Poll: What's so good about America?

[Undeleted]

The highest immigration rate in the world is actually the United Arab Emirates at almost 23 immigrants/1000 people. Canada is 18th at 5.63/1000 and the US is 25th at 4.31/1000.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2112rank.html

Well don't I look silly now

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

edit-

someone demanded that I own up to being a socialist, because apparently that's a really important detail

why does america seem to have such a problem with socialists? never understood that.

OT: While i like americans as individuals the country itself from where i'm sitting here in the U.K. comes across as rather egomanic, controlling, saying one thing while doing another and convertly trying to build a religious empire whilst condemming other empires (many of which they worked to disband after the world wars).

I know that may come across as extreme to many, but it is a pretty accurate condensed version of what many people here i know, and know about, feel.

Are socialists generally accepted in Britain?

 

[Kingsman]

Y'know, when you get right down to it, America's not all that bad a nation.

Sure, we're fat, ignorant, and stupid, but at least we're not starving, oppressed, or enslaved.

And, yeah, there are all those politicians who are corrupt, stupid, etc. Whatever, I can't even say I know anything that goes on in political circles anymore, since there's always another fact or something to weigh in before you can make "an informed opinion." Otherwise, you just make yourself look stupid.

We have a system which, true, might be based on human selfishness, but the fact that it acknowledges that selfishness makes us better for it, instead of trying to assume an ideal standard that would inevitably become corrupted.

All problems aside, though, there are very few other places on earth I would rather be living. Maybe Japan, but that's it.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

Hate the people in the country, not the country itself.

I quite like the American people in general.

However, I think that the people who generally run it, acting as the country, are completely inept

Well, thank the people acting as the country that they've allowed you the right to freely critique them without consequence. America has a lot of problems and definitely isn't perfect, but it really shines by comparison. There are very few places I would rather live than America.

One thing that causes so many problems for America is that throughout its formation up until very recently, America was extremely open to any and all immigration. We have a level of diversity in our country (and therefore, a lot of warring cultural ideologies) which few places can match. America kind of makes things harder on itself by granting so many rights and freedoms to its citizens. If we were a totalitarian dictatorship, we'd probably have a stabler economy. Of course, I'd be working in a mine or sweatshop right now, so don't think I'm advocating that.

Compared to the rest of the world- America treats its citizens absolutely superbly. Its actions in foreign countries sicken me, well, some of them do. Some are good.

However, there are very few western nations that don't grant their citizens free speech. So that point is somewhat mute as to the specific discussion.

They might grant them that, but it's usually not in writing that they have it as a right. In other words, it can be taken away anytime the government feels like it.

with a two thirds vote it can here too.

the constitution is not sacred, it has been changed, and outright ignored, many times in our history

 

[Greyfall]

Its true many people dont like America. Including alot of Americans. Oh well : )
Not like anyon can/will do anything about it. America has the strongest military in the world, and forget about cultural domination. Rammstein put it best.

 

[Valksy]

The beliefs and ideals that the USA was founded of are quite incredible and, in my mind, amazing and wonderful. If only "life, Libery and the pursuit of happiness" was a real and genuine aim (I know that is in the Declaration, not the Constitution). I think many US citizens believe themselves to be people of truth and justice and freedom and many other entirely honourable traits.

The sad part is that the government and structure of the country has let the people down terribly. And for reasons I cannot fathom, the people seem to be letting them.

It distrubs me deeply that many US citizens are taking religious faith as some sort of contact sport where they compete to be the most holy and faithful. And those who claim a direct line to a deity of their choice alarm me even more.

I am equally disturbed by how the population seems content to believe that anyone asking questions of government, infastructure etc are somehow being "unpatriotic" and that is somehow a terrible thing. I admit that it is late here (almost 3am, I can't sleep) and it has been a long time since I last read the Declaration of Independence. But is it not actually considered the duty of the people to challenge government when it becomes tyrannical?

I don't understand why no one seems to stand up against the dodgy media, the rampant lobbying for votes, the wanton corruption.

For every decent and generous US citizen I know in real life I know there is a Fred Phelps - who I first saw on the net condemning and shouting abuse at the funeral of Matthew Shepherd and who I know now harangue the families of deceased servicemen and women. Fundamentalism of any flavour is a cancer on society. The outpouring of bile and hatred made me heartsick for the bereaved.

I will put my hands up and say that I am something of a socialist (not unusual in the UK, although our New Labour can go eat a dick). I don't like the sick and the elderly being left in the gutter because they cannot afford to live decently. If even one OAP freezes to death or has to eat cat food to survive then I believe society has failed and is indecent. I suppose it relates to the healthcare debate in the US which just makes me very uncomfortable as a human being.

