Poll: Video Games and Sexual Preference

[Meggiepants]

So, I am thinking about posting this as a topic on the Bioware Social forums, but I thought I'd come here first because most of the people on Bioware are huge fans of Bioware products specifically, and I thought the Escapist represents a better cross section of gamers than the Bioware forums.

As some of you have probably seen, there was a guy who thinks in Dragon Age 2 Bioware is neglecting, as he puts it, the "Straight Male Gamer." [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.272766-Dragon-Age-2-Lead-Writer-Blasts-Homophobic-Fan]

Now, I think this guy is nutso, mostly because I could just as easily say the game is neglecting me; I didn't like any of the romances either, and I'm a girl gamer. But David Gaider, the head writer for Dragon Age, responded rather eloquently:

"Romances are never one-size-fits-all, and even for those who don't mind the sexuality issue there's no guarantee they'll find a character they even want to romance. That's why romances are optional content. It's such a personal issue that we'll never be able to please everyone. The very best we can do is give everyone a little bit of choice, and that's what we tried here."

However, as much as I understand this, I also have heard directly from a variety of guys, including some of my male Escapist friends, that they feel a little uncomfortable being hit on by a dude. As we have seen from other threads, and if you have played the game you probably know this, being nice to Anders means at some point early on, he's going to flirt with you regardless of your gender. You get three choices at that point, two flirts and one, "Hey dude, I ain't into you that way," kind of response.

Now, I wish we could live in a world where this doesn't make people uncomfortable, but I'm a realist, and I know that world doesn't exist right now. I also know that the poster who suggested Bioware was neglecting him had a suggestion that just doesn't work for a progressive company like Bioware. Having a "No Homosexual Content" option does, in my opinion, make it seem like homosexuality is an objectionable thing. It's hard for me to explain this, but in a way, it puts the homosexuality in a negative light, something that needs to be turned off for people. Particularly since he didn't suggest having a "No heterosexual content" option. Now wouldn't that be an interesting game to play.

However, a friend said something to me that got me thinking. What if, instead of a "No homosexuals in my game," choice, during character creation you could choose the sexual orientation of your character. A "Bi/straight/Homosexual" type option. You can choose your name, your sex, your hair color, heck, you can choose what shape nose you have. Surely sexual orientation is as important as those features to your average role player.

If you could do this, then your companions would "know" this information, and react to you accordingly.

What do you guys think? Would this be an acceptable alternative, or is this still too stigmatizing to those in the bi/gay community?

Full Disclosure
In real life: I am a straight female
In video games: It's fantasy, so I'm a bit of a whore whether I am playing a male or female. I hit on anything with a heartbeat if it strikes my fancy. Hell, I'd hit on something without a heartbeat if the music and lighting were right.

 

[Irridium]

That... is pretty interesting actually. Sounds like it could work. Although I'm not sure if it would work with a pre-defined character, like Hawke or Shepard.

Thats why they said Shepard doesn't have any homosexual options, its because thats not who Shepard is. And why you could have romance options with a hetero woman, bi woman, bi guy, and hetero guy(although no purely homosexual guy/girl, which I find rather interesting actually) in Dragon Age Origins. In DA2 everyone was bi, which I thought was rather silly, but thats just me.

Not sure where I'm going with this, so I'll just end here. I don't think it could hurt, so yeah, I'd be for it.

 

[oplinger]

...And what? transmit the information to other party members through ESP? How would they know? They'll whip out your character sheet and confirm before they hit on you! Or you can wear a neon sign! "I AM GAY"

...All ridiculousness aside, the idea is sound, however it makes no sense when applied.

 

[Radeonx]

...All ridiculousness aside, the idea is sound, however it makes no sense when applied.

In a game such as Dragon Age where they have multiple voice actors doing multiple lines for one situation, adding/removing romance lines from them isn't that much of a stretch. It makes perfect sense from a preferential standpoint.

OT: Good idea.

 

[scnj]

I think it's an elegant solution to something that really shouldn't be a problem. I'm a straight guy and I wouldn't be upset if a male game character hit on my character*. There's always an option to refuse. It's not like I was forced into a romance with Anders.

*I will note that given the choice, I always play a female character, but I tend to romance females, depending on which romance option characters I like.

 

[oplinger]

...All ridiculousness aside, the idea is sound, however it makes no sense when applied.

