Poll: Videogames and Women

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Mr.Swiggly

The PC Master Elitist
Apr 25, 2011
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I understand that alot of female characters are really over sexulized in games. But everyone in games are beutiful amazing people.

Alot of people are saying that Miranda was way over sexulized in Mass Effect 2, with her skin tight suit which could never accually be made in real life. But then, remember Batman from Batman Arkam Asylum? He was wearing a skin tight suit that perfectally covered all of his beutiful muscles, he had a jaw that was basically a square, he was a genius, a billionare and Batman. Acual men cannot be anything like Batman, just like no women could really be like Miranda.

So what's the difference between the two? If you ask a guy they'll say that Miranda's hot. Ask a women they'll say Batman's pretty damn handsome. Both are completly unrealistic.

I don't think there's a huge deal of over sexulization of women when its the same for alot of male characters.
 

The Lunatic

Princess
Jun 3, 2010
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Mr.Swiggly said:
Alot of people are saying that Miranda was way over sexulized in Mass Effect 2, with her skin tight suit which could never accually be made in real life. But then, remember Batman from Batman Arkam Asylum? He was wearing a skin tight suit that perfectally covered all of his beutiful muscles, he had a jaw that was basically a square, he was a genius, a billionare and Batman. Acual men cannot be anything like Batman, just like no women could really be like Miranda.
I think the difference is the camera angles more than anything.

Rarely do you get a face-full of Batman's chiseled buttocks, but, you can expect such things of Miranda in Mass Effect.
 

CaptainKarma

New member
Dec 16, 2011
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Mr.Swiggly said:
I understand that alot of female characters are really over sexulized in games. But everyone in games are beutiful amazing people.

Alot of people are saying that Miranda was way over sexulized in Mass Effect 2, with her skin tight suit which could never accually be made in real life. But then, remember Batman from Batman Arkam Asylum? He was wearing a skin tight suit that perfectally covered all of his beutiful muscles, he had a jaw that was basically a square, he was a genius, a billionare and Batman. Acual men cannot be anything like Batman, just like no women could really be like Miranda.

So what's the difference between the two? If you ask a guy they'll say that Miranda's hot. Ask a women they'll say Batman's pretty damn handsome. Both are completly unrealistic.

I don't think there's a huge deal of over sexulization of women when its the same for alot of male characters.
But it's a different kind of sexualisation. Look at batman, yes he's the peak of manly perfection. Every inch of his body screams "I will kick your goddamn arse" Then look at Catwoman, every inch of her screams "havesexwithmehavesexwithme". Sexualisation is not a perfectly two way street.
I'm gonna link Dr NerdLove again, cos he has a nice summary of the different images: http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2011/11/nerds-and-male-privilege/

In fact, dood, defskyoen and co, could you do me a favour and at least skim both parts of that article? I'm honestly sick to death of you accusing me of white-knighting and misrepresenting the issue here.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

Be the Leaf
Mar 16, 2011
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Da Orky Man said:

Most women that I've met prefer Garrus for heavens sake. You know the guy who looks like a velociraptor.
You might have done better to bring Alastair from Dragon Age up but then he was written by a woman and based on Xander from Buffy.

Bioware are notoriously bad at straight female love interests (unless, apparently, they are a scaly alien). Even to the point where my male friend gets a sexy twilek slave in TOR but my female agent gets a woman to have 'girl talk' with (her words not mine). >_>

Women do get sexualised in gaming and the fact that there are men with perfect physiques? That's there to make them look cool not to be female fanservice. If anything like I said with Mass Effect most women prefer a good storyline or personality over massive muscles. Which is why Garrus kicks Jacob's arse in the popularity stakes.

Maybe a good way to look at it is I could give my little niece a picture of Batman to colour in but I wouldn't give her a picture of Ivy...In fact I think that's an excellent way to judge sexualisation whether you would show the picture to a young child or not. :/

I recommend you watch Moviebob's excellent sum up of the whole situation. He's puts it better than I ever could.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/4719-Gender-Games
 

oZode

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Nov 15, 2011
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xXxJessicaxXx said:
Da Orky Man said:
snip
If the game industry was ran by women, you can expect lots of men running around with their muscly abs showing wearing only armored gym shorts that are red. But that would be to make them look cool, right?
 