If the USA was just what it claimed to be, a true land of the free and home of the brave where Liberty and justice were held high then it would be the greatest nation on earth. To an outsider like me it looks as if those ideals are pretty hollow.

Now that doesn't mean I believe Americans are bad people. By and large I do not believe that most are decent and ordinary folks living decent and ordinary lives. I just do not believe in the American Dream.

Huh. Don't know how much of that made sense, but it is kind of late here. As a final disclaimer I will point out that we Brits have our fair share of flaws and we did some seriously shitty things in the past.

 

[firedfns13]

]Mostly because an exuberant amount of money spent on the military means that there's less money to spend on other things, like education, health, and other public services. Also once you start building a large military (and start putting it to use) it becomes very hard not to keep pouring more and more money into it.

Which is what we should do! That way, the stupid kids get educated through the military and then theres less healthcare to provide later! OOh and also, who needs cops and hospitals if everyone is either a corpsman, mp, or rifleman?! (among the other thousand things you can be)

 

[UltraParanoia]

We had no proper right or reason to invade Iraq

Killing a family of dictators whose favorite pastimes included finding new and inventive ways of killing their own people strikes me as a decent reason.

In the process destroying their nation and killing more civilians than that family ever would have- all in the name of profit for the military industrial complex

The American military might is currently NOT grinding up the citizenry of Iraq for motives of profit, revenge and/or imperialism.

Pretty much all of the estimates I can find for the 24 years saddam was in power point to him killing a few hundred thousand people,(read: 4,5,600,000 and those are the low end.)

So far, the average number I can find for total Iraqi civvie deaths currently range from 100k to 150k, and most of those are chalked up to deaths by ieds and bombers.

And profit for the military industrial complex means better, more accurate weapons that have less chance of killing civilians.

 

[G1eet]

Pros:

-"Melting pot" culture- because of it, I can sample homemade foods from at least six different countries in my hometown.
-Olivia Munn

Cons:

-the government

 

[firedfns13]

The beliefs and ideals that the USA was founded of are quite incredible and, in my mind, amazing and wonderful. If only "life, Libery and the pursuit of happiness" was a real and genuine aim (I know that is in the Declaration, not the Constitution). I think many US citizens believe themselves to be people of truth and justice and freedom and many other entirely honourable traits.

The sad part is that the government and structure of the country has let the people down terribly. And for reasons I cannot fathom, the people seem to be letting them.

It distrubs me deeply that many US citizens are taking religious faith as some sort of contact sport where they compete to be the most holy and faithful. And those who claim a direct line to a deity of their choice alarm me even more.

I am equally disturbed by how the population seems content to believe that anyone asking questions of government, infastructure etc are somehow being "unpatriotic" and that is somehow a terrible thing. I admit that it is late here (almost 3am, I can't sleep) and it has been a long time since I last read the Declaration of Independence. But is it not actually considered the duty of the people to challenge government when it becomes tyrannical?

I don't understand why no one seems to stand up against the dodgy media, the rampant lobbying for votes, the wanton corruption.

For every decent and generous US citizen I know in real life I know there is a Fred Phelps - who I first saw on the net condemning and shouting abuse at the funeral of Matthew Shepherd and who I know now harangue the families of deceased servicemen and women. Fundamentalism of any flavour is a cancer on society. The outpouring of bile and hatred made me heartsick for the bereaved.

I will put my hands up and say that I am something of a socialist (not unusual in the UK, although our New Labour can go eat a dick). I don't like the sick and the elderly being left in the gutter because they cannot afford to live decently. If even one OAP freezes to death or has to eat cat food to survive then I believe society has failed and is indecent. I suppose it relates to the healthcare debate in the US which just makes me very uncomfortable as a human being.

If the USA was just what it claimed to be, a true land of the free and home of the brave where Liberty and justice were held high then it would be the greatest nation on earth. To an outsider like me it looks as if those ideals are pretty hollow.

Now that doesn't mean I believe Americans are bad people. By and large I do not believe that most are decent and ordinary folks living decent and ordinary lives. I just do not believe in the American Dream.

Huh. Don't know how much of that made sense, but it is kind of late here. As a final disclaimer I will point out that we Brits have our fair share of flaws and we did some seriously shitty things in the past.

Seems a great deal better than where a fair number of my friends have come from. America > Taiwan, Venezuela, China, Mongolia, Russia, Poland, Vietnam, Philippines, and I'm sure there are more.

