Putting someone in a coma to cut off their hand, for long enough they feel no pain and don't remember, doesn't make it right.Sober Thal said:
Poll: What do you think about circumcision?
- Thread starter Lev The Red
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But why get it done at all?Sober Thal said:
By that rational it's ok to remove their ears, fingers and toes because they won't remember that either. You're saying you think it's ok to do terrible things as long as the victim doesn't remember the event. Do you realise this is what you're saying? No other justification or motivation beyond "they won't remember".
That was my question "If you've heard it to be so horrible, why would you want to do it at all?"
Is it such a hard question to answer?
EDIT: It seems you don't even have a reason. Great.
i'm having trouble finding a comment that says anything about how much circumcision lowers your chance of contracting STI's. yes, i just said that. it has been proven that you are up to 60% less likely to contract HIV if you have been circumcised. it's not really as horrific as people make it out to be, in fact, people should be much more aware of how much good being circumcised can do.
No offense to you sir and I know you mean well.Lev The Red said:
But you just opened up one of the biggest cans of Worms since Vegetarians vs Omnivores.
Shit already got too real for me and seeing as how I voted I'll kindly take my opinions to a place where I won't be verbally castigated for having a view that people don't agree with.
My best regards to you, kind sir/madam and I hope you don't get a headache for this controversial subject
Of course, unless you're worried about your infant having sex, this isn't a good reason to circumcise a baby. If an adult wants to do it to himself for that reason, though, then that's cool. Probably be easier to just practice safe sex, but it's their choice.poodlenoodles said:
considering that i've seen several uncles and grandfathers have to go through getting it removed later in life for medical reasons, i say parents should do it for the kids when they're babies so that they don't have to go through weeks of rehab if there are complications later. my parents did it for my younger brother because of all the family history of complications and i don't think he cares one way or the other. besides, your son will thank you later because (myself included) every girl i know thinks circumsized is more attractive and most studies agree that sex and stimulation feel better to circumsized men than to uncircumsized ones.
I don't understand what's difficult, let alone rage-worthy, about this. It sounds really horrible and disgusting not to mention cruel, but it actually isn't any of those things. There's not that big of a difference having it on or off, but most hospitals in my country do it standard, so that it doesn't become a health issue later in life. If not, plenty of parents will have it done anyway for religious reasons.
I sort of remember it (How old was I? I must remember to ask). Just getting knocked out with drugs, going into a room and then something was different down there. Done and done.
I sort of remember it (How old was I? I must remember to ask). Just getting knocked out with drugs, going into a room and then something was different down there. Done and done.
I could not vote because my choice isn't there. Mine is that the only justification for performing a circumcision on an infant that should work is an actual medical one. You shouldn't be having medically unnecessary procedures performed on your child, end of story.
Here are a few justifications that shouldn't work (with why they don't work):
1) "It's a person's religious right to do so." No it isn't. Your right to practice your religion is restricted at the point where you physically injure people without their consent.
2) "It's traditional/ it's popular". (Rolled them together because they have the same counterpoint) Other people doing something, whether currently or millenia ago does not make it right to do it. And holding onto traditions just because they are traditions is some circular logic.
3) "It makes the penis easier to clean". Slightly easier, I suppose. This might have once been useful cleanliness-wise when people were living in the desert and baths were few and far between, but now it is made obsolete by the regular use of soap and water.
4) "He won't remember it if it's performed when he's a baby". The victim having no recollection of pain inflicted upon them does not justify inflicting pain upon them.
And this is just asking a favor: Can people that are against circumcision, please (please) avoid comparing it to FGM. They are apples and oranges (while both bad, one is way, way worse than the other)
Here are a few justifications that shouldn't work (with why they don't work):
1) "It's a person's religious right to do so." No it isn't. Your right to practice your religion is restricted at the point where you physically injure people without their consent.
2) "It's traditional/ it's popular". (Rolled them together because they have the same counterpoint) Other people doing something, whether currently or millenia ago does not make it right to do it. And holding onto traditions just because they are traditions is some circular logic.
3) "It makes the penis easier to clean". Slightly easier, I suppose. This might have once been useful cleanliness-wise when people were living in the desert and baths were few and far between, but now it is made obsolete by the regular use of soap and water.
4) "He won't remember it if it's performed when he's a baby". The victim having no recollection of pain inflicted upon them does not justify inflicting pain upon them.
And this is just asking a favor: Can people that are against circumcision, please (please) avoid comparing it to FGM. They are apples and oranges (while both bad, one is way, way worse than the other)
figure i'd toss my two cents in here don't think anyone will bother reading it on page 15 or whatever, but I don't like the fact that i'm circumcised. Now i have weighed this back and forth in my head for something like 8 years now, wanting to undo it and then not and so on. I'm not happy that i am circumcised but with all the research i have done on it. I'd say that i'd like to undo it but its more like wanting to have had it been my choice. I never really feel people should make life choices for others, its not your call, unless someone is gonna die its not really your call, that's just my thought. Has to be my live and let live ideas.
