Poll: Why is it that some Americans believe they won the war of 1812?

[Mordor's Missionary]

I've lived in America all of my life, and in 8th grade was taught about the war of 1812. The way it was taught to me was from the standpoint of my teacher, who was a huge patriotic asshole. Everything she taught us and our textbooks said was that we were considered to have won the war because we succesfully defended our country. Not only that, but we managed to do it fighting a four-front war with Canada from the North, Spain in Florida, the English from the ocean and the Native Americans from the West. I guess we decided since we defended our nation we would have won the war. By now, I've gotten all of my facts straight from the terrors of the public school system, but we think we won because every bit of text we read regarding it and all of our lectures said we did. If you look at it, we lost the war because we accomplished nothing and we lost our nation's capital.

 

[dududf]

Erm, wtf?

Just post a opinion not spamming pictures. and you don't know a thread is going to fail until someone comes along and acts like an idiot (looks at people posting pictures) Oh shit they already arived.

Learn to type right and then we'll talk about idiots, okay?
Learn to make non-biased, interesting threads and then we'll talk about idiots, okay?

Or you can contribute and not be an ass.

Just post, I posted it from my point of view adn from ym information and i'm trying to figure out WHAT happend, hell look at the poll options, I included I have my facts wrong. I posted what I knew. this thread was made so I can clarrify for myself, because i'm perplexed as to what happend. Don't knock me on typing, or grammer, as it is the thoughts i'm trying to convey that you should focus on instead of being some Grammer nazi.

Also posting pictures and saying "[/thread]" or flame bait, is being idiotic.

You know what grammar is for? For helping you convey the thoughts you're trying to express.
Imagine that.
<spoiler=Here's what happened in the War of 1812>On to Canada over Land and Lakes
1. American troops were weak and scared
2. The US should have captured Canada, but the war plan was poor
3. The Americans instead tried to invade Canada from Detroit, Niagara, and Lake Champlain-all
were beaten back by the Canadians.
4. The Americans then attacked by sea and were more successful - "Old Ironsides"
5. Oliver Hazard Perry captured a British fleet in Lake Erie.
6. Battle of the Thames (1813) - General Harrison's army overtook the British at Detroit and Fort
Malden
7. Battle of Plattsburg
- a. The British sent reinforcements after the Napoleonic Wars ended
- b. Thomas MacDonough forced the invading British army near Plattsburgh to retreat on
September 11, 1814
- c. He saved the upper New York from conquest.
Washington Burned and New Orleans Defended
1. In August 1814, another wave of British came in and advanced on Washington
- a. They burned the Capitol and the White House
- b. American militia scatter - "Bladensburg Races"
- c. A Hurricane came through and cleared them out
2. The Americans held firm at Baltimore
- a. British canons could not capture Fort McHenry
- b. Key writes the Star-Spangled Banner
3. The Battle of New Orleans
- a. Andrew Jackson in command
- b. British, overconfident, lost 2,000 men
- c. Jackson becomes hero, and a wave of nationalism ensues
- d. Was fought after the peace was signed
The Treaty of Ghent
1. Tsar Alexander I of Russia called the Americans and British to come to peace because he didn't want his British ally to lose strength in the Americas and let Napoleon take over Europe.
2. John Quincy Adams and Henry Clay went to Ghent for the signing. Both sides stopped fighting
and conquered territory was restored.
3. The Treaty of Ghent, signed on December 24, 1814 in Ghent, Belgium, was an armistice.
4. None of the initial grievances of the US were mentioned
5. "Not one inch of territory lost or ceded!"
Federalist Grievances and the Hartford Convention
1. The Harford Convention
- a. Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island met in 1814 in Hartford, Connecticut for a
secret meeting to discuss their disgust of the war and to redress their grievances.
- b. Demands
- - i. Financial assistance from Washington to compensate for lost trade from
embargos.
- - ii. Constitutional amendments requiring a 2/3 vote in Congress before an embargo
could be imposed, new states admitted, or war declared.
- - iii. The abolition of slavery
- - iv. That a President could only serve 1 term
- - v. The abolition of the 3/5 clause.
- - vi. The prohibition of the election of 2 successive Presidents from the same state
(combating VA Dynasty)
- c. After the victory at New Orleans and Ghent, the Convention seemed petty
- d. The Hartford resolutions marked the death of the Federalist party.
The Second War for American Independence
1. The War of 1812 showed other nations around the world that America would defend its beliefs
(militarily).
2. The most impressive by-product of the War of 1812 was heightened nationalism
3. Sectionalism and disunity took a back seat
4. Manufacturing boomed (also because of embargos)
5. American culture and art is born
6. The army and navy were expanded and the Bank of the United States was revived by Congress
in 1816.

