Poll: Why is it that some Americans believe they won the war of 1812?

[paragon1]

Uh yeah, I was taught that it began over the British impressment of U.S. citizens into their navy (at least that was the official reason, I understand that a LOT of people had been wanting to invade Canada for awhile anyway). I don't recall anyone ever actually saying we were the victors, at least not in the textbook. Hell, the only real significance of that war was that it brought about Andrew Jackson's rise in popularity.

 

[seryoga]

like americans won the war of 1812 the same way they won vietnam ive even met people who say oh we just sed fuck it we didnt lose

 

[Toaster Hunter]

We didn't win, but we didn't lose either. Nothing of importance was accomplished by either side.

Anyway, the whole mess could have been avoided if you didn't impress our sailors.

And yes, Andrew Jackson= /thread

 

[Eddy E.]

Look up Battle of New Orleans

 

[AlexFromOmaha]

I like how the OP can declare that anyone who disagrees with him is a troll that should be modded. Great display of intelligence there.

Anyways, the War of 1812 was an embarrassment to Britain. Britain's legendary navy was neutered and Britain lost its ability to manipulate its old colony. By sheer force of numbers, Britain was able to maintain several blockades and launch several coastal raids, but they could not maintain control over the seas themselves. The ultimate result of the war was not the Treaty of Ghent, but the Monroe Doctrine.

The territory returned is, really, insignificant. Yes, it's 10 million acres, but acres are small. We're talking roughly the size of Michigan's Upper Peninsula here, except spread much thinner. The reason that the US had so much more negotiating leverage in the treaty is the economic impact on Britain. Neither side really had the will to continue fighting, but the opposed public sentiment was stronger in Britain, which had been forced to use black market ships for commodities (especially food) normally obtained cheaply from the Americas, but, as noted above, many of those ships were confiscated by American privateers. Estimates put the ship losses at around 1,500 for Britain and 280 for America.

 

[lizards]

The war of 1812, canada's second greatest acehivement where americia learned not to mess with canada, or they would have to face the wrath of our lumberjacks and canadian lumber.

The americans beleive they won the war because they don't want to relive there greatest failure of all time.

you mean being a mostly republican-nation for a while?

 

[manaman]

This is awesome!

I like how this basically proves you feed a biased opinion to people and they will just keep repeating it ignoring all the other posts answering your basic question: Why the US is considered to have won the war of 1812.

The greatest part of this whole thread is that everyone who did answer this question did it fairly rationally, and was attacked by the OP, you know the guy that told everyone not to flame. Then everyone else just decided to cop out and repost one the OP's biased and fairly flippant explanations, in their own words of course.

 

[Altorin]

In the end, Canada and the US are still their own countries, so evidently neither side won, as that would have assured the destruction/reintegration of the US or Canada.

 

[Treblaine]

It was status quo ante bellum.

That means neither side won, so you are being just as bad saying "looks like (Britain) won"

 

[dududf]

*snip*

Thanks for ignoring all of my posts, and assuming that since I started a thread on a semi touchy subject I therefore must be a flamer or a troll.

Well if you would take the whole 5 minutes it takes AND READ MY POSTS you'd see that I'm merely learning, also I'm asking for the AMERICAN perspective from which requires opinions, something that'd take ages to accumulate that informaton. Where as if I ask this question on a forum I get a rather immediate response.

Don't assume that I'm a troll, I've been here for a while (Not as long as you of course) I know the rules, and I've followed everyone to the letter and as far as I can tell I still haven't even nudged a rule funny.

I was serious though, go read the rest of this thread then think about it. Don't immediatly assume stuff, it can make you seem like an ass from which I assume you're not.


*yawn* it's 2 am I've expressed my points, also I really like the world kerfuffle. it's awsome, and I try to use it as often as possible. *zzzZZZ*

Hope that sorts out that kerfuffle, feal free to actually be useful instead of calling troll like hey pop some history that wasn't mentioned! Preferably how the war started

 

[lleihsad]

I'd mostly chalk it up to a general disregard for anything that happened prior to the 20th century, and often the earlier part of that, too. That, and we tend to define "losing" in a way that keeps our record as boast-worthy as possible (e.g. "it doesn't count if we pull out/stop fighting").

