the fact it happens at all is the bigger issue.

3)Fag is used as a base insult because homosexuality is considered an insult to many.

4)The UK is really one of the best countries, not the best, but right up there. The Netherlands is generally considered the best, but that isn't true anymore, because of Muslims. Sweden, Finland, Denmark etc. are generally good, but not OVERLY gay accepting either. There isn't any country where homosexuality is really accepted. It's beyond tolerated, but it's not really accepted anywhere. Humans are intolerant, but that doesn't really explain. The problem is the threat/fear people feel of difference. That's learned. And we all need to do our part to change that.

I'm gonna pick you off on point 2 right there. Redneck jokes are fine when it's an archetype applied for humor. Black people get it in quite a few shows too. Alot, and I mean ALOT, of groups are subject to this so as a bisexual if I can't see why the GLBT community should be any different then explain why you do? After all surely EVERYTHING is ok to joke about or nothing is.

 

[Daffy F]

Nope, the word has evolved, and it now very rarely used in a derogatory way at Gay people.

 

[101flyboy]

Wow, I didn't have to work too hard to get the heterocentrism out.

I'm actually kind of angry at this, so I'm just going to drop it. Needless to say, I don't think there's a normal thing to do with your penis, it doesn't exactly come with an instruction manual.

I'm not going to apologise for being rational.

Biologically. Homosexuality is an abnormality. Whether it be from something in the brain, spirituality, environmental factors. Whatever. I don't pretend to understand why some people want to fuck fatties, some want twiglets, some like black people, some like women with big feet, some like to cross swords with their own gender.

Just because I don't judge peoples choices doesn't mean that I think they're normal. Sex at it's base form is a means for procreation. Procreation is not possible between partners of the same gender. Not an issue now. With artificial insemination and adoption. But then again humans don't exactly live entirely natural lives now do they.

Yeah, um, if you think sex is purely for procreation, and thus, homosexuality is abnormal (please look up the definition, you don't know it) and unnatural, then no, you are not even remotely rational, and yes, you do have some things you need to address in terms of your true feelings of homosexuals/homosexuality. Because your dismissive and borderline hostile responses are not one of someone who is actually the accepting person you say you are. And the way you try to justify the usage of ****** and that's so gay, while diminishing the fact people are abused with these terms slung at them, does pretty much show you aren't remotely capable of looking at things through the eyes of anyone but yourself.

 

[101flyboy]

Well, you are likewise pissing me off. Because of your density.

1)For you to say "there is a massive difference between what gay people have been through and what black people went through" is actually moronic. And offensive. And completely disrespectful.

Discrimination is discrimination. It doesn't have degrees of severity. There isn't any "equal" or "less valid" discrimination. It's all WRONG.

And really, is there a major difference between being enslaved as a group, and then just outright being sought for and KILLED? Throughout history, and up through today's times? I don't really think so. But, that's beside the point. Because, there aren't any comparisons here being made. There isn't any competition being made. Wrong is wrong. I can't believe you would even go as far as to essentially say "their issue is less important because they haven't really been through it tough." That's just really fucking wrong.


2)There are no gay jokes anymore, huh? They may have declined in stature, but they still exist. Yeah...................heard of the movie The Dilemma? That movie went as far as saying (paraphrasing) "That's a gay car, no real men would ever drive such an unmanly, girly car." Did you not know of that entire firestorm? Ron Howard directed the movie, and kept the line in the script, and most people approved of this. It is STILL OK to use gay people as a punching bag, the only difference is that there are consequences for it, the way things should be.

To say comedians "don't act like gay men", I never said that. I said many use gay men in their acts as punchlines. And you say that's because some gay men debase themselves to be famous, and act outlandish and ridiculous. Yeah...............right. Who are those gay men, again? Neil Patrick Harris? Stephen Fry? Or is it just a stereotype and assumption that all gay men are flamboyant queens. Just yesterday I heard jokes made about Rosie O'Donnell. Why are gay/lesbian people still defined by their sexuality? That's the reality of the situation. Gay is still GAY!!!!11!!! to a lot of people.