My boyfriend is not circumcised and he would have rathered it the other way. So it really a personal choice not a parents choice.
As far as religious reasons, i'm gonna avoid that because its like mine field.
So i know a lot about this topic and i can say that its really a choice for you not others, you can "undo" it but its never really the same as what you were born with. That's the reason I'm both angry about this topic and sad.
My boyfriend is not circumcised and he would have rathered it the other way. So it really a personal choice not a parents choice.
As far as religious reasons, i'm gonna avoid that because its like mine field.
So i know a lot about this topic and i can say that its really a choice for you not others, you can "undo" it but its never really the same as what you were born with. That's the reason I'm both angry about this topic and sad.
That really all depends on what degree of FGM is being discussed. The 'least terrible' form of FGM would involve removing the clitoral hood, which is pretty much the same as removing the foreskin.xdom125x said:
Of course, comparing other forms of FGM that go beyond that to circumcision would indeed be like comparing apples and oranges.
Your attempt at an appeal to "manliness" is cute.Lawllerskater said:
By your narrow-minded worldview, most males outside of the US, Africa and certain Middle Eastern countries are limp-wristed flower-pickers. Brilliant generalisation.
Additionally, if you were a little less ignorant, you'd know that it takes less than half minute a day to clean properly down there. The only way you could have anything build up is if you go without bathing for over ten days, in which case, I'm pretty sure dirty genitals will be the least of your worries unless you're living in a cave far from civilisation.
You sound nearly as bad as the post I'm quoting below, only that post was actually satirical in nature.
dead.juice said:
If you're still open to comment, I'd like to hear. Seriously.Sober Thal said:
Circumcision is rare in England - I've known of two guys I've ever met who are circumcised, one for medical reasons, one for tradition, so it's a bit of a curious subject for me. Assuming you are not of a religion which advocates circumcision at birth, what are the reasons for it? So far I've just heard "because everyone does it" but I'd like to think there are more reasons than that.
Again, if you don't mind me asking.
60%? 60% is VERY LOW, no vaccine or medication could claim being a protection or provide immunity with that number.poodlenoodles said:
1. would you say to your son that he can have an unprotected casual sex bacause he's circumcised?
2. do circumcised men stil use condoms as they provide incomparable protection? if yes why circumcision?
3. it is VERY HARD to get HIV through sex, having typical vaginal unprotected intercourse with HIV-positive partner chances to get infected are LOW, 1 in 2000 for man, 1 in 1000 for woman, chances rise for backdoor sex
4. people in Europe do not circumcise and we have from 3 to 10 times lower HIV/AIDS rates, I don't see circumcison working as HIV prevention in the US, but oh wait.... some study in Africa proved it.
When practicing safe sex, chances to get HIV are extremely low, saying that circumcision lowers the risk is just funny to me, it's an obvious and desperate attempt to find a reason to continue this practice.
How come after so many years, there is still no valid, undeniable, bold reason to do this to all babies?
Answer is very simple. No matter how many desperate studies wwill be conducted, no matter how many diseases will be found as preventable with circumcision, the numbers WILL ALWAYS STAY LOW, because you can NEVER debunk human body design as it's perfect.
I'm quite happy with mine, I had that thing where the foreskin never retracted properly and I got infections all the time, so I got cut at like 7 and barely remember anything of it, and I guess it all feels pretty good down there, but I don't feel any great reason to do it to my sons if I had one unless for same reasons of me, so I am extremely apathetic. I do find it annoying though when (mostly uncut but a few cut) males tend to shout a lot about mutilation and what not and speak in a way that I feel like tries to make those that are circumcised feel like they've been abused and deliberately hurt by their parents when most parents who do so do it with the best of intentions (just may not be aware of the negatives that may or may not come with it.
Two simple reasons.Racistman3d said:
1) I'm a man, and I know exactly how valuable the penis is on the male anatomy. I wouldn't wish for any man to be unable to enjoy having a penis.
2) Children deserves the same rights that you would give an adult or a girl. You wouldn't hold an adult down and cut off part of his genitals. You wouldn't hold a girl down and cut off parts of her genitals. Why is it that it's alright to do it on boys? It does not matter what you say, it's a part of their body and you have no right to carve it out of their body or take it away from them.
It's theft, immoral, inhuman and disrespectful. It borders on sexual abuse or rape to be honest.
If I told you that I just grabbed my 10 year old son, pulled his pants down, grabbed his penis and started carving into it with a knife, would you think I'm normal? Would you say it's wrong to do that?
Yes you most definitely would.
It doesn't matter if I'm a trained professional who have done it a thousand times before, it still sounds wrong in your ears.
That's how it is for us. The child is unable to defend itself and has it's body violated because you think a part of his body is useless, ugly or strange. Notice how I said HIS body, and not yours. Because it's his, and you have no right to put a knife to his body.
And yes, because of stupid people who won't stop circumsizing their children, it's still alright to circumsize boys all the way up to the age of 10 if you want to. YOU people make this happen, stop it already. Enough boys have been violated and mistreated.