Poll: why can't students love their teachers?

[CrimsonBlaze]

Teachers and students are just that: teachers and students.

It's wrong because either side can be manipulated in any way, shape, or form. Even if there is a mutual attraction between two consenting adults, within the given parameters, there are always suspicions and risks that this can go sour very quickly.

If the two want to pursue a relationship after one or both have left the educational institution, then that is perfectly fine (if they are into that). Otherwise, it's inappropriate.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Every so often you'll hear about some teacher or NFL cheerleader getting throw in jail cause she made love to high school student somewhere. my question is though, why is this even a crime? i read a story once about a 24 year old teacher getting jail time for sleeping with her 21 year old student.

What really? That's happened? I'm mean sure the High School teacher sleeping with the 13 year old student is definitely worth jail time, but a 24 and a 21 year old? That's seems odd. I mean sure it brings into question the Teacher's integrity and is probably a violation of professional etiquette, but they're both consenting adults so that should hardly be worth jail time. As long as they're both consenting I don't see a problem, aside from the afor mentioned integrity and professional etiquette that is.

 

[Darken12]

There are basically three different situations where this applies:

A) Adult has sex with a minor under the age of consent: this is illegal for obvious reasons, so it doesn't matter how willing the minor is, he legally cannot give consent.
B) Adult has sex with minor over the age of consent: this might be legal, but it takes on a predatory tone as the position of authority over the minor (along with the adult/minor age difference) puts severe pressure on the student to do as the teacher says. This can easily lead to coerced consent. It may also be against the local law or the local school regulations.
C) Adult has sex with another adult: here you also have the coerced consent thing, but it's not as severe as the previous case. However, it can also be against local laws or school regulations.

Basically, the crux of the matter is coerced consent. While the student might be giving consent, the situation surrounding the relationship might be such that significant pressure is put on the student to give such consent. For example, if I'm a student and a teacher makes a pass at me, I will feel at a tremendous disadvantage, as the teacher can "get back at me" for my rejection by destroying my grade in perfectly justifiable ways, and if I try to levy a case of sexual harassment, it's likely that the school administration will side with the teacher when there is an absence of evidence, since students are notoriously immature, petty, mischievous and clearly not above fabricating such accusations for their own ends. And likewise, teachers are known by the school staff as respectable, trustworthy, level-headed and professional, so it takes very solid evidence to convince them otherwise. So if I, the student, knows this, when the teacher makes a pass at me, I have to choose between getting my grades destroyed (and potentially losing things like scholarships or getting into the college/grad school/etc they want, which in turn will end up shaping the rest of their lives) or having sex with them. That is coerced consent. I might end up giving consent, but it was similar to the consent I might give with a gun pointed at my head.

So when the school administration finds out about a student-teacher affair, even if the student wildly denies accusations of coercion, this pressure still exists, and the school administration just can't be sure. It's best to make blanket statements that forbid such relationships than doing extensive and awkward investigations to rule out coercion (which is not as easy as it sounds).

 

[thiosk]

Teacher student can't work because of power balance issues. In college, you can bang a professor though, provided they are not responsible for grading you.

 

[Auron225]

I have to laugh at the first poll option; "yes, if the student is in high school - then it's a crime". PRIMARY school on the other hand... =P

 

[aba1]

Because teachers are instructors and it's hard to retain professionalism with someone you're boinking, not mentioning that said boink-y would likely receive special treatment.

Kind of like how therapists can lose their license for getting too intimate with clients.

I won't say 16 or 17 year olds shouldn't be having sex but when it's with someone much older it's usually more them being taken advantage of rather than genuine affection.

This says it all fairly well not to mention the fact that teachers could abuse there position of power to take advantage of students who might not want to risk their future denying the advances. In the end it is all about professionalism as stated above.

 

[Overusedname]

Because we have to set a limit and teacher's aren't supposed to fuck students? That teacher's may be preying on student's in these situations.

I thought threads like these had died.

Yes 18 is arbitrary. As arbitrary as 16 or 20 or 21. We must decide on a limit and we decided on 18. Deal with it.

EDIT:Not to mention the whole part about the power balance.

What he said.

Power balance is a thing, dude. And so is favoritism. And so is potentially psychologically screwing a kid up for life, messing with their ability to respect authority.

 

[Yopaz]

OK, so I think it should be forbidden, but not illegal. Serving time over this is stupid since consensual sex isn't a crime. A teacher shouldn't have to face time over this. However that teacher probably shouldn't be allowed to teach if this is discovered.

It's not a matter of paedophilia, but a matter of being in an authorial position. You are supposed to keep a professional position towards those you have under your authority. A boss having sex with his secretary is often considered abuse of position and I consider the teacher student relationship worse since the student isn't likely to be as experienced.

A teacher also has to grade a student and being objective is hard enough without the sexual relationship. Some teachers are likely to give grades because they like the student or want to support him/her. I know I have received some unfair grades that kept me from failing math because the teacher didn't want me to fail.

 

[The White Hunter]

Even if it is legal, i.e. the student is over 16 and both parties consent, the school finding out will almost definately result in the teachers dismissal.

