Poll: Was the response to Kobe Bryant's use of the word "******" appropriate?

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Daveman

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Jan 8, 2009
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This just seems retarded. People who are born out of wedlock don't take specific offence to the use of the word bastard. Same fucking thing. He should indeed be fined for swearing, because it's on TV and kids could be watching but to think this constitutes homophobia is just hilariously ignorant. What's even worse is they are being deliberately ignorant to further their agenda.

There are some battles to be made to confront homophobia but this isn't one of them.
 

DevilWolf47

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Nov 29, 2010
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Someone shouted something profane when pissed off at a ref. Fuck-a-doodle-doo. Saying ****** is hardly conclusive proof of homophobic ideals. This is another case of hysterical morons making too much a big a deal of the use of a word while ignoring the context.
...actually it may just be people taking advantage of the confusion around the slip-up to aid their agenda. Can't ignore that possibility.
 

The Gnome King

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Mar 27, 2011
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Spot1990 said:
*I only see what I want to see*
http://books.google.com/books?id=xJZf1x1KLfUC&pg=PA106&lpg=PA106&dq=source+word+fagot+burning+gays&source=bl&ots=1dEZf84FgJ&sig=tHxeGvY4mEUReAzJz-aDwlQOqz4&hl=en&ei=0iCoTbPrJ8Wgtgf99aneBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDMQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Friend, look. This was THE FIRST TWO PARAGRAPHS from the first link:

****** -

The source of the term ****** as a negative word for homosexual men may come from the days when the law called for such people to be burned at the stake. The word fagot was commonly used to refer to a bundle of sticks; one would throw the fagot on the fire.

The practice of burning homosexual men and women to death may also be the source of the expressions a flaming ****** or a flamer.


I can't make your eyes see or your brain understand, so I'm just going to have to leave this as it is.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, OK? If you feel the need to have the last word, please, respond - I'm done with you. Maturity will either help you realize some things, or it won't; and I'm not the man who's going to teach you.

If you feel like you need to use the word to "desensitize" people to it, go right ahead with yourself. I hope you never get hurt or have your career harmed by using it in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Regards.
 

Bobbity

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Mar 17, 2010
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If these groups are trying to change the perception of the word, then having a high level athlete casually toss them out in public probably isn't helping their case. The sad thing is that now, to the general public, this makes them look like oversensitive loons, when all they're doing is trying to get their rather important point out - that this word should not be used as an insult.
 
Aug 25, 2009
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The 'retard' argument makes more sense in America. If you used the word retard in Britain in a derogatory sense you'd catch a lot of flak for it.

And yes, he used a derogatory term, and even though he may claim 'he didn't mean it the way it sounds' he most likely did.

I know most people don't think much of the show, but Glee had one moment that made it really stand out for me when one of the characters talk about being gay, specifically, when another character uses the word 'faggy.'

?You use the n-word? How about retard? I know what you meant, you think I didn?t use that word when I was your age? Some kid gets clocked in practice we tell him to shut up stop being such a fag. We meant it exactly the way you meant it. That being gay is wrong, and it?s some kind of punishable offence.'

So yeah, the word hasn't lost its meaning, the people who use the word on a regular basis are just trying to cover up that the real reason they use it is because accusing someone of potentially being homosexual is still an insult because of some sort of perceived 'wrongness' on the part of society towards homosexuality.

He was very much in the wrong
 

Om Nom Nom

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Feb 13, 2010
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"Eymn****."
"Eymc*****."

Common greeting exchange with a black friend. I hope humanity gets out of this phase of "ONO you said a bad word, I'm telling!!" sooner rather than later. It's getting a bit stupid.

E: Star'd out since I'm sure someone with overly delicate eyes would report the post... :|
 

PunkRex

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Feb 19, 2010
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Trolldor said:
Red Right Hand said:
Trolldor said:
It is a gay slur and always will be - that's the intent of using it as an insult, but the outrage is obviously overblown.
It's just a word, and rage produces rage.
****** [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_%28unit%29]
You tried, you failed.
When you think about it guy, he didnt.