Moonlight Butterfly

Be the Leaf
Mar 16, 2011
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oZode said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
Da Orky Man said:
snip
If the game industry was ran by women, you can expect lots of men running around with their muscly abs showing wearing only armored speedos. But that would be to make them look cool, right?
Please go back and read my entire post instead of just cherry picking. I kind of explained that there :/ Also watch Moviebob's vid he covers exactly that issue.
 

oZode

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Nov 15, 2011
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xXxJessicaxXx said:
oZode said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
Da Orky Man said:
snip
If the game industry was ran by women, you can expect lots of men running around with their muscly abs showing wearing only armored speedos. But that would be to make them look cool, right?
Please go back and read my entire post instead of just cherry picking. I kind of explained that there :/ Also watch Moviebob's vid he covers exactly that issue.

And no... it wouldn't. The one character (I know of) that was written by a woman takes his shirt off in exactly one scene. (two if you take a certain route)
From what I can tell, it is more 'lack of diversity' that is the issue, and not just 'every girl looks like a prostitute' (which is most likely part of it because how uncomfortable must it be to go outside and fight monsters in the open in what is like, your underwear?).
 

Moonlight Butterfly

Be the Leaf
Mar 16, 2011
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oZode said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
oZode said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
Da Orky Man said:
snip
If the game industry was ran by women, you can expect lots of men running around with their muscly abs showing wearing only armored speedos. But that would be to make them look cool, right?
Please go back and read my entire post instead of just cherry picking. I kind of explained that there :/ Also watch Moviebob's vid he covers exactly that issue.

And no... it wouldn't. The one character (I know of) that was written by a woman takes his shirt off in exactly one scene. (two if you take a certain route)
From what I can tell, it is more 'lack of diversity' that is the issue, and not just 'every girl looks like a prostitute' (which is most likely part of it because how uncomfortable must it be to go outside and fight monsters in the open in what is like, your underwear?).
It's not that they are sexy its the fact that they being sexy is the only thing about them. That's what they are there for, as part of the scenery.

They have got to the point where they are only showing Ivy's boobs on the Soul Calibur poster not even her face...:<

A female character can look sexy AND have a decent personality and storyline and she doesn't have to be twisted into a pandering pose to look pleasant.
 

oZode

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Nov 15, 2011
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xXxJessicaxXx said:
oZode said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
oZode said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
Da Orky Man said:
snip
If the game industry was ran by women, you can expect lots of men running around with their muscly abs showing wearing only armored speedos. But that would be to make them look cool, right?
Please go back and read my entire post instead of just cherry picking. I kind of explained that there :/ Also watch Moviebob's vid he covers exactly that issue.

And no... it wouldn't. The one character (I know of) that was written by a woman takes his shirt off in exactly one scene. (two if you take a certain route)
From what I can tell, it is more 'lack of diversity' that is the issue, and not just 'every girl looks like a prostitute' (which is most likely part of it because how uncomfortable must it be to go outside and fight monsters in the open in what is like, your underwear?).
It's not that they are sexy its the fact that they being sexy is the only thing about them. That's what they are there for, as part of the scenery.

They have got to the point where they are only showing Ivy's boobs on the Soul Calibur poster not even her face...:<

A female character can look sexy AND have a decent personality and storyline and she doesn't have to be twisted into a pandering pose to look pleasant.
I should note I am thinking from a MMO perspective (you are the character), but story wise I often find myself not caring much about the stripper character because you can have a in-depth story about them, but to me first impressions mean a lot.

For example in batman I am aware of Harley's back story (former psychologist who falls in love with the joker, which ends up in a quite abusive relationship), but if I initially saw her in the way depicted in arkham city instead of the animated series, I wouldn't think that much of her.

Don't try to make sense of that, it is a bizarre quirk of mine.

