Poll: What is your opinion of "Retake Mass Effect 3" and/or "Hold the Line"

[Canadamus Prime]

Oh here we go again. Well I went with the 3rd option on the poll, the "^The same as the above but they have taken it too far or are not expressing their feelings in the appropriate/acceptable way" thing. Frankly I don't care that they hate the ending, hell I haven't even played the game, I've only had the ending described to me, so I have little idea how bad it really is. I don't even care that they want to voice their discontent about it, although they do come across as spoiled self-entitled little shits (sorry, I'm just telling it how it is). However when they start forming a whole movement whose aim is to get Bioware to change the ending just because they didn't like it, now that's just bat-shit insane. All this effort over the events of a fictional universe. Yeah it's a fictional universe that even I felt quite invested in, but not so invested that I couldn't forgo the third entry in the series in order to make a statement. There are ever so many more important and constructive things you people could be doing with your time than throwing a great big mass temper tantrum at Bioware.
Here's an idea, why don't you all get together and form your own video game company and show Bioware how it's done since you all seem to know so much? I look forward to your first big release (and slamming it into the ground, to teach you a lesson in complacency).

 

[Bobic]

I'm sorry, but what agreement? I didn't sign a contract last time I bought a game. And how is paying £40 for a product not a good reason for it to be satisfying?

You said you were entitled to a satisfying product. You are not, you are not actually entitled to anything. You are not buying something from a late night infomercial where they keep saying satisfaction guaranteed. You paid for a product and if it's not up to your expectations then oh well that wasn't part of the agreement. The developers owe you absolutely fuck all.

Also you don`t have to sign something to make a contract. You made one the second you paid for your game. When you purchase anything you are engaging in a legally binding contract.

Just because something is not part of a loosely defined agreement doesn't mean it shouldn't be. Also, they claimed that there wouldn't be an ending that boils down to A, B or C and then the ending was exactly that, so they did, in fact, break the agreement.

Anyway, what if I were to say that I disagree with fans demanding a new ending but think they are well within their rights to ask for a better ending?

 

[SomeBritishDude]

There's a certain point where any sane person would cut their loses, get on with their lives, maybe show there dissatisfation by not buying another Bioware game. These guys past that point weeks ago.

 

[LHZA]

Really, if this minorty fan segment had just done what they should have and gone "wow, that ending sucks." and moved on we all would have been better for it.

BTW has anyone else found the ME3 Ending much more satisfying if you did not become space jesus in ME 1 or 2? I found that by letting Wrex Die, Selling Legion off, banging Liara, then Thane, then Samantha, Killing the Geth, Jack getting caught, and Choosing Morinth only for her to become a banshee I found the game MUCH MORE SATISFYING. it felt like a Battlesatr Galactica Universe instead of Star Trek.

Heh! Space Jesus.

And Miranda dying. Felt more right to me, even though I didn't hate the character.

 

[roushutsu]

I voted the third option. In the long run, I agree whole heartedly about criticizing a bad ending and voicing concerns to the developers/publishers, but only to a certain extent. In the beginning of this whole thing I could understand, but as time went on some of the actions I felt were beyond reasonable (let alone logical).

 

[BrionJames]

I believe they're a lot of over-entitled king baby cry ass'. What I can't believe is that Bioware is even giving in to their demands and releasing DLC to change the ending. Everyone who's involved with this "protest" needs to stop and think about they're saying and then think about some past IP's that fans have been upset over. Star Wars prequel's, the last Indiana Jones movie, any of the Star Trek TNG movies? How many people were pissed off about those things and yet you don't see the producers or studio saying hey! let's redo this ending to satisfy our fans. Customer's should be flattered that they even considered doing it, let alone are re-doing the ending. For reference, I probably won't play Mass Effect 3 until it's gone way down in price, I enjoyed the first game enough to see it through to the end, just not for full price. I was disappointed with Mass Effect 2, with how they turned an expansive sci-fi RPG, into a bare bones RPG that was really just a third person action game. So, in closing, to all the people DEMANDING that Bioware fix the ending, in the words Penny Arcade has said to the online community before "Shut your stupid mouth!"

 

[Bobic]

Is there a good reason why people shouldn't be entitled to a satisfying product? It is the way it is because a dlc system was never in place. Fallout 3 improved its ending with dlc, people were quite happy with that.

There's no good reason why people should be entitled. It'd be nice if everything we bought satisfied us completely, but it should never be required and would be an impossible standard to live up to, due to the subjective nature most products fall under.

Games aren't pictures hung in a free to browse gallery, I still think the whole 'spent a chunk of money on it' thing is a good reason for a decent level of satisfaction. And yes, it's an impossible standard to live up to on the whole, but when there is this much dissatisfaction (I saw a poll on this very site with more than 2 thirds saying the ending was a problem) why should a company not take steps to rectify its failing? Maybe Bioware will win back some customers with this extended cut, who knows, could be win-win.

 

[anthony87]

I believe they're a lot of over-entitled king baby cry ass'. What I can't believe is that Bioware is even giving in to their demands and releasing DLC to change the ending.

And right there is where I stopped.

If you knew what you were talking about then you'd know that this DLC isn't changing the ending at all.

 

[Awexsome]

Somewhere between option 3 and option 1.

They'll defend their movement all they want but they didn't have that stereotype unfairly pushed onto them. They earned it by having a heck of a lot of people fitting right into that stereotype. People raging hard at the ending, metabombing them, ignoring the other 29 hours 50 minutes of the game, demanding all their wants be fufilled instantly and for free, the "worst company in America" contest thing where they said EA was worse than Bank of America...

