Poll: Thrall or Garrosh?

[Taunta]

I've grown to like Garrosh a lot. He's actually shown growth of character since The Burning Crusade, and I like to think that his heavy-handed political dealings are trying to make up for how people thought he would be a terrible leader in Garadar. I don't agree with some of his dealings, like his treatment of Vol'jin, but if you've ever played through Stonetalon Mountains (I won't spoil), the quest 'To be Horde' really gave me some respect for him.

Also, I agree with how Thrall is a non-character. He's the jack of all trades, the Jesus of WoW, and a lot of my love for him is little more than hero worship. Garrosh is simply more relatable as a character, and his policies are better given the situation, considering the Horde is now competing with the Alliance for diminished resources.

I'm going to be straight: I don't like Sylvanas. She's all ready to go "Boo Hoo Thrall and Vol'jin save me Varimathras took my city" (Idk why she didn't see that one coming from a mile away) but she's perfectly willing to defy Thrall's (and by extension, Garrosh's) orders to not produce the plague, and she isn't aware that she's essentially turning into what she's been driven to kill for so long. Any character who has the balls to tell her, in no uncertain terms, to STFU is perfectly okay in my book.

I don't think Garrosh is going to destroy the Horde any more than Sylvanas is going to kill Bolvar and take the Helm of Command for herself. Not totally out of the realm of possibility, but not likely.

Like he's the one who started the whole Horde right?

The founder of the current horde as we know it was actually Orgrim Doomhammer, who passed it on to Thrall, hence the Horde gunship being named "Orgrim's Hammer".


I'm sorry for the Thrall/Jaina fans in here, but Metzen sunk that ship a long time ago. He has Aggra now. :/

 

[Dragonpit]

I'm for Thrall. He at least had the mindset to think about what he was doing. Garrosh...well...

Spoiler

If anyone playing the Horde side goes to Twilight Highlands through the quest line, they'll join Garrosh in the zeppelin fleet. Along the way, just as they are entering the highlands, someone spots the Alliance aerial fleet and reports it. Garrosh immediately orders the goblin biplane escorts to attack the Alliance. Now, putting aside the fact that he ordered an attack on the Alliance unprovoked, he did so in the middle of enemy territory! This point immediately comes back to bite him as the Horde fleet is soon assaulted by Twilight dragons. While many Horde troops, Garrosh included, survive the assault despite being shot down, it was still a stupid move strategically.

I hope it was worth it, Garrosh!

Anyone who has read the Warcraft book, The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm knows that Garrosh has become a leader of sizable merit. However, he is less concerned with what the orcs and the rest of the Horde needs and more concerned with his own twisted concept of honor, which involves slaughtering the enemy any chance he gets and royally pissing off the Alliance's leader, Varian Wyrm. Granted, Varian isn't much better since he easily rises to Garrosh's bait as easily as Garrosh would to Varian's, but then this is partially due to some of Varian's own personal problems stemming from being almost literally split in half into a bloodthirsty gladiator for the Horde and an imprisoned gentlemen in the company of the Black Dragon, Onyxia, for a while. Truthfully, I don't have that much love for the Alliance, with their...genericity and slight incompetence, but as far as leaders go, if I couldn't work under Thrall, I rather work under Varian than Garrosh.

...You know what? Screw them both. Varian and Garrosh deserve each other.

 

[Jim Grim]

No one likes Garrosh, I thought that was the point. He's a ruthless arsehole.

 

[BoredDragon]

let's see, most powerful shaman alive vs dumbass. I think I'm going with the most powerful shaman alive.

I'm for Thrall. He at least had the mindset to think about what he was doing. Garrosh...well...

Spoiler

If anyone playing the Horde side goes to Twilight Highlands through the quest line, they'll join Garrosh in the zeppelin fleet. Along the way, just as they are entering the highlands, someone spots the Alliance aerial fleet and reports it. Garrosh immediately orders the goblin biplane escorts to attack the Alliance. Now, putting aside the fact that he ordered an attack on the Alliance unprovoked, he did so in the middle of enemy territory! This point immediately comes back to bite him as the Horde fleet is soon assaulted by Twilight dragons. While many Horde troops, Garrosh included, survive the assault despite being shot down, it was still a stupid move strategically.

I hope it was worth it, Garrosh!

Goblin - "What kind of mad man sends away his personal guard in enemy territory!?!"

*orc punch*

orc - "a winner that's who"

*enter Deathwing and twighlithgt dragons*

... like I said, Hellscream is a dumbass

 

[Taunta]

I hope it was worth it, Garrosh!

I wouldn't say it was "unprovoked", considering the Alliance and Horde are at open war. It's a red=dead situation. It's not completely enemy territory. They were heading towards the Dragonmaw foothold in it, it's not like they were flying right over the Twilight Citadel. Also, hindsight is 20/20. He had no way of knowing that he was about to be set upon by Twilight dragons, instead of just being a normal dogfight.

However, he is less concerned with what the orcs and the rest of the Horde needs and more concerned with his own twisted concept of honor, which involves slaughtering the enemy any chance he gets and royally pissing off the Alliance's leader, Varian Wyrm.