As for the American Dream, a fair amount of it is how much you're willing to do, as well as a fair amount of luck. If all you do is complain, or think you're screwed, you're not going to become a billionaire. If you are like one of those lost refugee boys from Africa, hold a full time job and take night classes in order to get a better lifestyle, then damn it, thats the American Dream. I don't think they could make it like that in very many other countries.

 

[Kingsman]

We had no proper right or reason to invade Iraq

Killing a family of dictators whose favorite pastimes included finding new and inventive ways of killing their own people strikes me as a decent reason.

In the process destroying their nation and killing more civilians than that family ever would have- all in the name of profit for the military industrial complex

The American military might is currently NOT grinding up the citizenry of Iraq for motives of profit, revenge and/or imperialism.

Pretty much all of the estimates I can find for the 24 years saddam was in power point to him killing a few hundred thousand people,(read: 4,5,600,000 and those are the low end.)

So far, the average number I can find for total Iraqi civvie deaths range from 100k to 150k, and most of those are chalked up to deaths by ieds and bombers.

And profit for the military industrial complex means better, more accurate weapons that have less chance of killing civilians.

JESUS, thank you. I am SO sick of people beating on us going into Iraq.

Right now, the only good reason I can think of for us to pull out would be to lighten our expenses so they can be put to other uses, but every person I fucking find on the Internet seems to be under the impression that Americans abroad are Nazi sadists with knives taped to their fingers.

And I am FUCKING HATING IT.

 

[lazy_bum]

edit-

someone demanded that I own up to being a socialist, because apparently that's a really important detail

why does america seem to have such a problem with socialists? never understood that.

OT: While i like americans as individuals the country itself from where i'm sitting here in the U.K. comes across as rather egomanic, controlling, saying one thing while doing another and convertly trying to build a religious empire whilst condemming other empires (many of which they worked to disband after the world wars).

I know that may come across as extreme to many, but it is a pretty accurate condensed version of what many people here i know, and know about, feel.

Are socialists generally accepted in Britain?

Sure, to the point that in the last set of local elections the communist party did ok in my area, didnt come anywhere near winning but better than the christian party and suchlike. its not a big deal over here. i mean, two of my best mayes, one is a marxist and the other believes facism is the only workable social model in the long run. the two of them get along fine and are a great laugh to listen to after a few drinks.

I honestly cannot understand the pervieved american stance 'kill all commies'. the USSR collapsed ages ago and that wasnt even proper communism once Stalin got the reins. i really dont understand it.

possibly you could shed some light on it?

 

[Silva]

I think it's so simplistic to rate a country in a generalised manner as good or bad.

If you're talking about a specific issue or approach, product or mission, then it's easy to rate something. If you're vague enough to say a country is good or bad, then you probably don't know what you're talking about.

Really, this thread is just a straw man created to allow us to either glorify or scandalise the US, when neither make any sense. And sadly, the fact that it is a straw man is escaping most people reading the thread. So I refuse to participate in the poll.

The United States is a group of individuals. There is not a single way in which all of these people are unified by choice (even citizens of the US might not necessarily be willing citizens, so that's out too). This is why we can't say, "oh, this country is bad" or "good": every individual is going to have their own strengths and flaws.

The sum of those individuals is an unbalanced equation with a result incalculable by any human brain I happen to know about, and that's before the process of judging that result as ethical or inethical comes to the fore. It's the sort of thing that would give even AC, a sentient supercomputer from Isaac Newton's The Last Question, a headache.

Let's stop pretending we're good enough to judge whole nations, and instead judge piece by piece. We can at least achieve that.

Or perhaps we could be more like Germany or Australia, each of which uses excessive censorship and banning in video games. And if ONLY we had that 50%+ tax that all Swedish citizens have to pay.

Hahahahaha.

Did you just rate a country entirely on the basis of their stance on video games?

Did you really?

I don't even need to say anything, the ridiculousness of that post stands for itself.

 

[Enigmers]

I think that there are smart people and there are idiots in every nationality, and the mass of land you live on is very little indication of that, so I'll say Average because it's the most neutral and boring thing to do.

 

[Supreme Unleaded]

God, I HATE the youth in America the most. I'm 14, I'd like to say im a very smart 14 year old that cares one hell of a lot more about the news then Survivor or who person X is dating. But thats not all, that is the simple stuff, the arrogance and ignorance this generation has brought is utterly pathetic, im sure each country has their share of idiots but about 85% of the people i've met in America at somewhere within 5 years of my age are stupid as hell. I mean they can't back up opinions, their information is wrong, their just plain stupid, and people don't even know how to fight anymore. No one can even have a manly fight, its all sucker punches, and people have lost complete contact of all morals too.

