Poll: What is the biggest problem with the Mass Effect 3 ending? (spoilers!)

[mattttherman3]

1. That shepard can only live in renegade ending which would be a betrayal of legions sacrifice and would kill edi and it aslo doesnt make sense because sheperd would die because of his cybetnetic implants all over his body.

2. Normandy abandons earth?! I don't think so, joker is no coward, there is also no way your squad could be on there...

3. Explain the logic of how shepard adding his energy to the crucible somehow enhances it's power to merge organic and synthetic life?

 

[SajuukKhar]

1. That shepard can only live in renegade ending which would be a betrayal of legions sacrifice and would kill edi and it aslo doesnt make sense because sheperd would die because of his cybetnetic implants all over his body.

2. Normandy abandons earth?! I don't think so, joker is no coward, there is also no way your squad could be on there...

3. Explain the logic of how shepard adding his energy to the crucible somehow enhances it's power to merge organic and synthetic life?

1. True Renegade players would have sold legion in ME2. Also his "implants" are mostly metal braces that hold his body together, Shepard really isn't that synthetic.

2. I doubt he was abandoning earth, they say near the end that the Normandy was going to rejoin the sword team, aka the space team, explaining why he was in space, secondly he very well may have been close enough to were Shepard was to be able to pick up the teams mates left behind, thirdly when the citadel shot its giant beam he was most likely between it and the mass relays and tries to escape it by jumping into the mass relay not knowing it could follow him there.

3. It isn't so much that shep enhances the power of the crucible, more then the catalyst wasn't able to enact the choices himself because of programming limitations.

 

[Uszi]

People are pissed because with the last 20-30 minutes of game play, they decide they're totally going to change the tone of the whole 3 game series.

I don't think you can have a fan-service, feel good science fiction game that ends on such a bitter, incomplete note.... Not without alienating people.

Yes because destroying the devices the badguys used to technological and socially enslave all races in the galaxy thus freeing them to build a future of their own, on their own terms, free from the limits of the badguys, is a incomplete ending?

Hey, if I missed the completeness, please point it out to me. Here is a list of things which I do not feel like the ending addresses at all (i.e. things which were incomplete):

1. Why are my squad mates on the Normandy when they probably should have died charging the reapers with me and Anderson?
2. Why is joker jumping into the relay as it explodes?
3. Where does the Normandy crash land?
4. What happened to the folks on the Normandy after it crashed?
5. What happened to my other squad mates, who were in the FOB getting ready to attack the reaper with me (i.e., the ones not in your squad).
6. Where was Anderson prior to the charge down the hill to the tractor beam?
7. How was it that Anderson gets through the charge to the beam almost unharmed?
8. Where did the Illusive Man come from?
9. What is wrong with the Illusive man's face? It looks like it was burned up, exposing cybernetics beneath the outer layer of skin, but why? The game stabs at implications, but never tells you what happened. Was the Illusive man always some sort of Cyborg? Compare that to ME1 where Saren comes straight out and tells you he got implanted.
10. What happened to the rest of the races of the galaxy?
11. What happened to the Reapers that weren't in close proximity to the Crucible when it went off?
12. What is the result of destroying the relays on galactic civilization?
13. Who are the characters in the end talking about the legend of Shepard?
14. Where are the characters in the end talking about the legend of Shepard?
15. Why is the solution to preserving organic life destroying it viciously?
16. If the Reapers are benevolent, why do they do they accomplish the galactic harvest in such a malevolent way (i.e. turning people on loved ones, impaling them on spikes, etc)?

And so on.

 

[mgs16925]

For 14, they're in an old stock photo.

 

[Uszi]

For 14, they're in an old stock photo.

Or a hallmark card.

 

[MisterShine]

1. Why are my squad mates on the Normandy when they probably should have died charging the reapers with me and Anderson?

2. Why is joker jumping into the relay as it explodes?

A good question as to how they all got on the Normandy, I would guess that after seeing you and Anderson go up, the Normandy picked them up to rescue Shepard from the Citadel once the work was complete. However, seeing the Crucible start to destroy everything, they decided to run if they could.

8. Where did the Illusive Man come from?
9. What is wrong with the Illusive man's face?

Well for 8, we know he went ahead to inform the reapers about the crucible, I would guess he got onto the Citadel before the arms closed, and the reapers let him into the central area you meet him at (obviously allowing him to think he was winning)

As for what happens to his body.. I don't really know. I got the sense his eyes were based off of reaper tech, maybe it started infecting the rest of his body? No good answer there.

11. What happened to the Reapers that weren't in close proximity to the Crucible when it went off?

All of them were affected by your choice, the mass relays were a network that spread your choice to all of them, that's why in the ending sequence you see the relays light up and shoot out into a web over the galaxy. Hence why the relays are always "destroyed", doing this was their last function, or required them to self-destruct to make it happen.