I don't care too much for Soul Caliber because I don't really play those types of games (I like first person games), so I have nothing to really say there.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

Be the Leaf
Mar 16, 2011
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oZode said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
oZode said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
oZode said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
Da Orky Man said:
snip
If the game industry was ran by women, you can expect lots of men running around with their muscly abs showing wearing only armored speedos. But that would be to make them look cool, right?
Please go back and read my entire post instead of just cherry picking. I kind of explained that there :/ Also watch Moviebob's vid he covers exactly that issue.

And no... it wouldn't. The one character (I know of) that was written by a woman takes his shirt off in exactly one scene. (two if you take a certain route)
From what I can tell, it is more 'lack of diversity' that is the issue, and not just 'every girl looks like a prostitute' (which is most likely part of it because how uncomfortable must it be to go outside and fight monsters in the open in what is like, your underwear?).
It's not that they are sexy its the fact that they being sexy is the only thing about them. That's what they are there for, as part of the scenery.

They have got to the point where they are only showing Ivy's boobs on the Soul Calibur poster not even her face...:<

A female character can look sexy AND have a decent personality and storyline and she doesn't have to be twisted into a pandering pose to look pleasant.
I should note I am thinking from a MMO perspective (you are the character), but story wise I often find myself not caring much about the stripper character because you can have a in-depth story about them, but to me first impressions mean a lot.

For example in batman I am aware of Harley's back story (former psychologist who falls in love with the joker, which ends up in a quite abusive relationship), but if I initially saw her in the way depicted in arkham city instead of the animated series, I wouldn't think that much of her.

Don't try to make sense of that, it is a bizarre quirk of mine.

I don't care too much for Soul Caliber because I don't really play those types of games (I like first person games), so I have nothing to really say there.
Yeah I see what you mean I think that's why I don't think of Arkham City as sexist. I enjoy Batman comics and recently Suicide Squad and I know what the female characters are meant to be like. I know what their stories are and I know that Catwoman owns her sexuality rather than does it to pander to men.

It's when a female character doesn't have that depth and doesn't gain it that it's the problem.
 

bojackx

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Nov 14, 2010
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I just went on the link, and I don't see that kind of female imagery to be what causes all the crap that girl gamers get. I'd rather have my female characters packing major cleavage than a buff heavily build any day, but when I find myself online and there's a girl gamer, I don't resort to sexual innuendos or abuse of any kind.

The way women are represented in video games doesn't cause people to act that way, those people are just dicks.
 

Farseer Lolotea

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Mar 11, 2010
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Iron Lightning said:
I expect that a few of your guildmates play DPS though, and I say that when they do that they are expressing their masculine side. Nearly everyone is a mixture of masculine and feminine qualities.[...]

Of course you would, because in my hypothetical example the complainer would be exhibiting the feminine qualities of sensitivity and anti-competitiveness which is inappropriate in such a context.
I still don't buy all of this gender-essentialist business.

That's definitely believable. However, I should state that we ought not care so much about the sexist assholes who happen to play videogames. This problem seems to me to be mostly unsolvable. You can't fix stupid.
Report the stupid, the stupid gets in trouble with the company. Fixed.

That's my solution, anyway.

defskyoen said:
There's always Cinematic Mod and a "few others" to fix that mistake, it's still the same character after that mind you, saying and doing the same things, but apparently because it has *boobs* now it's a bad thing.[snip]

Cause some of you people won't be satisfied till every single female character in video games resembles some sort of antropomorphic primordial ooze instead of an attractive human being, cause it makes it so so *wrong* if it does.

Wonder how many of the women and men who argue against it here would dress sexy and form-fitting if they could actually pull it off instead of argueing about it on some website xD
I love how people explain the issue over and over again...and someone still always keeps coming back and saying "you're just jealous that you don't look like that" as if that were an argument.

I'm with j-e-f-f-e-r-s on this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.337678-Poll-Videogames-and-Women?page=7#13670676]: Anyone who resorts to that tactic should be required to put up pictures of himself in a Speedo.

That_Sneaky_Camper said:
Thank you. Finally someone that gets it.

