Poll: Why is it that some Americans believe they won the war of 1812?

[BrownGaijin]

Uh, I don't recall seeing the Queen's flag flying above the flag of California.

 

[clzark]

I'm a history major (for now, at least), so I've read a good deal about it, and honestly to me it seemed like a tie.
one way of looking at it is many more american troops died than english. but, it's not like it was a halo match. a slightly higher body count doesn't mean too much.
on the other hand, america successfully defended it's country. but, in england's defense, you could say england made the smart choice by not trying to fight on the enemy's home terf.
my professer said it could really go anyway

 

[dududf]

As a Canadian how did we gain land?
The only take over I knew of was Detroit which we lost


PS; Don't get angry It is just what I was tought

I won't I won't lol, I don't bite

If my cruddy memory is working right, We had some battles south of our border ( america lol )and we won them and just held onto the land. Atleast I think so.

TBH I had history 2 years ago

 

[Jedisolo75]

There was the fact that Americans did stop British ships from impressing our sailors, as well as the fact that we made Britain recognize us as a real country, and so it was kind of a win for America, but technically you?re right, there was no real win.


And sorry, Canada isn?t a real country until they stop asking the Queen of England if their choice of Prime Minister is OK, even if it?s just a formality.

 

[Tdc2182]

Because we won the war of 1812. England tried to invade and they did not succeed. That counts as a win. Are they teaching you that in english schools. This actually interests me because I think the teachers of both nations are byassed. Like how they say benedict arnold is a hero in england, and Im sure that we had a lot of byass(sorry if I dont know how to spell byas) like how we ail to mention that we were an extremely racist nation back then. Plus, this was like 200 years ago. I thought we had all moved on.

 

[Berethond]

*Snip*

*snip*

Ahhhh! That clarrifies it quiet a bit! I assumed that when the Americans declared war, that they were trying to force out the brits, And the brits goal was to defend Canada.

Makes a heckuva lot of sense now

They were trying to force out the Brits.
The Brits that were encamped on American soil in the western frontier, as had been since 1776.

But hey, the more you know!

 

[Tdc2182]

After seeing some interesting comments on another thread, I decided to start one dedicated to this. I'd also like to add that History is not my Forte, but I have a general idea of what happens.

BEFORE YOU POST ON ANYTHING INCORRECT IF YOU SAY "YOU TARD YOU HAVE IT WRONG YOU RETARD" YOU ARE A TROLL AND I RECCOMEND EVERYONE REPORTS SAID USERS. If you are going to correct this information, say what and why Not you idiot you have it all wrong. Be polite as this is intended to be a honest discussion.

Please note I'm refferring to the British forces in the area as Canadians, mainly due to the fact that their childrens children will probably become canadian.

Now from what I can personally remember There was a big kerfuffle when the British had the napolean wars, and the US was helping out the French, and thus the British put a trade policy on US of some sort. US Dclared war, and tried to push the british out of America, and eventually out of Canada (Soon to be canada.... ) And then after British finished it's job with the French, they dropped the trade thing on the USA, but funny thing is that the USA didn't succeed at all in Canada, they didn't accomplish their main objective where as the British did, that being defend Canada. Any ways I was not aware of the entire situation, and thus I called upon the internet to help. I'd also like to add that if USA did win The nCanada would be a part of the USA

A person asked a similar question as I and he/she explains what happend.

Spoiler

I'm curious why so many Americans think the War of 1812 was won by America. Is it taught in school that way?
In Canada we are taught it was a tie. If you look at the Treaty of Ghent, all pre war borders would be reinstated, and no surrender by either side. The treaty was mainly struck because the reasons for the war no longer existed. The short of it was that Britain was at war with France (the Naploeonic War), and the U.S. was giving the French assistance. So the British put trade barriers on America. Soon America declared war, and the War of 1812 begun. During the War of 1812, the Napoleonic War ended. After the Napoleonic War ended Britain no longer needed to place trade sanctions on America. This is what led to the Treaty of Ghent.
But if you had to go to the judges score card I would say Britain / Canada gets the decision.

America Britain / Canada
2,260 KIA 1,600
4,505 Wounded 3,679
4,535 Death from Disease / Weather 3,321
11,200 Total 8,600

At the end of the war Britain / Canada had gained 10,000,000 acres of American land, all of which was given back under the peace treaty.

And my favorite tit-for tat of the war. The Battle of York was fought on April 27th, 1813. It was a raid by the Americans on the city of York (present day Toronto), the Americans forces outnumbered the local forces by over a two to one margin. The British commander soon called for a retreat of his forces, on his way out he had one of his own ships set on fire and blew up his ammo stockhouse, this may have been the cause for the American troops to loot the city and set some buildings on fire. Although the City of York suffered a great amount of property damage, the Americans suffered much greater casualty numbers.
Most would consider the Burning of Washington retaliation for the Battle of York. The Burning of Washington occured on August 24th, 1814. 4,250 British Soldiers marched into an undefended American capital, they were met with almost no risistence (only one family tried to fight them off). The British commander knew he did not have enough forces to hold the city (pretty smart knew how hard it is to occupy foreign soil). Sohe ordered his soldiers to cause as much damage to the city as possible, they burned down many buildings including, the White House and the Capital Building. There were no casualties on either side during the Burning of Washington, although the British forces did suffer from several deaths due to weather.