15. Why is the solution to preserving organic life destroying it viciously?

Are you referring to the reapers or to the endings of the game itself? For the first, they specifically DIDN'T destroy all organic life on purpose. The reapers/crucible managed to deduce the point every time where Synthetic life would rise to obliterate organic, and the reapers would come shortly before that to ensure those races were destroyed, and new ones could take their place. The reapers would then turn each of those races into new reapers, thus preserving their species in some form forever. Kind of a fucked up way to do it, but they saw it as their only option.

If you meant the endings, in no ending, unless you screwed up terribly, does organic life end. Just the mass relays and possibly synthetic life. No FTL travel means that aliens are stuck wherever they were, but at least they're alive. Hell of a lot better than being liquified, in their opinion. Well, not a hell of a lot better, but ya know, better.

16. If the Reapers are benevolent, why do they do they accomplish the galactic harvest in such a malevolent way (i.e. turning people on loved ones, impaling them on spikes, etc)?

Benevolent is... a stretch. They preserve each organic race they destroy in a sense, and to them they see that as better than being wiped out utterly by Synthetics. Their possible flaw is they see that as Inevitable, and instead of trying to change it, just destroy things to keep it from getting too bad. They're the Anti-Spirals, basically. Once Shepard shows their method is inherently flawed (by managing to beat indoctrination, pulling the races together, the protheans showing the Cycles can be changed), they realize that eventually, though perhaps not this cycle, the organic races will be victorious, and everything they've worked for will be annihilated anyway. Thus, they ask for Shepard's help in deciding how to get around this.

3. Where does the Normandy crash land?
4. What happened to the folks on the Normandy after it crashed?
5. What happened to my other squad mates, who were in the FOB getting ready to attack the reaper with me (i.e., the ones not in your squad).
6. Where was Anderson prior to the charge down the hill to the tractor beam?
7. How was it that Anderson gets through the charge to the beam almost unharmed?
10. What happened to the rest of the races of the galaxy?
12. What is the result of destroying the relays on galactic civilization?
13. Who are the characters in the end talking about the legend of Shepard?
14. Where are the characters in the end talking about the legend of Shepard?

And so on.

These all have the same answer:

The Mass Effect main series has always been one thing: Shepard's story. Mass Effect 3 was touted above all as an end to the reaper threat, and the end of Shepard's story. When Shepard ends, so does the story.

Showing the Normandy and her crew on the planet shows you that your squad mates made it out alive, and the little kid and her grandpa on the planet show you that, despite what you did, Organic life survived, and that you and what you have done, is remembered, and mattered to at least one man.

Maybe that isn't enough for most people, but THAT, is Shepard's story.

Personally I'd love it if they went more in depth on what happens afterwards in the various endings, but I understand why they didn't in the game, and understand why they wouldn't later on down the road.

 

[Acton Hank]

The ending isn't bitter sweet. It's just bitter.

And this has everything that's bad about an ending: flimsy insipid nonsensical explanation for the villain's motivation, lack of closure or resolution for the main characters, to things happening for no reason or explanation, to in your face continuity errors.

You save the galaxy and your crew makes it out alive(still doing the other two atm, chose the middle one first time, so not sure if it changes) that's hardly 'just bitter.'

The explanation made perfect sense for being a villain's motivation, because the villain is/was a MACHINE. Plenty of closure for the main characters, in mine I sacrificed myself for the greater good and all my surviving bros that were on my ship are chilling on a beach somewhere. No idea what continuity errors you're talking about, because I certainly didn't see any.

You know what would have been nice? Being able to use the evidence of the Geth and EDI to prove that the entire logic of the cycle is built on a false premise (Synthetics inevitably destroying organics) and have the Catalyst voluntarily back down or kill itself. It's how Shepard solves 90% of his non-shooting problems through the games and a possible way to defeat every other major villain, so it's not like it wouldn't fit the tone.

This would have been nice though, as it makes sense too.

If I can convince THE ILLUSIVE MAN who is possibly the strongest willed human next to Shepard him/her-self to shoot himself, I can bloody well do the same for some old piece of machinery.

Care to explain how all your squadmates magically teleported aboard the Normandy right after Harbinger's beam hits you?

 

[SwagLordYoloson]

They will release some DLC to add more to the ending you just wait and see.

 

[Lucem712]

So out of curiosity, what happened with the fall out 3 changes? I played fallout 3 and didnt have much of a care about the ending (then again i wasnt all that crazy about the game so i dont remember) can someone jog my memory about what happened with it and what was changed in the DLC?