Thank you!

See now that's contributing and helps clarrify as to what I thought happend.

Also I'd like to add that grammer is not a huge issue, when I'm typing recreationally. Admittedly it's a bad practice but compare it with others you have seen and surely it can't be that bad.

 

[Berethond]

Erm, wtf?

Just post a opinion not spamming pictures. and you don't know a thread is going to fail until someone comes along and acts like an idiot (looks at people posting pictures) Oh shit they already arived.

Learn to type right and then we'll talk about idiots, okay?
Learn to make non-biased, interesting threads and then we'll talk about idiots, okay?

Or you can contribute and not be an ass.

Just post, I posted it from my point of view adn from ym information and i'm trying to figure out WHAT happend, hell look at the poll options, I included I have my facts wrong. I posted what I knew. this thread was made so I can clarrify for myself, because i'm perplexed as to what happend. Don't knock me on typing, or grammer, as it is the thoughts i'm trying to convey that you should focus on instead of being some Grammer nazi.

Also posting pictures and saying "[/thread]" or flame bait, is being idiotic.

You know what grammar is for? For helping you convey the thoughts you're trying to express.
Imagine that.
<spoiler=Here's what happened in the War of 1812>On to Canada over Land and Lakes
1. American troops were weak and scared
2. The US should have captured Canada, but the war plan was poor
3. The Americans instead tried to invade Canada from Detroit, Niagara, and Lake Champlain-all
were beaten back by the Canadians.
4. The Americans then attacked by sea and were more successful - "Old Ironsides"
5. Oliver Hazard Perry captured a British fleet in Lake Erie.
6. Battle of the Thames (1813) - General Harrison's army overtook the British at Detroit and Fort
Malden
7. Battle of Plattsburg
- a. The British sent reinforcements after the Napoleonic Wars ended
- b. Thomas MacDonough forced the invading British army near Plattsburgh to retreat on
September 11, 1814
- c. He saved the upper New York from conquest.
Washington Burned and New Orleans Defended
1. In August 1814, another wave of British came in and advanced on Washington
- a. They burned the Capitol and the White House
- b. American militia scatter - "Bladensburg Races"
- c. A Hurricane came through and cleared them out
2. The Americans held firm at Baltimore
- a. British canons could not capture Fort McHenry
- b. Key writes the Star-Spangled Banner
3. The Battle of New Orleans
- a. Andrew Jackson in command
- b. British, overconfident, lost 2,000 men
- c. Jackson becomes hero, and a wave of nationalism ensues
- d. Was fought after the peace was signed
The Treaty of Ghent
1. Tsar Alexander I of Russia called the Americans and British to come to peace because he didn't want his British ally to lose strength in the Americas and let Napoleon take over Europe.
2. John Quincy Adams and Henry Clay went to Ghent for the signing. Both sides stopped fighting
and conquered territory was restored.
3. The Treaty of Ghent, signed on December 24, 1814 in Ghent, Belgium, was an armistice.
4. None of the initial grievances of the US were mentioned
5. "Not one inch of territory lost or ceded!"
Federalist Grievances and the Hartford Convention
1. The Harford Convention
- a. Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island met in 1814 in Hartford, Connecticut for a
secret meeting to discuss their disgust of the war and to redress their grievances.
- b. Demands
- - i. Financial assistance from Washington to compensate for lost trade from
embargos.
- - ii. Constitutional amendments requiring a 2/3 vote in Congress before an embargo
could be imposed, new states admitted, or war declared.
- - iii. The abolition of slavery
- - iv. That a President could only serve 1 term
- - v. The abolition of the 3/5 clause.
- - vi. The prohibition of the election of 2 successive Presidents from the same state
(combating VA Dynasty)
- c. After the victory at New Orleans and Ghent, the Convention seemed petty
- d. The Hartford resolutions marked the death of the Federalist party.
The Second War for American Independence
1. The War of 1812 showed other nations around the world that America would defend its beliefs
(militarily).
2. The most impressive by-product of the War of 1812 was heightened nationalism
3. Sectionalism and disunity took a back seat
4. Manufacturing boomed (also because of embargos)
5. American culture and art is born
6. The army and navy were expanded and the Bank of the United States was revived by Congress
in 1816.

Thank you!

See now that's contributing and helps clarrify as to what I thought happend.

Also I'd like to add that grammer is not a huge issue, when I'm typing recreationally. Admittedly it's a bad practice but compare it with others you have seen and surely it can't be that bad.

You're welcome.
My history teacher has great notes.

Your grammar really is better than some people I've seen.
(You should get Firefox for the built in spell-checker, if you don't have it already. It's great.)

