Poll: Tomb Raider reboot, what is your opinion on it now?
- Thread starter Erttheking
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Well, my personal definition of sexist is "implying that one of the genders is inferior/superior to the other" so let's go with that.lacktheknack said:
Like erttheking reminded you that was one guy's view. Why hang on it? He isn't even a writer or designer on the game.TehCookie said:
On its own it's view that has a right to exist IMO. I think he was incorrect because he was generalizing. Not everyone role-plays the protagonist though.
Wat?TehCookie said:
I was just playing Tomb Raider 3 a few minutes ago. For all of your intents and purposes, I was Lara's brain, yes. Just as it will be in the new Tomb Raider. If I didn't press buttons, Lara wouldn't save herself, she'd die. It I left the keyboard alone, she won't solve puzzles herself, I'm Lara.
Are you saying that the new Lara does stuff by herself? Did this turn into "Experiment 114" or "Republique" when I wasn't looking?
Then no. We don't even have a main male character to compare her to, as far as I can tell.erttheking said:
I don't think it's as simple as a sexist/not-sexist binary switch you can flip, or making non-sexist games would certainly be easier! The way that the character is being talked about in the media makes me uneasy though. Not just because of that oogy implication one guy made about her finding her strength through a rape attempt (though seriously, that trope is so old is has moss on it) but that we're meant to feel like we're guiding her and protecting her rather than wishing to be her. There's a difference in atmosphere in a game where we cringe at Lara being hit because our delicate charge was injured and cringing at Lara being hit because that had to hurt.
From what I've played of the more recent Tomb Raider games, think Uncharted but not quite so many cinematics. The older ones, I couldn't say. I couldn't get very far into the first one and never played the others that were like it.DustyDrB said:
I like the way the new Tomb Raider looks. Of course, I wanna see a gameplay video before deciding whether I get it or not but it doesn't look all that bad. I like the new Laura(dem eyes) and and the setting looks rather neat.
Well, there was a gameplay clip from E3 2012, it looks pretty good.Exius Xavarus said:
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I didn't care at all about Tomb Raider before this game, but it has really caught my attention. Mostly because it seems to try to humanize Lara, give us a strong female lead and for once a main character who has to suffer and endure to learn how to survive.
Sexism? I'm not sure, I haven't payed attention that much after the first trailer scandal. And about that, I can see it going either way. It might just be my white, matriarchal man brain talking, but I don't see the rape attempt itself as an issue. It seems like a realistic enough of a situation, something that would motivate the player to despise the villains and give Lara some kind of a push over the edge. Sure, the idea itself is kinda repulsive, but I think it should be, shouldn't it? Besides, it's not like movies and tv hadn't skinnydipped into this subject before.
As for the intention to "make us want to protect Lara"... Yeah, that sound weak. That sound really weak and makes me quite worried.
Sexism? I'm not sure, I haven't payed attention that much after the first trailer scandal. And about that, I can see it going either way. It might just be my white, matriarchal man brain talking, but I don't see the rape attempt itself as an issue. It seems like a realistic enough of a situation, something that would motivate the player to despise the villains and give Lara some kind of a push over the edge. Sure, the idea itself is kinda repulsive, but I think it should be, shouldn't it? Besides, it's not like movies and tv hadn't skinnydipped into this subject before.
As for the intention to "make us want to protect Lara"... Yeah, that sound weak. That sound really weak and makes me quite worried.
You wouldn't take it back when everyone started getting angry over it? They want to make gamers happy, having an angry mob doesn't help sales.erttheking said:
Just because you have trouble doesn't mean others do. Also as I said before in the rape scene you're not suppose to relate or empathize with her. If you played the scene and it helps you understand the helplessness or whatever she felt that would at least be passable. Although I would still dislike it since those stories don't appeal to me. That is coming from one that one dude said, but I haven't heard any more details on it. The dev team denied it but did they clarify what reaction they wanted from that scene?erttheking said:
No offense, that's how I played the games. Role-playing doesn't mean you have a stagnate personality, when something bad happens and it shakes the character you get to play that out as well.erttheking said:
So what, are you saying that they're flat out lying? The way I see it, some idiot just went and shot his mouth off.TehCookie said:
Ok first of all, it was only implied rape, and as someone who has watched the scene "implied" is the key word here, because if there hadn't been a big fuss about it, my mind might not have made the leap from what happened in that scene to "he's going to rape her". And maybe this is my inner writer talking, but having bad things happen to characters is pretty common, it makes characters sympathetic and gets us on their side, and it helps that Lara ends up fighting off her assaulter and kills him, showing that she's far from helpless. That's what I took away from that scene, Lara was going to go through a metric ton of crap, but that she had what it takes to take it on. I want to see her get back up, I want to see her overcome this. Like I said, you're basing your entire opinion off of what one guy said, even when the dev team said that he was full of it.