The War of 1812 was fought for reasons that disolved during its coarse. Neither side made any gains from the other after the peace treaty. Both sides had victories and defeat. Neither side was in any possition to surrender at the end of the war.
It should also be noted that all sides involved benefitted from this war (except for France). America gained pride and unity in its nation after going to war with Britain twice without defeat. Britain was able to defeat France, after taking away American assistance to the French. And Canada gained a bitof its identity, this war helped unite Canada as a country, independent of Britain.

So I ask again, why do so many Americans think that the War of 1812 was a victory for America?

Just looking at that it looks like we won, and it's confusing me greatly.


So I ask you Escapists, Why is it that some Americans believe that their Country won the war of 1812?

Credit goes to "super ryan" for making the spoiler article. It's not mine I'm using as a very large example to reinforce my idea.


Thanks for posting and reading, and keep the trolls under the bridge, and please inform me as to errors in history, as I'd like to personally know what happened.

Change a poll to America did win.

 

[Weaver]

it's showing your bias.

Blatant irony hurts so badly sometimes.

 

[Tdc2182]

Well this thread is bound to fail..
But If you invade a country, and then leave that country with no gain, you lost.
So sure, America may not haven "Won" anything, but they defended their country against an attacking force, which left with nothing, that seems closer to a victory than a loss.

It's the Vietnam of the 1800s.

This accept add that both nations are biassed.

 

[Fire Daemon]

I'm pretty sure the Russians won. That's why Tchaikovsky wrote the 1812 Overture. Yeah...

Yeah, I always think of Napoleon's march to Moscow when I think of 'The War of 1812'. While America VS Canada might be a big deal for the Americans and Canadians I don't think the rest of the world cares. It seems to me like a pathetic squabble that achieved nothing very little. It may have assisted Britain against France slightly but I would say that Napoleon losing the vast majority of his Grande Armee in the Russian snow helped Britain much more.

Also, Napoleon's March on Moscow resulted in 'War and Peace', which is considered one of the best books EVAR!!1! by some, being written. It also resulted in the 1812 Overture (written in 1882 for the 70th anniversary of the war) which would have been better had not hundreds of thousands of people died! It's a little bit hard to enjoy a song when you know that it's celebrating the death and suffering of thousands of people.

 

[Bat Vader]

We didn't win the war of 1812 though. No one did. It was all a big stalemate.

 

[gigastrike]

We did beat you out of our country. That's something.

 

[jakkuss]

We declared war on the British for pretty much no good reason. They then came over and kicked our ass by every measure possible to rate ass-kickery (including burning our capitol). Then they left. Sounds pretty much like mission accomplished on their part.

 

[MajoraPersona]

Well, here's my understanding of the war:

The War of 1812 resulted due to several British policies during the campaign against Napoleon which directly affected America. This incited America to attack the nearby British colonies of Upper and Lower Canada. However, the British soldiers were able to hold off most assaults.

At some point, the British, the Colonists, and the Natives went on the offensive, taking several areas, though neither side really gained much ground.

At the end of the war, both sides decided to return to the status quo, and they all lived happily ever after. Except the natives, who didn't get their own country.

The end.

It was a tie that left everyone a winner: The Americans got to live a little longer; the Colonists got to form their own country to discourage future invasions, the British got on friendly terms with its former colony, and the Natives... Oh, right. Ah well, maybe next time.

 

[Hallow'sEve]

Successfully defending your country isn't a "loss", it's the opposite

 

[GradonSilverton]

http://music.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=music.popupplayer&sindex=-1.12&shuffle=false&amix=false&pmix=false&albid=10637951&artid=10974241&sseed=0&ptype=3&stime=24.763&ap=1&rpeat=false

That's Why Opion. Well that an the fact that the US obtained it's main 2 objectives... the
#1) The Ceasing of the British involvement in assisting the "Indian" question (British had been assisting the "Indians" in their raids in the Border lands).

#2) Establish of US sovereignty in Commercial Naval Trade & acceptance of US sovereignty by the European nations which considered the US a fun little squeaky wheel up to that point. This lead to the establishment of US Navy in a true sense and the power behind US Policies as the Monroe Doctrine less than a Decade later.

You may lurk like none other, but you're right. Winning and losing isn't about territory gain. It's about accomplishing objectives (one of which may be territory gain). The British forcing American ships into her navy was a major reason for the war, and it stopped as a result of the war, meaning at least one major objective was met.

Thank you... It takes a good bit to end the lurking... and I was all over this thread.

The issue I see with this thread is that people want a Winner in a war to be a "Black & White" thing... which it rarely is. Most are focusing on "an attempted land grab" by one side or the other, which just was not the goal of either side in the whole of the war. In reality, the only true loosers were Native American's as they lost their last true ally in the British as they no longer had a use (and "use" is the perfect word) for them. The only actuall Land gain occured in Alabama with the US taking land from Spain. Ultimatly, the War of 1812 was a giant cobblestone in the pathway of the US becoming the power it became.