Im not going to just quote every anti-PC comedian or Southpark (although I do love me some Southpark) but that word really doesnt address gay people on the whole any more.

I understand if a gay person whos been through predjudice before gets upset when the word is said though. To be honest I think they were in the right here as its on TV and rude, abusive language like that should not just be spewed out "willy nilly". Still I also dont like the fact that some people just brush the word aside when other racist words make head line news, you know when the user actually means it.

I dont know, funny how im starting to sound like that other Southpark episode "Chef goes Nanners".
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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You have the right to hate whomever you want and express that hatred, that's part of being free. Surpress that kind of thing and it will just make problems worse. I think a lot of left wingers don't "get" that. The last thing we need is for "Fag" to become the same as the "N" word on general principle.

I think the NBA is way out of line for this, and if there is some way to sue them for even making this attempt, it should probably happen. You might not LIKE what happened here, but freedom of speech is far more important than the moral comfort zone of left wingers. Freedom of speech is *NOT* just the freedom of people to say things you like or agree with. This is one of the reasons why I have such a hard time saying that I think things that I don't care for should be banned even when they are far more disruptive than this. Good examples of this would be the whole "playable Taliban" fiasco, even after they were renamed, and the upcoming "Juarez" game with it's real life gang propaganda, and of course that lovely "Alien Jihad" game. Despite "only" being video games, I think all of those things are a *FAR* bigger deal than some trash talking.

I'll also go so far as to say that if you want to get technical, the term "Homophobe" and similar should also be banned if your going to ban the term "******" for all intents and purposes. After all the term implies you have an irrational fear of gay people simply because they are differant, and carries a negative connotation for the person who would believe such a thing, just as calling someone a Fag implies like they other guys and has a negative connotation attached to it. The sole differance of course being that one term is used by left wingers as a political tool for their agenda, and the other term is employed by people who simply don't like gays (specifically gay men, there are other terms for Lesbians on the occasions when it comes up).

Once you start saying free speech is limited and certain things are not protected, then you lose free speech. The whole point is to prevent one paticular belief structure, whether oppressive or "benevolent" from being able to control what anyone else says or thinks.

Now, where free speech would not be protected is if Kobe had hopped up on a Soap Box and started encouraging active violence and criminal activitiy on the spot. If he was trying to organize a lynch mob, then there would be an issue.

The gray area actually involved here is not that what he said isn't protected, he can't be arrested for it, or fined by the goverment. It's that this protection doesn't apply to private organizations, businesses, and property. Effectively giving groups like the NBA power in excess of the goverment here, which I don't think was intended since groups like this were never considered. Just as the control of speech on "private" websites, or private groups entirely controlling the mass media (and the role it would play) were also not considered. This becomes a huge issue above and beyond so called "hate speech", which I won't get into, since that control can be used for a lot of things.

Overall, in this paticular case I do *NOT* think the NBA should be able to engage in activity like this, nor should the owner of the stadium where the game was played given that it's open to the public. This however becomes a far more complex arguement since what was actually said in THIS case is irrelevent.

Right now I think the snowball effect of well intentioned left wingers in banning "hate speech" one way or another is one of the greatest threats we're currently facing. It's a differant kind of threat from some facist regime trying to quash criticism, but winds up going to the same place.

My opinion on gays aside (I'm anti-gay men), to put things into a context I'd support, let's say we DID go out and ban this upcoming "Call Of Juarez" game, which I'd argue by spreading gang propaganda is similar to rallying a "lynch mob". The differance between this and other gang games (and an important one) is that it uses the real world, as opposed to an over-the top setting full of fictional criminals Once you ban that though, it opens the door for people to sit down and try and ban anything they feel is disruptive to society. Pick the right issues and someone can be seen as some kind of bigot for saying that something isn't as bad as say the gang violence issue or whatever. Then that ruling is used to springboard onto others, and next thing you know we can't have games that are offensive to anyone, all beacause we didn't want to glorify ongoing border drug wars and the criminals involved. There are other threats on free speech that come from other directions, but this is a big one.