Like I said, my mind is hardwired so that I can't do that. I always view the character as a separate entity. I feel bad for them when bad things happen to them and I like it when they're sympathetic, but they're always separate from me. But hey, different strokes for different folks, am I right?
The fact that Lara's breasts have been reduced in size from grapefruits to that of a regular fit woman's is a step in the right direction. Pointlessly giant breasts for a woman who is going to be leaping from high ledges to grab on to other high ledges makes me wince. The original Tomb Raider series was simply sexist, the main character was just T&A.
This new Lara is a far more healthy and organic reboot. Her story is more developed than "big breasted British Batman". I do not like the name though "Tomb Raider", does she actually raid tombs? Should't the series be called "Lara Croft" or something? But I guess brand recognition is more important than practical naming conventions.
This new Lara is a far more healthy and organic reboot. Her story is more developed than "big breasted British Batman". I do not like the name though "Tomb Raider", does she actually raid tombs? Should't the series be called "Lara Croft" or something? But I guess brand recognition is more important than practical naming conventions.
The implied didn't even come up til later when everyone was freaking out at the rape. Also tropes like a traumatic incident only work if they're well written. When you get to something controversial like rape it's even harder to get it right, especially since every reacts differently. Not to mention games are not movies or books and have the interactive element which makes them even harder to write for. You said she's going through a metric ton of crap, but wasn't that suppose to be her first kill? I was guessing that that scene was going to happen early in the game.erttheking said:
Though is the scene even public? I haven't seen it yet so that's why I'm going off what that guy said. Those send two completely different images for her character. Though I didn't ask for your reaction I asked what the dev team wanted. They denied what that guy said but never said what they meant. Not to mention devs don't always speak the truth, they deny leaked endings or will change things due to backlash.
The first Tomb Raider game didn't really use cinematics or really even have a story. Tomb Raider 2 is when it seemed like they took a look at Resident Evil 1 and thought a story would be cool - and it was at the time. But more sequels came out and none of the plots were very relative to any of the previous games. There were a couple cameos but that is about it. You saw no progression or character development/exploration. Actually they all had very minimal story arcs. Cutscenes only really offered a whipped reason for why the next level was where it was. (Mayan Tomb, Tibetan Tomb, etc.) Cutscenes didn't really offer much in the way of story telling other than Lara is a firecracker and after some guy who is supposedly evil and she probably knows a whole bunch of info about him already but only mentions it when it is convenient to the plot. It is heavily dosed in very contrived plot devises in general.Exius Xavarus said:
If they planned to make a coherent story out of all the jibber ish they wrote before (basically random tales with no foundation in anything) they would need to make a foundation to build on. It is easy to see that this new game is trying to be used as a foundation for story telling. There is no other purpose for an origin story in writing. It would be cool if they could incorporate the previous games into the canon but as far as I'm concerned, they don't have to. Let those who like the shallow predecessors have them and give those that would like to see Lara's character archetype explored get something interesting to see. She will end up a bad ass again by the end of this one anyways so I'll be tickled either way.
There is a rundown though.
Well being one of the people that likes the series and didn't think disproportionate Lara was really sexist. Yeah, she had tits that looked like she hid melons down her T-shirt and an ass that... Well, actually, I never paid attention to that part of her, I assume it was a bit big too, but she was an independant, sexy, strong and fucking bad-ass lady version of Indian Jones. As for the new one, it's hardly sexist. Yeah, she's a woman who gets beaten up and brutalized by nasty men... Remember Dead Space? Where Issac had a similar treatment? Yeah, would that be sexist if Issac had boobs and
wide, pleasing hips? No!
wide, pleasing hips? No!