Poll: Why I don't like Elves
- Thread starter Skeleon
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The problem I have with elves centres on their character. All fantasy monsters with any intelligence are just stereotypes of human attitudes and behaviours. Elves are proud, intelligent, aloof. In rpgs I have seen a lot of elven characters played and they are always the same. I keep away from that pit into elven similarity.
I may be lynched for this but an unorthodox variety of elves that I really liked were the elves in the Artemis Fowl books. I mean they avoided all of the mistakes identified by the OP:Skeleon said:
- society that is constantly changing
- range of characters in terms of physical and mental characteristics rather than just the skinny, long haired, arrogant stereotype
- technology and scientific based rather than tradionalist.
Of course that might be a good reason for saying they're spiritually more like dwarves or environmentally friendly humans than elves anyway.
Nope I don't like them.
For the most part elves are arrogant - trait I realy fucking hate.
Yes there are some exeptions but "We are wise and immortal and know better so we will not listen to you small brained rant and majorly fuck things up" is almost always there.
Plus they are...blant. All are immortal and wise. Isn't there ungly elves, dumb elves, harden by reality elves...you get my point.
(I know there are exeptios but I am talking about elves as race)
For the most part elves are arrogant - trait I realy fucking hate.
Yes there are some exeptions but "We are wise and immortal and know better so we will not listen to you small brained rant and majorly fuck things up" is almost always there.
Plus they are...blant. All are immortal and wise. Isn't there ungly elves, dumb elves, harden by reality elves...you get my point.
(I know there are exeptios but I am talking about elves as race)
?Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.SakSak said:What, was it all that baby-eating that got to you? Doesn't it just make them adorable?scobie said:
"As the old stories say, elves are beautiful. Elves are wise. Elves are strong. They are enchanted. They are the Fair Folk. But nowhere do the stories say that the elves are nice...."
I still love Pratchett for writing that...
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.
The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.
No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.?
I think that's about right, but forgive my memory if some of it's wrong.
OT: Personally, I find that I can never really get into playing as an Elf on any fantasy style game. I've always found it much more comfortable to stick to being human, probably because being a human's hard enough, let alone being another race.
I read the Artimis Fowl books YEARS ago, and i think (in my foggy memory) the elves in it where more-bad ass, and more fun characters. More enjoyable than the stereotypical elves who come across as "perfect" consequently hard to relate to, and making them appear stuck up.Skeleon said:
Then again, some of the Elvish characters in games such as Elder Scrolls 4 Oblivion are quite fun and amusing- take Glathir for exhample.
The thing with Tolkien elves, and many other types of fantasy elves. They are always past there prime. The general fantasy elf is of a race that is in decline, slowly dieing off, as they are the oldest race, and already developed many thousands of years ago. They have a level of technology and magic that works with nature rather then againsts it. (Unlike humans and dwarfs that bend nature to there will, or just destroy it for progress)
This is why most elves are shown as arrogant, because they view other races as primative so they must be less worthy then an elf. I can see your view, and agree with it to a degree, elves are boring character a lot of the time, unless you look into there past, often before humans or dwarfs were around.
On the other hand, you have dark elves (WarHammer), that develope very nicely as characters due to all the backstabbing and two-facedness.
This is why most elves are shown as arrogant, because they view other races as primative so they must be less worthy then an elf. I can see your view, and agree with it to a degree, elves are boring character a lot of the time, unless you look into there past, often before humans or dwarfs were around.
On the other hand, you have dark elves (WarHammer), that develope very nicely as characters due to all the backstabbing and two-facedness.
Well, I'm fairly sure they started out as a representation of self-obsessed and stagnating western civilization. So yes, their society isn't gonna change without some kind of outside stimuli, that's their deal.
But that doesn't have any bearing on individual characters; if every representative of a given species, race or culture was virtually identical, there wouldn't be much to write about.
Also, not all elves in fiction are perfect and naturally yadda yadda yadda. Elfquest, a series which is pretty much filled to the brim with friggin' elves, have everything ranging from the "we are perfect" variant, to more or less degenerate tribals.
But that doesn't have any bearing on individual characters; if every representative of a given species, race or culture was virtually identical, there wouldn't be much to write about.
Also, not all elves in fiction are perfect and naturally yadda yadda yadda. Elfquest, a series which is pretty much filled to the brim with friggin' elves, have everything ranging from the "we are perfect" variant, to more or less degenerate tribals.
Dude, WTH he wrote the books before the nazi came to power. I mean... i know hes a god, but a time traveler too ??Kukul said:
+I live where he used to, and theres a street called "The Ring" here xD how cool??!
I'm personally a big fan of Warhammer Fantasy Elves, they've done a great deal to change and adapt to the modern times of their world.
Conversely I've always hated Dwarves because while the Elves can often seem introspective the Dwarves have always had a more direct arrogance and stubbornness that really rubs me the wrong way. I've always said there's no one as self obsessed as a Dwarf.
Conversely I've always hated Dwarves because while the Elves can often seem introspective the Dwarves have always had a more direct arrogance and stubbornness that really rubs me the wrong way. I've always said there's no one as self obsessed as a Dwarf.
I dislike most fantasy races, because mostly they are just exaggerated stereotypes of people.
There are beautiful talented humans, greedy ugly humans, noble heroic humans, vile malicious humans, wise humans and stupid. When you hear someone is a elf, dwarf, gnome, etc in a fantasy, you can predict what they will be like. A human you cannot.
Honestly I prefer a lot of sci fiction races more, the Taurens from Haldeman's Forever War + Forever Free (not to be confused with the Warcraft race) are a good example, they are very different from humans physically twisted and foreign in shape and form, socially as they are all genetically identical and mentally as a voluntary hive mind.
There are beautiful talented humans, greedy ugly humans, noble heroic humans, vile malicious humans, wise humans and stupid. When you hear someone is a elf, dwarf, gnome, etc in a fantasy, you can predict what they will be like. A human you cannot.
Honestly I prefer a lot of sci fiction races more, the Taurens from Haldeman's Forever War + Forever Free (not to be confused with the Warcraft race) are a good example, they are very different from humans physically twisted and foreign in shape and form, socially as they are all genetically identical and mentally as a voluntary hive mind.
I hate nale elves. They all look like girls, and are just generally annoying. Most female elves are hot though so they are okay
You mean those two lines about a messenger saying he got killed? yeah, that was exhilarating. The book itself was incredible, though.
I wouldn't respect that teacher all that much, The Silmarillion is a must-read-classic for a reason.
It's worth mentioning that in a lot of fantasy universes elves are the current-day descendants of a race that had marvellous empires in ancient times. They're only stagnant because authors avoid hosting their novels in the golden-age-of-elves period like it's the plague.
Hate the authors, not the elves, they're the victim!
OP: You need to read the silmarillion and reassess your opinion. The Lord of The Rings and The Hobbit don't do elves justice, while the silmarillion displays elves back when they were an active influence in the world. That was several thousands of years by the way, as opposed to the about 4 years LOTR spans.
I laughed at this, and laughed hard. As a jewish nerd (read: Jerd), I find this hilarious.randommaster said:
edit: quoting without the pyramid is hard work
The Silmarillion. It's not entertainment, it's background material that could be used to make quite a few stories, but in itself there's no narrative to speak of. It's just the history of the world of Middle Earth. It's interesting in it's own way, but it's not...a story.