While I've occasionally had to reconsider my position, I tend to wind up coming back to the same place. Right now the *only* exception to free speech should be in times of national emergency/crisis (ie wars, super-large scale disasters, etc...) and of course in matters of national security. Basically, I'm against things like what "Wikileaks" did, which was to leak classified diplomatic observations/documents and such, which can undermine entire societies and even the global community. I understand their principles (even if I don't care for the agenda they seem to support) but things like national security represent the sole exception to free speech and free information. What they leaked doesn't even count as some kind of bizzare violation of that goverment "Privlege" either. You might not like their conclusions, but when we send diplomatic analysts to tell the goverment what they think, it's not always going to be politically correct, and that's the point. What's more this kind of thing IS an intentional rat fight, and by leaking info on one side your doing damage to them. I actually think Wikileaks was treated with relative kid gloves under the circumstances to be honest.
 

PunkRex

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Feb 19, 2010
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MelasZepheos said:
The 'retard' argument makes more sense in America. If you used the word retard in Britain in a derogatory sense you'd catch a lot of flak for it.

And yes, he used a derogatory term, and even though he may claim 'he didn't mean it the way it sounds' he most likely did.

I know most people don't think much of the show, but Glee had one moment that made it really stand out for me when one of the characters talk about being gay, specifically, when another character uses the word 'faggy.'

?You use the n-word? How about retard? I know what you meant, you think I didn?t use that word when I was your age? Some kid gets clocked in practice we tell him to shut up stop being such a fag. We meant it exactly the way you meant it. That being gay is wrong, and it?s some kind of punishable offence.'

So yeah, the word hasn't lost its meaning, the people who use the word on a regular basis are just trying to cover up that the real reason they use it is because accusing someone of potentially being homosexual is still an insult because of some sort of perceived 'wrongness' on the part of society towards homosexuality.

He was very much in the wrong
I dont know if I can completely agree though guy. I live in London and use the word retard sometimes. I dont mean anything against actual retarded people, its just another word where im from. To be honest I dont even relate it to people with mental health problems as if I wanted to address someone like that in a condesending manner... well id just be a dick head.

To be honest when I think about it its not a very nice word to use and ****** seems like a more so version which isnt fair in my oppion, why do people explode when ****** is used but seem to just brush it aside when retard is used. Then of course theres the N word which is just complely off limits. The world we live in is really unfair some times, being born with something that makes you different can be really unfair, my brothers sister (its weird, lets just say my dad got around) just recently came out as a Lesbian and although weve always been accepting of gays and lesbians (seriously her dads a london cabie and he was so un-bothered it made me rofl and we kind of already knew... the signs were there) she was still really upset because she felt weird, im glad to say shes over it now and happily moved in with her girlfriend.

However why do we lynch someone for a word and then forgive a scum bag like Michael Vick, hypocrisy like this fills me with rage.

In my oppion they were in the right when they fined him, not because he used the word but because he used it on TV. Any abusive language should not be aloud but a public flogging is to much I think.
 

triggrhappy94

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Apr 24, 2010
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Well he was upset, and it did seem like it slipped out.
If he really doesn't have a problem with gay people, and is legitamently sorry, then let him apologize and move on.

EDIT:
****** doesn't always have to be used to referr to homosexuals. The meanings of words change.
Also, why do people consider the word "gay" an insault. So you're offended to be accosiated with a proud group of people?

As for the fine, I think it comes down to freedom of speech. You don't have to like what he says, but you have to let him say it. Let his PR pay the price, but don't fine him

EDIT:

Phlakes said:
They should fine all the 12 year olds on Xbox Live who yell it all the time.
YES! ^Somebody do that^