Spoiler

You sacrifice yourself for the good of mankind (regardless of the fact that you might have Fawkes RIGHT THERE and he's a super mutant and is immune to radiation), cut to voice over about how you are the ultimate hero with some stills

'Broken Steel' makes it to where you can survive it, have Fawkes do it, or be a dick and convince Paladin Lyons. You still get the epilogue but with the DLC you get to see your effects on the wasteland, clean water, water caravans with an HQ outside of Rivet City, mirelurks dyin' and also the option to continue exploring and some new quests.

 

[Acton Hank]

They will release some DLC to add more to the ending you just wait and see.

It better be some improvement for the endings, because nobody is gonna buy DLC for in game missions when they know that they're just gonna get the shitty ending anyway.

 

[timiriel]

13. Look at these screenshots. I believe the 1m1 is a clue, because of how often it shows up, and how human it is, when the ship is supposedly older then the ancients.

i wonder if this is right...
i've never done this before...
because i'm so shy...posting comments, i mean...
anyway... i'm kind of sad because of the ending...so i thought about
dropping by...and vent... i think i discovered something horrible...

i think 1m1 is used in Optics, it actually stands for inverse of focal length, or dioptry,
or, woes me, convergence...

convergence, you see, in Logic, is the notion that a sequence of transformations come to the same conclusion, no matter what order they are performed in...

oh, Bioware, the irony...

i hope i'm wrong...
okay...bye...bye...no more venting

and forgive my english, i'm romanian... sometimes

 

[Terminate421]

If you need more closure it just means you haven't used your imagination yet. That's the point of an open ending.

That really doesn't help when the framework your imagination is supposed to work in looks very, very bleak.

Millions if not billions of people are stranded without FTL travel, forever separated from their families and friends. And if they stuck on a planet that doesn't have food compatible with their biology, they will slowly starve to death. And the same thing goes for colonies dependent on food and medical supplies from the outside.

The stranded Normandy crew is in the same position. All indicates that they can't leave the planet they have crashed on. Joker, with his disease, probably won't last long, neither will Tail and Garrus, with their dependency on dextro food they are doomed to slowly starve to death. One could of course eat the other, but it would only delay the inevitable. And the size of the Normandy's crew doesn't allow for much genetic diversity. Even if the gay crew members are forced to procreate against their sexuality, it will still only take a few generations before they are forced to interbreed.

But then there is the rest of their position that we are not looking at.

We know they are on a planet, we don't know which one. Tropics come to mind in a few locations, including Virmire and tropical parts of Palaven. Even then, EDI was on the ship, they just have to drop a beacon in they'll be picked up in a few days. Beyond that, the ship will without a doubt have alot of food on standby for all people. And even then, the ship itself may have taken damage, but they can still repair it and get off the planet, the base of the ship still looks like it can hold, I believe they can all survive.

 

[Jedoro]

Aside from what's already been mentioned, I was kinda hoping I'd get to see every unique ground force directly aid me in that last battle. Blood Pack, Eclipse, Blue Suns, Spec Ops Team Delta, Serrice Guard, Geth Prime Platoon, STG, Blackwatch, and the Shadow Broker Wet Squad would have all been pretty awesome to include in the fight to get to the Citadel. I mean, it was cool to see soldiers from all the races I helped in the cutscenes, but since Shepard would be sent to the frontline to complete the most important objective, it'd make sense to give him/her the baddest motherfuckers in the galaxy as backup.

 

[Ronin1325]

Well IF the "Hallucination Theory" is correct, it would at least negate some of the angst that so many people are feeling, though I still think a fairly mean move on Bioware's part. I've started a thread on the BSN forums about compiling evidence to that regard, though it will doubtless get whacked pretty quick.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/9788465/1#9788928

The most compelling piece of evidence to support it for me is that in the ME book "Deception" when one of the main characters is taken over by the Collectors, he hears a 'growling' kind of noise every time they make him hallucinate/try to control him. At the beginning of ME3, when Shepherd sees the little boy, isn't there a kind of 'growling' noise as well? Doesn't it also come up whenever he has those dream sequences?

 

[mgs16925]

To me, this is what makes it a horrible ending more than anything else I mentioned in my earlier post. Not the ending itself; the missed opportunity represented by the fact that earlier a Reaper made the same argument as the Catalyst (which makes sense if it created and controls them), but it was possible to PROVE IT WRONG it just dies before it can see it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEozsxoOJvw&feature=watch_response

 

[Syzygy23]

If you need more closure it just means you haven't used your imagination yet. That's the point of an open ending.

That really doesn't help when the framework your imagination is supposed to work in looks very, very bleak.

Millions if not billions of people are stranded without FTL travel, forever separated from their families and friends. And if they stuck on a planet that doesn't have food compatible with their biology, they will slowly starve to death. And the same thing goes for colonies dependent on food and medical supplies from the outside.