 

[NightmareExpress]

It's more for the sake of professionalism in the "workplace".
In the school environment, a student's job is to learn and a teacher's job is fairly self explanatory.
If the two were to have intimate relations, it would likely affect their ability to do their job as well as they could.
I believe doctors have the same thing going with their patients, to some degree.

As for whether or not "it's wrong", that would be debatable depending on who you're talking to.
If it's two mature adults, I don't see anything out of the ordinary. If the student was young and still in the process of growing up, then I could see the definite wrong in it. It would be an abuse of authoritative power on the teacher's part.

 

[blazearmoru]

I believe that there is nothing wrong with student teacher relationships BUT because we're human and prone to fuckups, it leaves too much room for problems. It's not the student-teacher reationship that is the problem, it's all the other shit that comes along with it.

 

[dagens24]

It shouldn't be illegal as long as the student is of a legally consenting age. They should, however, be fired regardless of the age of the student; they are in a position of authority where their relationship creates a conflict of interest.

 

[vgmaster831]

...

Well, power balance have already been mentioned as the reason.

There's no reason it couldn't be adapted to become a closer fit to that reasoning though, by ensuring that prosecution could only take place with the consent of the victim's legal guardians. That way, power would remain with the student/parents, while the government would not be forcing itself into the bedrooms of student/teacher relationships which all parties concerned were perfectly fine with.

The problem is that rape is a capital crime, and it's not actually the victim or the parents prosecuting the rapist, it's the state. Changing that precedent could lead to people not getting prosecuted after committing really heinous crimes for a variety of reasons.

Then define a consensual student/teacher relationship as something else - in a different penal code article - and make prosecution under that article subject to student approval.

It is certainly possible for a student to be taken advantage of and not think they are being taken advantage of. Hell, adults get into unhealthy relationships like that all the time. As a society, we need to protect minors. It was said before, 18 is an arbitrary number, but there needs to be a threshold of some kind. Statutory rape is still rape, because children lack the ability to make an informed decision to consent. I think some adults don't really form opinions well, and I know some children perfectly capable of making informed choices. Like I said, there needs to be a line somewhere.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

Because we have to set a limit and teacher's aren't supposed to fuck students? That teacher's may be preying on student's in these situations.

Yes 18 is arbitrary. As arbitrary as 16 or 20 or 21. We must decide on a limit and we decided on 18. Deal with it.

Speak for yourself. It's 16 here.

Yeah the teachers might be preying on them, or the feelings may be mutual. If the student feels forced then it's constitutional rape and illegal anyway, but if the student consents... I don't see what's wrong there.

Also, please stop putting apostrophes in plurals. They don't go there.

 

[Vivi22]

EDIT:Not to mention the whole part about the power balance.

This is the big part of it, and also has to do with why the age of majority is considered the limit in many places (with reasonable exceptions in many countries which aren't the US. Their statutory rape laws are absurd and completely backward and immoral in some ways).

Adults in general, but teachers especially are in a position of authority over children/students. How do we know that someone who's underage is in a consensual relationship with someone and not being taken advantage of (either because they're young and naive or because the teacher has threatened them)? The reality is that we can't, and even if the child says it's consensual, it really might not be. They may be lying, or they may have been manipulated into having sex with their teacher. So instead of trying to take it on a case by case basis and do the near impossible of proving a crime has taken place, we instead err on the side of caution until someone is considered an adult for the sake of protecting children from harm and punishing those who would take advantage of them.

 

[Loonyyy]

1) Unprofessional. It's a conflict of interest.

2) Often criminal, if the student isn't of the age of consent.

You couldn't answer this for yourself?

 

[Gigano]

...
It is certainly possible for a student to be taken advantage of and not think they are being taken advantage of. Hell, adults get into unhealthy relationships like that all the time. As a society, we need to protect minors. It was said before, 18 is an arbitrary number, but there needs to be a threshold of some kind. Statutory rape is still rape, because children lack the ability to make an informed decision to consent. I think some adults don't really form opinions well, and I know some children perfectly capable of making informed choices. Like I said, there needs to be a line somewhere.

Which is where the parents come into the picture. If a 16 year old boy is indeed being taken advantage of by his 23 year old teacher, they can approve of prosecution even against the boy's will, because they're his legal guardians. If both the boy and parents are fine with the relationship, then it really isn't any of society's business.

A threshold is needed, but there's no reason to not make it as flexible as can be, while still serving its purpose. Student approval for prosecution ensures that victimless crimes are not prosecuted, while granting the power and protection of the law to the student.

 

[Not Matt]

well.........i can understand it when the student is underage or the age gap is too large. but the 21 year old student and the 24 year old teacher sounds okay with me(as long as it wasn't abuse ofcorse). could even be a cute couple. think it's a crime because it is sort of like excepting a bribe or black mailing the student in to doing it. BUT! if the student and the teacher is in love (and both in an age group that's appropriate) then i have to support team love.

 

[kyuzo3567]

It's probably been said already but I don't want to read through three pages.
It's illegal until the student is 18+, after that the only issue I think anyone should have is whether or not the student is directly under the teachers' influence. Basically you can sleep with your prof in university, but it shouldn't be allowed while you are taking his course and he can manipulate or doctor your grades. Once you're no longer under direct influence then go right ahead