The issue isn't that women are beautiful. There should never be a problem with a character being physically beautiful. No one ever complains about a man being physically attractive, but they would if that was all that there is to that man's character such as if he were a smug pretty boy. The same thing applies here, women that are beautiful should not have that beauty be the sole focus of their character with nothing else to flesh out their character.

There is nothing inherently wrong with games that focus on that beauty aspect, a game should just try to be upfront with you on whether or not it will be full on fan-service or if a serviceable plot will surround the character. There is certainly room for fan service alongside meaningful character development, it has been done before.
Aside from the fact that that guy didn't really get it at all? Beauty has nothing to do with the argument.

Unless, of course, one actually believes that a female character has to be in a bikini and putting on a show for the camera to be attractive.
 

Gamergeek25

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Mar 29, 2011
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xXxJessicaxXx said:
Da Orky Man said:

Most women that I've met prefer Garrus for heavens sake. You know the guy who looks like a velociraptor.
You might have done better to bring Alastair from Dragon Age up but then he was written by a woman and based on Xander from Buffy.

Bioware are notoriously bad at straight female love interests (unless, apparently, they are a scaly alien). Even to the point where my male friend gets a sexy twilek slave in TOR but my female agent gets a woman to have 'girl talk' with (her words not mine). >_>

Women do get sexualised in gaming and the fact that there are men with perfect physiques? That's there to make them look cool not to be female fanservice. If anything like I said with Mass Effect most women prefer a good storyline or personality over massive muscles. Which is why Garrus kicks Jacob's arse in the popularity stakes.

Maybe a good way to look at it is I could give my little niece a picture of Batman to colour in but I wouldn't give her a picture of Ivy...In fact I think that's an excellent way to judge sexualisation whether you would show the picture to a young child or not. :/

I recommend you watch Moviebob's excellent sum up of the whole situation. He's puts it better than I ever could.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/4719-Gender-Games

In defense of Vette have you seen her personality? She is a bit a strong developed character, and by the way never in game wise see her in revealing clothing. I have a level 32 Sith warrior so i spent a lot of time with her, and canb say the slave title is only a title and rank as all aliens are 90% slaves in the empire not just the females. this is the video of vette http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_tUDGJYewo spoilers warning, spoiler warning
 

Mr.Swiggly

The PC Master Elitist
Apr 25, 2011
32
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CaptainKarma said:
Mr.Swiggly said:
I understand that alot of female characters are really over sexulized in games. But everyone in games are beutiful amazing people.

Alot of people are saying that Miranda was way over sexulized in Mass Effect 2, with her skin tight suit which could never accually be made in real life. But then, remember Batman from Batman Arkam Asylum? He was wearing a skin tight suit that perfectally covered all of his beutiful muscles, he had a jaw that was basically a square, he was a genius, a billionare and Batman. Acual men cannot be anything like Batman, just like no women could really be like Miranda.

So what's the difference between the two? If you ask a guy they'll say that Miranda's hot. Ask a women they'll say Batman's pretty damn handsome. Both are completly unrealistic.

I don't think there's a huge deal of over sexulization of women when its the same for alot of male characters.
But it's a different kind of sexualisation. Look at batman, yes he's the peak of manly perfection. Every inch of his body screams "I will kick your goddamn arse" Then look at Catwoman, every inch of her screams "havesexwithmehavesexwithme". Sexualisation is not a perfectly two way street.
I'm gonna link Dr NerdLove again, cos he has a nice summary of the different images: http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2011/11/nerds-and-male-privilege/
I agree that catwoman is very over sexualized in the game, she was also like that in the comic books, its not like her original character was completly different to her character in the game.
 

CaptainKarma

New member
Dec 16, 2011
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Mr.Swiggly said:
CaptainKarma said:
Mr.Swiggly said:
I understand that alot of female characters are really over sexulized in games. But everyone in games are beutiful amazing people.

Alot of people are saying that Miranda was way over sexulized in Mass Effect 2, with her skin tight suit which could never accually be made in real life. But then, remember Batman from Batman Arkam Asylum? He was wearing a skin tight suit that perfectally covered all of his beutiful muscles, he had a jaw that was basically a square, he was a genius, a billionare and Batman. Acual men cannot be anything like Batman, just like no women could really be like Miranda.