 

[Dancingman]

It was a draw, the British burned down the White House and repulsed the invasion of Canada, but we dominated on the naval front and held out in defenses of both Baltimore and New Orleans. Britain got out because of the bigger conflict in Europe, the treaty was signed, and America came out pretty well for it, with a rising sense of nationalism and a reaffirmation of its right to exist.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

You keep saying, "Soon to be Canada."

Canada didn't become a nation until fifty five years later, comrade. That's not soon by any definition. In fact, it didn't actually gain full independence from the UK until 1982.

No, the friendly Canadian's didn't beat the big ol' mean country hicks that were in America. You need to get over that, it's showing your bias.

As far as I'm concerned we did.

 

[Dancingman]

Erm, wtf?

Just post a opinion not spamming pictures. and you don't know a thread is going to fail until someone comes along and acts like an idiot (looks at people posting pictures) Oh shit they already arived.

Learn to type right and then we'll talk about idiots, okay?
Learn to make non-biased, interesting threads and then we'll talk about idiots, okay?

Or you can contribute and not be an ass.

Just post, I posted it from my point of view adn from ym information and i'm trying to figure out WHAT happend, hell look at the poll options, I included I have my facts wrong. I posted what I knew. this thread was made so I can clarrify for myself, because i'm perplexed as to what happend. Don't knock me on typing, or grammer, as it is the thoughts i'm trying to convey that you should focus on instead of being some Grammer nazi.

Also posting pictures and saying "[/thread]" or flame bait, is being idiotic.

You know what grammar is for? For helping you convey the thoughts you're trying to express.
Imagine that.
<spoiler=Here's what happened in the War of 1812>On to Canada over Land and Lakes
1. American troops were weak and scared
2. The US should have captured Canada, but the war plan was poor
3. The Americans instead tried to invade Canada from Detroit, Niagara, and Lake Champlain-all
were beaten back by the Canadians.
4. The Americans then attacked by sea and were more successful - "Old Ironsides"
5. Oliver Hazard Perry captured a British fleet in Lake Erie.
6. Battle of the Thames (1813) - General Harrison's army overtook the British at Detroit and Fort
Malden
7. Battle of Plattsburg
- a. The British sent reinforcements after the Napoleonic Wars ended
- b. Thomas MacDonough forced the invading British army near Plattsburgh to retreat on
September 11, 1814
- c. He saved the upper New York from conquest.
Washington Burned and New Orleans Defended
1. In August 1814, another wave of British came in and advanced on Washington
- a. They burned the Capitol and the White House
- b. American militia scatter - "Bladensburg Races"
- c. A Hurricane came through and cleared them out
2. The Americans held firm at Baltimore
- a. British canons could not capture Fort McHenry
- b. Key writes the Star-Spangled Banner
3. The Battle of New Orleans
- a. Andrew Jackson in command
- b. British, overconfident, lost 2,000 men
- c. Jackson becomes hero, and a wave of nationalism ensues
- d. Was fought after the peace was signed
The Treaty of Ghent
1. Tsar Alexander I of Russia called the Americans and British to come to peace because he didn't want his British ally to lose strength in the Americas and let Napoleon take over Europe.
2. John Quincy Adams and Henry Clay went to Ghent for the signing. Both sides stopped fighting
and conquered territory was restored.
3. The Treaty of Ghent, signed on December 24, 1814 in Ghent, Belgium, was an armistice.
4. None of the initial grievances of the US were mentioned
5. "Not one inch of territory lost or ceded!"
Federalist Grievances and the Hartford Convention
1. The Harford Convention
- a. Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island met in 1814 in Hartford, Connecticut for a
secret meeting to discuss their disgust of the war and to redress their grievances.
- b. Demands
- - i. Financial assistance from Washington to compensate for lost trade from
embargos.
- - ii. Constitutional amendments requiring a 2/3 vote in Congress before an embargo
could be imposed, new states admitted, or war declared.
- - iii. The abolition of slavery
- - iv. That a President could only serve 1 term
- - v. The abolition of the 3/5 clause.
- - vi. The prohibition of the election of 2 successive Presidents from the same state
(combating VA Dynasty)
- c. After the victory at New Orleans and Ghent, the Convention seemed petty
- d. The Hartford resolutions marked the death of the Federalist party.
The Second War for American Independence
1. The War of 1812 showed other nations around the world that America would defend its beliefs
(militarily).
2. The most impressive by-product of the War of 1812 was heightened nationalism
3. Sectionalism and disunity took a back seat
4. Manufacturing boomed (also because of embargos)
5. American culture and art is born
6. The army and navy were expanded and the Bank of the United States was revived by Congress
in 1816.

I have that exact same AP US History textbook, in fact I'm taking notes from it right now on the stuff that transpired after the War of 1812.

 

[mykalwane]

Americans in general are dumb asses. No need to explain it more then that.War of 1812 was not declared a war by Americans. So there is no win or loss because of that. America did give some help that backfire much like League of Nations. America isn't a bunch of hicks, we are idiots. Hicks are the people dumber then the idiots.