 

[dududf]

*Snip*

Just read the entire thread, if you can't see the intended goal of the discussion leave. Also I can't see how it's flaming when everyone else is not reading then posting about something that was covered. That's just normal response to irritation.

There were a few though that did intelligently respond, and I've learned generally speaking what happend.

Also consider how long it'd take to get several Americans OPINIONS and their PERSPECTIVE on what happend, something that research would not yield as I believed that the history differs between the nations.

*edit* I guess I lied about sleeping *yawn*

 

[dududf]

*snip*

Thanks for ignoring all of my posts, and assuming that since I started a thread on a semi touchy subject I therefore must be a flamer or a troll.

Never called you a flamer or a troll. Just pointed out how you basically dumped a load of flamer fuel into the forums.

Huh I assumed that the Escapists, were mature enough to handle a proper discussion, it's not everyday you can have good discussions, that isn't plauged with fanboys, versus, and TWSS comments. =P

Though, I'd still prefer if you read my previous posts, as it showed show that other then the topic I've done nothing to contribute to the flames, and if anything have been trying to remove the flames (or lower it to a simmer )

 

[manaman]

*Snip*

Just read the entire thread, if you can't see the intended goal of the discussion leave. Also I can't see how it's flaming when everyone else is not reading then posting about something that was covered. That's just normal response to irritation.

There were a few though that did intelligently respond, and I've learned generally speaking what happend.

Also consider how long it'd take to get several Americans OPINIONS and their PERSPECTIVE on what happend, something that research would not yield as I believed that the history differs between the nations.

*edit* I guess I lied about sleeping *yawn*

Had you had actually wanted everyones opinion you would not have fed them the lines you wanted to hear and attacked anyone who actually knows what they are talking about. You can keep deluding yourself that you came for opinions, if you want. I can see that you have a biased viewpoint that sticks out like a sore thumb. You didn't want opinions you wanted confirmation, anything else happens and you seem like an impudent child sticking his fingers in his ears and then screaming at the other party once they finish talking.

See this is one of those sticky situations. I know that I can simply say that you are ripping into everyone who has a differing opinion then you. Which you really kinda are. Then your recourse is to try and defend your self. Since you seem to only seem to have a passive aggressive response mode, and hostile response mode it will just look like you are confirming what I am saying.

But I won't, I only bring it up because that is another example of what I was talking about. I instill that idea in peoples heads by telling them to look at your post as if you are being hostile, regardless of your actual intentions the chances of them finding hostility in your response go way up. Same here. Had your bias been on the other side this thread would have looked very different.

So really buddy don't talk to me like your the innocent party being harassed here.

 

[OriginalError]

why textbooks still say that Vietnam was the only war America truly "lost".

America didn't lose the Vietnam "war" because there was never a formal declaration. The last formal declaration of war against a foreign power (and not an obtuse idea like poverty, terrorism, or hunger) declared by the legislature was World War 2. Everything else has been contingency operations on the sole discretion of the president.

OT: Since Britain essentially returned home and signed away everything in the peace treaty, how could you possibly think they won? I'm looking on my globe but I can't seem to find the land Owned by the British inbetween the United States and Canada... could you give me co-ordinates?

//J.

 

[fagballing]

I say: There is only one way to find out!
Let's repeat the war, from 200 year ago mind you, step by step.
Bomb Canada, burn the white house and sink some ships goddammit!

 

[Kontar]

How could they have lost when they repelled an attacking force who was invading and then chased them back into their territory? They lost nothing, but they didn't gain anything either. It wasn't really that important of a war as far as American History goes and is barely even touched on compared to the Revolution or the Civil War because it didn't have any real consequences for the nation. At the time the British were still sour at the American's for their revolution and the Americans hated anything British, it was just a big dick measuring contest that really had no political ramifications except the building of a new Washington. As far as wars go it was kind of a joke.

This.