So what's the difference between the two? If you ask a guy they'll say that Miranda's hot. Ask a women they'll say Batman's pretty damn handsome. Both are completly unrealistic.

I don't think there's a huge deal of over sexulization of women when its the same for alot of male characters.
But it's a different kind of sexualisation. Look at batman, yes he's the peak of manly perfection. Every inch of his body screams "I will kick your goddamn arse" Then look at Catwoman, every inch of her screams "havesexwithmehavesexwithme". Sexualisation is not a perfectly two way street.
I'm gonna link Dr NerdLove again, cos he has a nice summary of the different images: http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2011/11/nerds-and-male-privilege/
I agree that catwoman is very over sexualized in the game, she was also like that in the comic books, its not like her original character was completly different to her character in the game.
So she's a bad character in every medium. Why do you say this like its justification?
 

Moonlight Butterfly

Be the Leaf
Mar 16, 2011
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Ethan Isaacs said:
Oh I think you misunderstand I was kind of complaining that my friend gets a member of the opposite sex while I don't, rather than Vette's personality or anything. She seems okay to me lol.
 

Gamergeek25

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Mar 29, 2011
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xXxJessicaxXx said:
Ethan Isaacs said:
Oh I think you misunderstand I was kind of complaining that my friend gets a member of the opposite sex while I don't, rather than Vette's personality or anything. She seems okay to me lol.
actually all classes get female and male companions. Just at differant varing points in story.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

Be the Leaf
Mar 16, 2011
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CaptainKarma said:
Mr.Swiggly said:
CaptainKarma said:
Mr.Swiggly said:
I understand that alot of female characters are really over sexulized in games. But everyone in games are beutiful amazing people.

Alot of people are saying that Miranda was way over sexulized in Mass Effect 2, with her skin tight suit which could never accually be made in real life. But then, remember Batman from Batman Arkam Asylum? He was wearing a skin tight suit that perfectally covered all of his beutiful muscles, he had a jaw that was basically a square, he was a genius, a billionare and Batman. Acual men cannot be anything like Batman, just like no women could really be like Miranda.

So what's the difference between the two? If you ask a guy they'll say that Miranda's hot. Ask a women they'll say Batman's pretty damn handsome. Both are completly unrealistic.

I don't think there's a huge deal of over sexulization of women when its the same for alot of male characters.
But it's a different kind of sexualisation. Look at batman, yes he's the peak of manly perfection. Every inch of his body screams "I will kick your goddamn arse" Then look at Catwoman, every inch of her screams "havesexwithmehavesexwithme". Sexualisation is not a perfectly two way street.
I'm gonna link Dr NerdLove again, cos he has a nice summary of the different images: http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2011/11/nerds-and-male-privilege/
I agree that catwoman is very over sexualized in the game, she was also like that in the comic books, its not like her original character was completly different to her character in the game.
So she's a bad character in every medium. Why do you say this like its justification?
I actually don't have a problem with catwoman she pretty much owns her sexuality and it suits her personality, Similar to Isabella in Dragon Age 2. Your point is correct however I just think you used a bad example. Poison Ivy's portrayal is kind of terrible she looks like she isn't wearing any pants o_O. Whereas in the comics, even in the Long Halloween she is quite covered up with plenty of ivy and what appeared to be an ivy swimsuit type affair. :p I'm happy with Harley's outfit it's kind of an improvment on the nurse one which just wasn't her at all. She's wearing more than she is in Suicide Squad at least :p

I would have said someone like Mai Shiranui who, as Moviebob points out, reveals nothing about her character but plenty about her cup size.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

Be the Leaf
Mar 16, 2011
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Ethan Isaacs said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
Ethan Isaacs said:
Oh I think you misunderstand I was kind of complaining that my friend gets a member of the opposite sex while I don't, rather than Vette's personality or anything. She seems okay to me lol.
actually all classes get female and male companions. Just at differant varing points in story.
Ah okay, that's me for jumping the gun then, sorry :p