I think you need to read Garrosh's narrative in the Stonetalon 'To be Horde' quest chain to understand why that is incorrect.

 

[Dragonpit]

I hope it was worth it, Garrosh!

I wouldn't say it was "unprovoked", considering the Alliance and Horde are at open war. It's a red=dead situation. It's not completely enemy territory. They were heading towards the Dragonmaw foothold in it, it's not like they were flying right over the Twilight Citadel. Also, hindsight is 20/20. He had no way of knowing that he was about to be set upon by Twilight dragons, instead of just being a normal dogfight.

However, he is less concerned with what the orcs and the rest of the Horde needs and more concerned with his own twisted concept of honor, which involves slaughtering the enemy any chance he gets and royally pissing off the Alliance's leader, Varian Wyrm.

I think you need to read Garrosh's narrative in the Stonetalon 'To be Horde' quest chain to understand why that is incorrect.

So it's officially the Fourth War? I guess I must've missed that.

That said, hindsight is a poor excuse. It was already clear the Twilight cult had aerial units on their side and mountainous areas are excellent places for ambushes, even from the skies. Even if the part about there being spies in Orgrimmar wasn't clear at the time, is it not the leader's job to at least expect such an obvious tactic? I mean, I don't think the Twilight cult would be so foolish as to not post sentries in areas where they operate at the very least, especially since it is Deathwing they work for.

The Stonetalon quest line? Post-cata? Huh...I'll have to go back and look that up, too. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Dragonpit]

Goblin - "What kind of mad man sends away his personal guard in enemy territory!?!"

If a goblin calls him mad, then there must be something wrong here.

 

[Bobbity]

Thrall by a long shot. I'm Alliance, so I'm biased, but his story, elemental ties and willingness to give up his position to fight a greater evil really gets him in my good books. Besides that, he's closely connected with Jaina, who I believe could be the most effective leader of the Alliance.

 

[Taunta]

I hope it was worth it, Garrosh!

I wouldn't say it was "unprovoked", considering the Alliance and Horde are at open war. It's a red=dead situation. It's not completely enemy territory. They were heading towards the Dragonmaw foothold in it, it's not like they were flying right over the Twilight Citadel. Also, hindsight is 20/20. He had no way of knowing that he was about to be set upon by Twilight dragons, instead of just being a normal dogfight.

However, he is less concerned with what the orcs and the rest of the Horde needs and more concerned with his own twisted concept of honor, which involves slaughtering the enemy any chance he gets and royally pissing off the Alliance's leader, Varian Wyrm.

I think you need to read Garrosh's narrative in the Stonetalon 'To be Horde' quest chain to understand why that is incorrect.

So it's officially the Fourth War? I guess I must've missed that.

That said, hindsight is a poor excuse. It was already clear the Twilight cult had aerial units on their side and mountainous areas are excellent places for ambushes, even from the skies. Even if the part about there being spies in Orgrimmar wasn't clear at the time, is it not the leader's job to at least expect such an obvious tactic? I mean, I don't think the Twilight cult would be so foolish as to not post sentries in areas where they operate at the very least, especially since it is Deathwing they work for.

The Stonetalon quest line? Post-cata? Huh...I'll have to go back and look that up, too. Thanks for pointing it out.

Using that logic, it's also Thrall's fault for getting himself captured by Alliance during the goblin starting zone. He should have known that Alliance ships would be patrolling the ocean in between Orgrimmar and the Maelstrom, and brought more support.

No prob. It definitely changed how I felt about Garrosh.

 

[Laurie Barnes]

If you asked me who I thought should be leading the Horde, I would say Garrosh. His ideals are on the whole a better representation of the Horde mentality, with the obvious exception of the Tauren. Thrall tried for peace, and the Alliance refused, maybe after a few decades of fighting Garrosh's "New Horde" the will have a better understanding of why they should have accepted Thrall's offer.

If you asked me who I'd rather have a beer with, it would have to be Thrall. He seems like he'd be a lot less likely to tear me in half and violate my remains after a Jack&Coke.

 

[Dragonpit]

Using that logic, it's also Thrall's fault for getting himself captured by Alliance during the goblin starting zone. He should have known that Alliance ships would be patrolling the ocean in between Orgrimmar and the Maelstrom, and brought more support.

I won't argue that point, since I haven't been to the goblin starting zone. My point is that some things are just common sense. I mean, if a goblin says doing something like that is mad, I'm thinking it might be reason enough to think twice.

 

[MazzaTheFirst]

I like Thrall for thinking long term relations and being level minded most of the time.
I dislike Thrall for being a bit... easy to pushover. He seems easy to manipulate if you hold promises of peace.

I like Garrosh for finally bringing back the bloodlust of the Horde while acknowledging honour in war.
I dislike Garrosh for his arrogant attitude and that he has really really stupid tactics in fighting a war...

Should of been Cairne Bloodhoof for Warchief if it wasn't for those Grimtotem bastards. That said, I look forward to Vol'jin dealing with Garrosh one day. Trolls are cool.