 

[Samurai Goomba]

Because nobody really won? Both sides were at fault, anyone who says differently doesn't know what happened. The British were seizing our ships well after the US had its freedom and the war over THAT was supposed to be over. I'm sure the US did something as well, but I always forget what it was.

The US didn't lose. Britain didn't lose. Therefore I assume nobody really won if nobody really lost.

Edit: Forget it, just read what Berethond wrote.

 

[lacktheknack]

Well, if it was "a tie" with "no surrender", then they technically didn't "lose"...

 

[chronobreak]

I don't think the OP really cares why we think what we think, because if you thought about it for a second it would be obvious; it is what we are taught in school. And most people beyond historians or history buffs really don't care that much what side won, seeing as how it was so long ago and nobody from that war is alive, and we haven't really lost anything. With the way you pose the question, you seem to be itching for an argument.

 

[dududf]

I don't think the OP really cares why we think what we think, because if you thought about it for a second it would be obvious; it is what we are taught in school. And most people beyond historians or history buffs really don't care that much what side won, seeing as how it was so long ago and nobody from that war is alive, and we haven't really lost anything. With the way you pose the question, you seem to be itching for an argument.

No actually I'm a extremely curious person and when it was brought up in the "biggest miliatry mistakes" thread, it piqued my interest how some people said that americans won, when I was taught that they didn't due to the fact that we achieved our main objective and they didn't complete theirs.

I'll put it blunt, (not directed just to you lol ) If someone brings up a semi touchy subject, it's not always flame, sometimes it is just curiousity. Also factor in that i love history.... *drooool*... if only I could remember half of what I read

 

[Flos]

You keep saying, "Soon to be Canada."

Canada didn't become a nation until fifty five years later, comrade. That's not soon by any definition. In fact, it didn't actually gain full independence from the UK until 1982.

No, the friendly Canadian's didn't beat the big ol' mean country hicks that were in America. You need to get over that, it's showing your bias.

They officially recieved their name July first 1867, from which is why I kept on saying "Soon to be Canadians"

And it's hard not to have bias, when you only have 1 side of information, and thus why I'm ASKING for the other side to clarify. Just answer and be helpful so Myself and others can learn history.

You want to learn history? Buy a book.

You're asking for opinions on a consensus you seem to believe . You are dead set on American's being stupid and not understanding how 'omg they lawst!' the war of 1812. The war was inconclusive. By an American standpoint, they won because they didn't lose anything. By a British-Canadian-Russian-Polar Bear-Whatever you want to call yourself standpoint, you won because you didn't lose anything. That is not going to change.

History is learned by the ego of the country. You're Canadian and it's clear in your posts that you believe whatever the hell you believe very strongly. You will not listen to reason, instead choosing to ignore discussion in favor of ignorance. You are not looking for discussion. You are looking for people to reinforce your opinion of Americans or the War of 1812 or whatever.

If you're going to encourage discussion while having a clearly biased point of view, nothing will get done because your own ego is in the way. You won't learn anything from this thread. You will look for people who reinforce your opinion/facts/whatever, decide their more correct than the opposition, and continue on your merry way.

It's just so very boring talking to people who want to be proven right.

 

[Berethond]

I don't think the OP really cares why we think what we think, because if you thought about it for a second it would be obvious; it is what we are taught in school. And most people beyond historians or history buffs really don't care that much what side won, seeing as how it was so long ago and nobody from that war is alive, and we haven't really lost anything. With the way you pose the question, you seem to be itching for an argument.

No actually I'm a extremely curious person and when it was brought up in the "biggest miliatry mistakes" thread, it piqued my interest how some people said that americans won, when I was taught that they didn't due to the fact that we achieved our main objective and they didn't complete theirs.

I'll put it blunt, (not directed just to you lol ) If someone brings up a semi touchy subject, it's not always flame, sometimes it is just curiousity. Also factor in that i love history.... *drooool*... if only I could remember half of what I read

The Americans did complete their main objective; they preserved the unity of their country and stopped impressments. (Though really, they kind of stopped on their own.)

The British, however, did not get their American colonies back.

 

[chronobreak]

snip

I apologize, it's just lately every day there is always a thread about how Americans feel about x, or what do people think of Americans, why do Americans do what they do, you know? I've never seen anything quite like it. It isn't your fault, and the thread offers good opportunity for discussion, I just wish people could handle living one day without caring so much about America and what we think, even though I consider myself quite the patriot.