The stranded Normandy crew is in the same position. All indicates that they can't leave the planet they have crashed on. Joker, with his disease, probably won't last long, neither will Tail and Garrus, with their dependency on dextro food they are doomed to slowly starve to death. One could of course eat the other, but it would only delay the inevitable. And the size of the Normandy's crew doesn't allow for much genetic diversity. Even if the gay crew members are forced to procreate against their sexuality, it will still only take a few generations before they are forced to interbreed.

Uh, don't you remember the Arrival DLC mission? When a relay explodes, it takes out the ENTIRE solar system it is in.

Last I checked, the citadel, all the fleets of every race AND earth were in a system with a mas relay. Oh, and don't forget, the Citdadel itself is a giant mass relay, so that's ANOTHER explosion on a LARGER scale.

Any choice you make and everyone is pretty muched effed in the A on sata-day. Also, why was the reaper creator the ghost of that one kid from the beginning? How would the "Creator" even KNOW about that kid? That was something only Shepherd experienced.
Yes, that does indeed look rather bleak. But sad or bleak doesn't equal bad. I get that a lot of people have trouble with handling a rather bleak ending.

But it's not all woe. Yes the relays are destroyed, but the Protheans managed to crack that technology in their timeframe. There is no indication the Asari couldn't do the same. Furthermore, Earth is at least saved. The people that survived can start rebuilding. Everyone on a planet that is somewhat self-sustainable has a large chance of being able to survive and start again.

But this time, free from the controlling force that was the Reapers. This time, the galaxy can make its own path. You know, as sad as the Normandy's fate is, in the grand scheme of things that's rather hopeful.

 

[Nimcha]

Uh, don't you remember the Arrival DLC mission? When a relay explodes, it takes out the ENTIRE solar system it is in.

Indeed. But the relays don't explode with the same force. They are drained and then disintegrated. The cutscene shows that perfectly.

Any choice you make and everyone is pretty muched effed in the A on sata-day.

Well, no. A lot of the big choices matter for the galaxy after the Reapers are gone. Geth vs. Quarians. Rachni. Genophage. To name a few.

Also, why was the reaper creator the ghost of that one kid from the beginning? How would the "Creator" even KNOW about that kid? That was something only Shepherd experienced.

You do remember the Reapers being able to indocrinate, right? They have the power to see into people's minds and, when those minds are weak and willing, manipulate them. It's pretty clear the death of that boy made an impact on Shepard (see: the dreams), and the Catalyst merely uses that fact to get Shepard's attention. It manifests itself in a form familiar to Shepard.

It's funny how I've made these points multiple times to multiple people. I'm beginning to get an idea of what the biggest misconceptions about the endings are.

 

[4173]

My biggest problem was the lack of a "fuck you Catalyst" ending. Being forced to believe the word of the just introduced, and possibly mistaken or biased Catalyst leaves a sour taste in my mouth. The game hadn't earned the ability to state "synthetics will inevitably wipe out organics," because the Catalyst has no real authority and it flies in the face of what we've experienced in many of the (potential) game worlds.

Second biggest problem is the complete neutering the coolest sequence in the series, the conversation with Sovereign.

 

[synobal]

It's funny how I've made these points multiple times to multiple people. I'm beginning to get an idea of what the biggest misconceptions about the endings are.

Pretty much this, and the whole 'everyone is stuck on an island and thus must all die or be doomed to some horrible fate' thing. I for one find it baffling.

My biggest problem was the lack of a "fuck you Catalyst" ending.

The control option is the 'screw you' option. By choosing to control the reapers and subvert their purpose and letting the races of the galaxy choose their own destiny you're basically saying you didn't buy into his whole 'organic vs synthetic' shtick.

You have to remember you can't just walk away, as all the races pinned their hope on the crucible being able to stop the Reapers. Walking away would be letting the Reapers win and destroy everyone.

Though I guess they could add an option where you nearly dead decided to walk away or try and destroy the catalyst, and then they do a cut scene to where in the next cycle someone finds Liara's box of information.

 

[sonofliber]

13. Look at these screenshots. I believe the 1m1 is a clue, because of how often it shows up, and how human it is, when the ship is supposedly older then the ancients.

i wonder if this is right...
i've never done this before...
because i'm so shy...posting comments, i mean...
anyway... i'm kind of sad because of the ending...so i thought about
dropping by...and vent... i think i discovered something horrible...

i think 1m1 is used in Optics, it actually stands for inverse of focal length, or dioptry,
or, woes me, convergence...

convergence, you see, in Logic, is the notion that a sequence of transformations come to the same conclusion, no matter what order they are performed in...

oh, Bioware, the irony...

i hope i'm wrong...
okay...bye...bye...no more venting

and forgive my english, i'm romanian... sometimes

here to keep your hopes up

http://social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/355/index/9727423/1

its basically a recap of all the things that show that it can possible be an indoctrination scene (quiet a long recap and interesting to say the least) (and some tweets while not confirming it, arent deniying it)