In a game such as Dragon Age where they have multiple voice actors doing multiple lines for one situation, adding/removing romance lines from them isn't that much of a stretch. It makes perfect sense from a preferential standpoint.

OT: Good idea.

But how would you let your companions know without telling them? The option becomes meaningless in an immersion kind of way. You'd have to tell them you're gay, or straight, or tell them you're not interested in putting that there....or you'd be willing to give it a shot....

If they just -know- ....that's just kind of creepy, do you -smell- gay or something? How would you make it work?

 

[AlternatePFG]

In DA2 everyone was bi, which I thought was rather silly, but thats just me.

That's one of the many things that irked me in this game. What's the point of having nearly everyone romanceable no matter which gender? It creates this weird shift in the story, if Hawke is a girl Anders is straight, and the guy that you save is more of a friend. If you're a guy however, he's gay.

I didn't mind in the first game with Leliana and Zevran because it fit their characters. In this one though, it just seemed kinda lazy.

Edit: Granted, I think BioWare romances are completely unnecessary and detract from the games ever since Msss Effect. It was decent in KOTOR because it wasn't made a huge deal about, but every game since Mass Effect this has been a major thing.

 

[Wapox]

the thing with BioWare games and sexual preference is, that you can just choose the "no" option or the "yes" option when you're being led on.. it doesn't need to have a preference option, you can just "not engage in sexual conversation" so you only need to decide, when you're actually in the action, and you're being "hit on" before you choose your sexual preference. IE. you don't have to decide when you create the character. Sorry if someone has said this already.. I'm too tired to read all the other posts..

 

[Irridium]

...All ridiculousness aside, the idea is sound, however it makes no sense when applied.

In a game such as Dragon Age where they have multiple voice actors doing multiple lines for one situation, adding/removing romance lines from them isn't that much of a stretch. It makes perfect sense from a preferential standpoint.

OT: Good idea.

But how would you let your companions know without telling them? The option becomes meaningless in an immersion kind of way. You'd have to tell them you're gay, or straight, or tell them you're not interested in putting that there....or you'd be willing to give it a shot....

If they just -know- ....that's just kind of creepy, do you -smell- gay or something? How would you make it work?

How you talk and body language would be enough. Of course that would require Bioware's standard conversations to actually have decent body language/speech inflections.

But still, the game would just know. You select one option, the game plays a certain set of audio files.

And if thats still an issue, it could be done the same way as it did in Origins. Where the bi characters come on to you, and you can say "I don't swing that way". Simple.

 

[Fr]anc[is]

Hmm... on paper it sounds like an ok idea to me. It might not be necessary in games like Fallout where you pick exactly what your character says and does. But in game how would it work? The main character would have to tell his buddies at some point, and that's not much different than saying "No thanks" once.

 

[Meggiepants]

...And what? transmit the information to other party members through ESP? How would they know? They'll whip out your character sheet and confirm before they hit on you! Or you can wear a neon sign! "I AM GAY"

...All ridiculousness aside, the idea is sound, however it makes no sense when applied.

Yes, this is true. In real life you don't really know, though some people claim to be able to. Not being gay myself, I wouldn't even begin to suggest you can just know. But this is a video game, and the option would be provided more as a hook for the game developers (aka the DM) to work around. Similar to how importing your choices from DA:O to DA2 directly affects certain dialogs and actions.

Yes, it would seem awkward, but generally before I hit on someone, I feel them out a bit to see if they might be receptive. I don't outright say, "Damn dude, you are hot! Are you straight?" The whole relationship thing in all of Bioware's games is pretty simple to be honest. If I had all the resources in the world, and was making a game with romances, I'd probably not have a romance blossom until at least 10-20 dialog trees had been traversed. I mean, these people hit on you right off the bat. The companion characters are going to come off a bit awkward when they approach you this way unless the developers have a little heads up.

That... is pretty interesting actually. Sounds like it could work. Although I'm not sure if it would work with a pre-defined character, like Hawke or Shepard.

Thats why they said Shepard doesn't have any homosexual options, its because thats not who Shepard is. And why you could have romance options with a hetero woman, bi woman, bi guy, and hetero guy(although no purely homosexual guy/girl, which I find rather interesting actually) in Dragon Age Origins. In DA2 everyone was bi, which I thought was rather silly, but thats just me.

Not sure where I'm going with this, so I'll just end here. I don't think it could hurt, so yeah, I'd be for it.