99 percent of the threads we see around here that involve America are bashing it in some way, or just end up as vehicles to bash America. I should not be so quick to judge other users intentions when they make a thread about our country

 

[grimsprice]

People probably think that because Jackson won the Battle of New Orleans, even if it happened after the signing of the treaty. Neither side gained anything, but neither side lost much either, so that could be claim to a "victory", which is why textbooks still say that Vietnam was the only war America truly "lost". Regardless of the outcome, the war still ended with soaring nationalism and a lot of ass-kissing in government election.

http://faithmaps.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/andrew_jackson.jpeg

Funniest president ever, IMO.

Say what you want. ***** got us out of debt, and every president since has been digging the hole deeper and deeper.

 

[dududf]

You keep saying, "Soon to be Canada."

Canada didn't become a nation until fifty five years later, comrade. That's not soon by any definition. In fact, it didn't actually gain full independence from the UK until 1982.

No, the friendly Canadian's didn't beat the big ol' mean country hicks that were in America. You need to get over that, it's showing your bias.

Before you continue, first take a deep breath.

Now please look at my other posts, have I been freaking out at people who have told me other wise? no. Hell I even THANKED some people, who proved me wrong, but were very informative.

It's hard to NOT be biased when you only have one point of view from which is the REASON I'm asking about Americans point of view, so I WON'T be biased, You can only stop a biased point of view with information.

So calm down, read the entire thread before you become dead set on someone being, crazy or something. I'd like to add that I think I only used 1 acronym in my entire posts on this thread, and it was "wtf" at people spamming pictures saying " Flame Bait Flame Bait!" or "[/thread]"

Calm down, also It's 11:51 pm how the heck am I going to buy a book at this time? Factor in lack of transportation and no credit card and you have zip and since the escapist is mostly (I hope) comprised of intelligent people, I thought it'd be a good place to turn to ask a education question.

I don't see why you're dead set on me being an ass.

 

[tsb247]

http://faithmaps.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/andrew_jackson.jpeg

This is all I have to say.

This is the one and only answer.

I had to quote this because, as stated above, this is the answer to the original question (not really, he's just a badass).

I also feel as though I should mention that the War of 1812 was a bit confusing. There was no substantial gain made by either side. It pretty much ended with the British packing up and leaving while the U.S. was left to clean up the left-over mess and rebuild. The U.S. only won in the sense that they didn't really lose any territory.

I'm not terribly well-versed on the War of 1812 though, so I will have to do some more reading before posting more.

EDIT: I also feel a little insulted by the choices in this thread's poll. Seriously, the way it is put together almost seems like an attempt to flame.

 

[dududf]

*Snip*

Wasn't it Americas goal to essentially capture Upper canada? Also wasn't it the British's end goal was to preserve Upper canada?

Those 2 questions are basically what stems my curiosity. If those are incorrect then my views are incorrect

 

[Satin6T]

because we were still kicking brit ass after the war had officially ended

 

[Agarth]

As an american I know why.

Most americans want to kill themselves if America lost a war.

 

[randomsix]

http://music.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=music.popupplayer&sindex=-1.12&shuffle=false&amix=false&pmix=false&albid=10637951&artid=10974241&sseed=0&ptype=3&stime=24.763&ap=1&rpeat=false

That's Why Opion. Well that an the fact that the US obtained it's main 2 objectives... the
#1) The Ceasing of the British involvement in assisting the "Indian" question (British had been assisting the "Indians" in their raids in the Border lands).

#2) Establish of US sovereignty in Commercial Naval Trade & acceptance of US sovereignty by the European nations which considered the US a fun little squeaky wheel up to that point. This lead to the establishment of US Navy in a true sense and the power behind US Policies as the Monroe Doctrine less than a Decade later.

You may lurk like none other, but you're right. Winning and losing isn't about territory gain. It's about accomplishing objectives (one of which may be territory gain). The British forcing American ships into her navy was a major reason for the war, and it stopped as a result of the war, meaning at least one major objective was met.

 

[Berethond]

*Snip*

Wasn't it Americas goal to essentially capture Upper canada? Also wasn't it the British's end goal was to preserve Upper canada?

Those 2 questions are basically what stems my curiosity. If those are incorrect then my views are incorrect

No, no, the British were trying to take over the colonies again.

Otherwise, they never would have bothered with New Orleans or Fort McHenry, there would have been no need.

The Americans didn't really care about Canada (No offense) they were just trying to keep the Brits out of America by cutting off their staging points.

 

[dududf]

*Snip*

*snip*

Ahhhh! That clarrifies it quiet a bit! I assumed that when the Americans declared war, that they were trying to force out the brits, And the brits goal was to defend Canada.

Makes a heckuva lot of sense now

 

[Parshooter]

As a Canadian, I want to know how did we gain land?
The only take over I knew of was Detroit which we lost


PS; Don't get angry It is just what I was tought