I could go on but that would just extend my Wall O' Text. I'm sure the whole world is suffering from this but America just seems to be the worste.

I want to move to Canada, the bacon is great there eh.

 

[Soulkiller3]

You lot did more harm then good in iraq (you killed more civs then sadham ever did), you lot allso need to sort out alot of problems at home before starting wars abroad. Am sorry but i disslike the usa dont get me wrong hear in the uk we are not perfect but for real at lest get free medical before having ago at other people the way they run they contery.

 

[Joeshie]

Or perhaps we could be more like Germany or Australia, each of which uses excessive censorship and banning in video games. And if ONLY we had that 50%+ tax that all Swedish citizens have to pay.

Hahahahaha.

Did you just rate a country entirely on the basis of their stance on video games?

Did you really?

I don't even need to say anything, the ridiculousness of that post stands for itself.

I didn't realize that censorship and banning of media wasn't a big deal. Just like invasion of privacy probably isn't a big deal, is it?

I just always find it strange America proclaims itself land of the free where you can say and do anything but seems so racist, homophobic, conservative and xenophobic compared to other western countries.

How ignorant are you? The fact that we allow people to be racist, homophobic, conservative, and xenophobic just means that we allow people to say what they want. Isn't that the definition of freedom of speech?

How retarded are you? I can't get married in your fucking country.

Yeah, I know and it fucking sucks. I was supremely disappointed by Maine's decision to overturn gay marriage.

But you missed the fact that I was talking about free speech, rather than the right to marry. I know this might sound crazy to some of you, but freedom of speech means taking the bad with the good. I don't agree with what they say, but I will defend to the death the right for them to say it.

...It's like the patriot act and Guantanamo never existed. >_>

I never implied that they didn't. My point was to say that, "Yeah, America sucks massively and does stupid shit, but so do other countries. Particularly the "superior" countries that the original poster thinks so highly of". I then listed some quick examples to show why they aren't any better than America.

If your middle and upper classes can pay 50% taxes and everyone in the nation will be taken care of- I say good

Yeah, reward the lazy and punish the hard-workers. Sounds like the right attitude to me.

Yeah we had him on and gave him his right to free speech (we don't have a biased news system here you see, we give everyone the right to say what they want), he was then laughed at for being an out of touch racist nutter and got ripped to pieces by the other partys representatives, it was quite funny to watch.

So yeah maybe you should look into things before just shouting out what you've heard, its like all the Americans shouting about 1984 and Britain becoming a totalitarian state,

Last time I checked, the entire reason the BBC allowed him into the debate was because his xenophobic party actually won seats in the Parliament. My problem isn't that they let his party speak, but you guys actually elected two of his party.

So don't go around spouting out that Britain is this peaceful, non-hateful nation when it's clear that you do have plenty of people who aren't.

 

[metalhead467]

Come ON.

There are idiots in every country.

Racists in every country.

Dumbasses in every country/ I'm sure if you went to ANY country you'd find people on the streets who didn't know basic things like that stuff.

We aren't perfect, but we aren't any worse than any other country.

 

[Pingieking]

Seems a great deal better than where a fair number of my friends have come from. America > Taiwan, Venezuela, China, Mongolia, Russia, Poland, Vietnam, Philippines, and I'm sure there are more.

I actually think that Taipei is by far the sweetest city I've ever spent more than 6 months living in, the closest competition might be San Francisco, but I was only there for a 3 week stay at a relative's place. Also spent time in Halifax, New York, LA, and ChenDu (only 4 months here, but it was quite an intense two months).
The American cities were cool (except LA, I hated that place). I find that America doesn't suit me because it's quite polarized, and I don't mean that in a totally negative way. It's politics are certainly polarized, but what I didn't like the most was the economic polarization. I found that it was extremely difficult to be "middle class" in the US. In Canada and Taiwan our family was able to live what can be considered typical middle class lives (single parent household too), but it was almost impossible to do in the US. I think it was mostly the tuition problem. If we had stayed in the US my university tuition would nearly bankrupt us, where as in Canada, I don't even have to go into debt for it.
The US has a lot of positives too. I'm just not too attracted to the upsides of the US. The American dream is built so that you have to work really really really hard, and I kind of follow my grandmother's idea of "You live to play, not to work", so I guess I fundamentally don't fit into America that well. I guess the overall mark would be average for me.