There is still homophobia in the UK. Insecurity of homosexuality is a personal thing, that is exacerbated by society, but not the sole cause of it. Gay/lesbian relationships are still classified as civil partnerships, and not marriage.

3)Are you serious in thinking ****** is not used against white people? Don't act like a ******. Don't hang with niggers. Don't be a ******. It's even implied with WIGGER, meaning, a white ******, which is a pretty popular term. I see this on YOUTUBE all the time. Wigger/****** are used by kids a lot. I live in southern USA, Richmond Virginia, capital of the confederacy. ****** isn't even necessary used against black individuals anymore in the way you think it is. It's basically used as an act. Don't ACT like a ******. That is the same thing with ******. Don't BE a ******, don't act like a ******. It's the same shit. But, you do live in the UK, so these terms and the way they are used may be foreign to you. It's a reality, it isn't a myth being blown out of proportion.

4)The UK is one of the best and really only places in the world where LGBT citizens have equality and are generally free from discrimination and hatred. But even there, there is still discrimination. It still exists. Homophobia is extremely prevalent worldwide. Most countries do not grant full equality to LGBT citizens. Most people are homophobic due to sexuality issues, or because of brainwashing, usually from those with sexuality issues. Something like 72 countries have policies against homosexuality.

Homophobia is real. And you don't do any favors in preventing it, and making the world a better place for your gay friends and LGBT citizens worldwide, by trivializing the depths of it.

Eugh. Too much shit to sift through.

I'm going to simplify everything.

1)There is a massive difference. Argue all you want. Doesn't change anything, I'm not saying what happened to homosexuals is in anyway excusable. And I've already told you I have arguments with anyone who is in actual fact a homophobe. Saying ****** doesn't make you one I'm afraid.

2) I didn't say they don't exist. I said they aren't the 'go to' joke that you assume they are. Gay jokes are pretty much out of fashion now.

3) Fair enough. Not something I've ever come across. But it does sound like something that would be said. I still say there is the difference because they use it to imply black people are less than human. Most people who say fag don't imply anything to do with gayness. Just as a base insult.

4) The UK isn't the best. Yes intolerance still happens. But that's life. Humans are intolerant. Simple as. Doesn't excuse it. Although it does explain it. And there are plenty of countries far better than even the UK with acceptance of homosexuality. Scandinavian countries for example. It's pretty much a none issue in those.

1)I never said using the word ****** makes you a homophobe. It does make you insensitive if you use it, knowing the pain it causes gay men worldwide, and not caring. But, sorry, there isn't a "massive difference" other than a difference of EVENTS. In terms of discrimination, it's all wrong. There isn't any argument, and yes, you are implying that anti-gay discrimination is of less value because it's lesser discriminatory. Hate is hate, none of it is any worse or better than the rest.

2)Gay jokes are not out of fashion at all, not in my existence. There are fewer than before, but they still do continue. And gay/lesbian people are still mocked, with stereotypes of them used against them. The show "Modern Family" with the two extremely flamboyant gays are basically a running stereotype. Stereotypes against gay/lesbian people are used for heterosexual enjoyment. It's OK if it happens less; the fact it happens at all is the bigger issue.

3)Fag is used as a base insult because homosexuality is considered an insult to many.

4)The UK is really one of the best countries, not the best, but right up there. The Netherlands is generally considered the best, but that isn't true anymore, because of Muslims. Sweden, Finland, Denmark etc. are generally good, but not OVERLY gay accepting either. There isn't any country where homosexuality is really accepted. It's beyond tolerated, but it's not really accepted anywhere. Humans are intolerant, but that doesn't really explain. The problem is the threat/fear people feel of difference. That's learned. And we all need to do our part to change that.

I'm gonna pick you off on point 2 right there. Redneck jokes are fine when it's an archetype applied for humor. Black people get it in quite a few shows too. Alot, and I mean ALOT, of groups are subject to this so as a bisexual if I can't see why the GLBT community should be any different then explain why you do? After all surely EVERYTHING is ok to joke about or nothing is.

There is a difference between joking about something, and making a joke of something.