Well, the idea would not so much be that people would be like, "Guy, you are so gay!" More along the lines of how they say, "You're a beautiful woman" Or "You're such a handsome man" based on what sex you choose. I'm not suggesting people would bring up your preference in casual conversation necessarily, though in DA:O, they kind of do if you are a guy and sleep around with Zevran. I don't know if they do if you play a gal and sleep around with Leliana. I should try that sometime.

What I guess I'm saying is, if the developers want to provide a role playing environment that can adapt to any sexual preference, which I think is a good idea, then this would be a way to allow our more sensitive colleagues a way to avoid being made uncomfortable by being put into situations they aren't ready for.

The way I would see it working is those characters simply wouldn't hit on you unless you initiated it. In which case your DM should come out and say, "You're breaking character! I can clearly see on your character sheet that you are a Chaotic Neutral Heterosexual!"

But really, they way I see it, if you are playing a game like DA2 - you spend years with these guys. Surely, they would have picked up on the fact that you were hetero/homo/bi based on your day to day choices by then. I mean, if you are hitting on anything that moves, hey, you're fair game to all comers.

 

[oplinger]

...All ridiculousness aside, the idea is sound, however it makes no sense when applied.

In a game such as Dragon Age where they have multiple voice actors doing multiple lines for one situation, adding/removing romance lines from them isn't that much of a stretch. It makes perfect sense from a preferential standpoint.

OT: Good idea.

But how would you let your companions know without telling them? The option becomes meaningless in an immersion kind of way. You'd have to tell them you're gay, or straight, or tell them you're not interested in putting that there....or you'd be willing to give it a shot....

If they just -know- ....that's just kind of creepy, do you -smell- gay or something? How would you make it work?

How you talk and body language would be enough. Of course that would require Bioware's standard conversations to actually have decent body language/speech inflections.

But still, the game would just know. You select one option, the game plays a certain set of audio files.

And if thats still an issue, it could be done the same way as it did in Origins. Where the bi characters come on to you, and you can say "I don't swing that way". Simple.

So you're saying being gay makes you inherently different? Do gay women walk like they have a penis? Do gay guys saunter around and talk with lisps? Bernie from GTA4 anyone?

It's just silly to have an options for it. Especially when you throw in the last bit (in bold) that's kinda like saying "it could work! but here's an easier way that's already in the game and doesn't really need us to program an option and a new set of audio files, and crazily -it doesn't make things creepy-"

 

[Jake0fTrades]

I think Bioware is playing it just right, just because a male character decides to flirt with your male character doesn't mean you have to flirt back. If it makes you uncomfortable, then you can just imagine how your main character feels and BAM--you've got immersion.

Remember, you can always just say no.

 

[Jordi]

...All ridiculousness aside, the idea is sound, however it makes no sense when applied.

In a game such as Dragon Age where they have multiple voice actors doing multiple lines for one situation, adding/removing romance lines from them isn't that much of a stretch. It makes perfect sense from a preferential standpoint.

OT: Good idea.

But how would you let your companions know without telling them? The option becomes meaningless in an immersion kind of way. You'd have to tell them you're gay, or straight, or tell them you're not interested in putting that there....or you'd be willing to give it a shot....

If they just -know- ....that's just kind of creepy, do you -smell- gay or something? How would you make it work?

Well, I think that there are a lot of guys and girls here that have never been hit on by a person of the same gender. So if you select "straight", those people will just plain not hit on you, and you wouldn't notice at all.

I don't really know how gay people usually approach each other, but it makes sense to me that they have either judged the other's sexual preference by the way they behave themselves, or that they start by asking "Are you gay?" or something to that effect. I don't see a reason why this couldn't be incorporated into the game.

 

[The Madman]

Personally I want developers like Bioware and the like to drop 'romance' entirely. Seriously, focus on making characters I genuinely enjoy spending time with and want to learn more about, then allowing players to develop realistic friendships and interaction with those characters. And only THEN, when that's done, should romance become involved. And I mean romance, not sex, romance. Giving the player the opportunity to interact with those characters on a deeper level, learning more about them as they carefully try to maintain some sort of relationship.

As it is right now I feel more insulted than offended not because there's gay stuff, but simply because I feel like I'm being pandered too.

"Hey, psst, if you pursue this dialogue you'll get a sex cutscene and an achievement! What'dya mean is it fluid and believable? Who cares, just f&%$ em already! Isn't that what all sweaty teenage boys want? You're not a teenage boy? Oh... well... this is awkward."