They've got complaints about the end of the game that they're totally right about. But they've still completely lived up to that entitled whiners stereotype from my experience.

 

[Bobic]

Is there a good reason why people shouldn't be entitled to a satisfying product? It is the way it is because a dlc system was never in place. Fallout 3 improved its ending with dlc, people were quite happy with that.

There's no good reason why people should be entitled. It'd be nice if everything we bought satisfied us completely, but it should never be required and would be an impossible standard to live up to, due to the subjective nature most products fall under.

Games aren't pictures hung in a free to browse gallery, I still think the whole 'spent a chunk of money on it' thing is a good reason for a decent level of satisfaction. And yes, it's an impossible standard to live up to on the whole, but when there is this much dissatisfaction (I saw a poll on this very site with more than 2 thirds saying the ending was a problem) why should a company not take steps to rectify its failing? Maybe Bioware will win back some customers with this extended cut, who knows, could be win-win.

Like I said before, you hope for the best when you buy something. If it doesn't meet your standards then you try to be more wary next time. Anyone can spend money on anything, but not everyone will be satisfied with everything. "You can't please em all" and all that. Even if most of your audience is upset, the most you should be "expected" to do is take it into consideration in future endeavors.

And personally, I was still pretty damn satisfied with the other 99% of Mass Effect 3.

While that is the case now, is there a good reason why, with the invention of dlc, we can't change that? Is it really a good thing that when most of the audience is upset, they have to stay upset, even when the company has the ability to fix it?

Just because something is not part of a loosely defined agreement doesn't mean it shouldn't be. Also, they claimed that there wouldn't be an ending that boils down to A, B or C and then the ending was exactly that, so they did, in fact, break the agreement.

Anyway, what if I were to say that I disagree with fans demanding a new ending but think they are well within their rights to ask for a better ending?

Thing this is they dont owe you anything at all once you pay for the product.

I have no problem with people asking Bioware to expand/fix the ending of the game. I think that is actually the proper way to go about it.

What I do have a problem with is people demanding that Bioware do that and saying that they are entitled to a better one. They are not entitled to fuck all. Thats actually kind of why I like the rout that Bioware is taking. Expanding the current ending but not actually changing it.

I also think people are way overreacting. It is just a game, there have been bad games before and there will be again. This one is not special. Its a risk you run when you buy a product like this.

I guess we're sort of in agreement there then, I am thoroughly in option 3 of the poll, some members of the retake movement really were acting like that special type of douche that seems to thrive on the internet. It's just that I think if a company annoys that many people, they have made a big mistake, and steps to rectify that seem to be good for everyone, so why not?

I will add, and this is to both of you (and anyone else who is reading), that it should always fall on to the developer to decide whether and what changes to make. If a writer (or writing team) makes an unpopular decision and decides they want to stand by their artistic decision to do whatever it is they did, then more power to them. This is why I made the ask/demand distinction. Fans can and should ask for whatever they want, but they should never demand it, that's when it becomes entitlement.
P.S. I'm not sure how much of that applies to mass effect 3, I've been arguing for the general concept, not this specific case.

 

[Scorpid]

I think personally that they have a right to be angry. The ending did feel phoned in. BioWare/EA saying they're going to clarify the horrible one choice ending is an insult to their fans that they think they have no right to be mad. OR they really aren't listening at all and just guessed that people only wanted to get more details out of the ending they didn't at all like. Not to mention a two year limit on it only exacerbates this problem.

I understand that compromising the story tellers ability to tell a story and its end without worrying about being attacked for merely not delivering EXACTLY what the players expected as a concern, but to me this doesn't apply because if I could personally see some real effort being put into wrapping it up with that ending i could get behind this... but i simply don't see it in the ending we got, and with the added fact that Mass Effect was sold as a game where your choices carried real consequences to the end, I have to agree with the retake Mass Effect people. Personally I would argue it should be called retake Bioware because since the EA purchase they have done them no favors reputation wise, which is why EA bought them for their superb reputation to deliver story driven RPG's that drew players in.

Personally I think EA has just gotten so large that they view their customers as some enemy that they must over come and beat into submission to get money from them. I only see antagonism coming from EA recently with them refusing to change anything despite customer outcry.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

It is incredibly annoying to see people dismiss complaints because of the Extended Cut DLC. The Extended Cut doesn't even touch the major complaints, so why would you view it as a gift to the complainers? It's not. Maybe a few people wanted this, but it doesn't address the most common complaints.

It is also really frustrating to see gamers come down so hard on other gamers who simply want a product that doesn't suck sweaty balls. Sure, some of the outrage is a little much, but aren't you pointing the finger in the wrong direction all the same? Gamers put up with this shit way too fucking much. Demanding good products and services does NOT make you entitled or a douche (somehow those words always get paired). Everyone who isn't a gamer takes that for granted. What's so fucking weird is to see gamers self-policing their own ranks, attacking anyone who stands up for them. It's not just Mass Effect, it's any issue in the industry that affects consumers.

I fucking hate it.

 

[Durgiun]

Hardly. A good ending is important to any story, but the uproar the Retake and Hold the Line people made is just going overboard. They're acting as if BioWare just stole their girl/boyfriends/wifes/husbands and are now demanding the wrong be righted.

This is not a story but a video game.

Your description of the "uproar" looks like more of the same overreaction to me.

The video game has a story. Ergo, we're talking about a story with a crap ending that just so happens to take the form of a video game.

If you think this is overreacting then you have very weird standards.

 

[getoffmycloud]

I went with entitled crybabies simply because now they are complaining about the extended cut DLC which has proved what I really thought all along which is they are just Bioware fans doing what Bioware fans do which is complaining about everything the company ever does.