 

[wolfchylde]

I find it wanders sort of into 'non issue' territory, unless there's a specific REASON or BENEFIT to the character along the way. I'd prefer my characters be as non-sexual as possible in my games. I think DE-sexualizing characters unless there's a relevant NEED to do otherwise is a better solution overall.

In situations like RPG games, giving people the option is... nice... but only if you're planning on having some sort of ORGANIC romance option along the way. Forcing character to behave in ways that don't logically follow anything is just bad game design/story writing. Leave that crap to the slash-fic-ers.

And by ORGANIC I mean something that's not dropped into the game for the sake of pandering to the players, either straight, gay or whatever! To have nothing even subtly sexual going on in your interactions and then suddenly find yourself jumping into the sack (or trying to) with characters isn't organic in the slightest

 

[oplinger]

Well, I think that there are a lot of guys and girls here that have never been hit on by a person of the same gender. So if you select "straight", those people will just plain not hit on you, and you wouldn't notice at all.

I don't really know how gay people usually approach each other, but it makes sense to me that they have either judged the other's sexual preference by the way they behave themselves, or that they start by asking "Are you gay?" or something to that effect. I don't see a reason why this couldn't be incorporated into the game.

Well in my experiences of being hit on by guys, I can tell you one thing. ...They didn't feel me out for shit. >.> It happens just like everyone else, you get attracted, you become friends, one thing leads to another, you take the leap aaaaaaand rejected. game over. Try the next one...

From what I've gathered from..you know, talking to gay people, they don't walk down the street, or meet new people at wal-mart and have their gaydar beep uncontrollably. You usually have to find out through trial and error..or outright asking.

As someone who's somehow seemed gay...I really can say feeling people out doesn't work. And feeling them out may involve hitting on them anyway. ...either way the option seems to lose all meaning when you bring reality into it >_>

Unless you have a small monkey shaped memory core that holds all your thoughts and memories and gleefully dances whenever you're nearby and it tells everyone you're gay off camera. That could work I guess...

 

[Meggiepants]

Personally I want developers like Bioware and the like to drop 'romance' entirely. Seriously, focus on making characters I genuinely enjoy spending time with and want to learn more about, then allowing players to develop realistic friendships and interaction with those characters. And only THEN, when that's done, should romance become involved. And I mean romance, not sex, romance. Giving the player the opportunity to interact with those characters on a deeper level, learning more about them as they carefully try to maintain some sort of relationship.

As it is right now I feel more insulted than offended not because there's gay stuff, but simply because I feel like I'm being pandered too.

"Hey, psst, if you pursue this dialogue you'll get a sex cutscene and an achievement! What'dya mean is it fluid and believable? Who cares, just f&%$ em already! Isn't that what all sweaty teenage boys want? You're not a teenage boy? Oh... well... this is awkward."

This... is very well put. But Bioware is kind of wedded to this "Romance Option" thing since I think they are the only Western gaming company that does it. I can't think of another off the top of my head at least. I've played some Japanese games that incorporate some romance options, like the Persona series. But I suspect they will keep it because it is unique to them, and there is a very vocal bunch of gamers who really love the romance.

I would also agree, the romances are very... minimal. I am often excited by the potential to romance a character (I'm a girl, so stereotype full filled. Yay me!), only to be let down that they love me after two flirts. *looks at Thane in ME2 or Anders in DA2* DA:O did a better job making the whole relationship issue just a tad deeper, but they took 5 years to do that game, and that's as good as they got.

I would much rather have a more meaningful set of conversations than the obligatory *two digital dolls rubbing* scene. But then I'm in the minority here I think. If you do a drive by on the Bioware Social forums, then you'll see what I mean. The fangirls are pissed there is no nudity scene with the male companions... seriously.

But until they have the means to fix the romances on a whole, this was more of an idea to address what I could see as a disturbing issue for some. Even David Gaider says he would probably do it a bit differently next time. He tried to add an element of realism, in that some companions would approach Hawke before he/she approached them, and then ran into this issue. A good idea that had an unintended effect.

 

[Julianking93]

I always thought that would be a good idea.
You can have fully customizable characters in a lot of games now, so why not choose their sexual preference rather than it be chosen for you? Or, instead of just having gay or straight characters simply to appeal to everyone, let it be completely the player's choice?

Seems common sense when you think about it really. Interesting thread.
It could bring up some problems if the gay/straight thing became known through online, but other than that, seems like that should be taken note of :3