Poll: Would Fallout make a good Co-op Free Roam like RDR or Borderlands?

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wizard_joe88

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Nov 12, 2010
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I think it would be something like borderlands, not a full blown MMO, you could have three other people join your in-game world and they could just run off and do whatever, of course, the host could be able to set options, like making quest givers and quest-specific characters invincible to the other players(unless part of the quest requires them to die) and the host could set PvP on or off. The only reason this wouldn't work is if a greif jumped into your world and destroyed a town.
 

carpathic

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Zaik said:
The survival in a nuclear apocalypse feel would be totally gone if you saw people in power armor every time you looked around.
Too true.

Though I have always preferred non-power armour myself.

Plus, it is necessary for that post-apocalyptic feeling (imho) to have splendid isolation. You need to be by yourself - that magnifies your deeds and also makes the danger greater.
 

Azrael the Cat

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Dec 13, 2008
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Fallout? Not at all. It's an awesome game, but it's too narrative to suit multiplayer. FO3, on the other hand, most certainly would suit co-op free roam, but that was a bit of a deviation from the rest of the series.
 

Cali0602

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Aug 3, 2008
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The co-op idea would be nice. Fallout is too atmospheric to support more than 3 or 4 players total, but I could picture a small fire-team sized group wandering the wasteland. Naturally the difficulty would have to be cranked way up to make 4 players necessary. But I'm thinking something along the lines of L4D2 meets Fallout...ah fun daydreaming.
 

Mechsoap

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Apr 4, 2010
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If it would be online the interaction between you and other players would have to be very limited, also spawn points need to be thought of, and VATS removed, and pip boy stop freezing time (can be a real ***** in mid combat, not having some time to take some stims), and the fallout universe would have to be individual for each partner. And we all know if you let someone join your game he is gonna kill every major person in the game.
 

Pirakahunter788

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Mechsoap said:
If it would be online the interaction between you and other players would have to be very limited, also spawn points need to be thought of, and VATS removed, and pip boy stop freezing time (can be a real ***** in mid combat, not having some time to take some stims), and the fallout universe would have to be individual for each partner. And we all know if you let someone join your game he is gonna kill every major person in the game.
You do realize you can map stims to a certain button, instead of using the pipboy all the time?
Then again, who doesn't? I loved killing Tenpenny. I even made a save so I could kill him, Crowley, Elder Lyons, and etc for fun.
 

Mechsoap

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Pirakahunter788 said:
Mechsoap said:
If it would be online the interaction between you and other players would have to be very limited, also spawn points need to be thought of, and VATS removed, and pip boy stop freezing time (can be a real ***** in mid combat, not having some time to take some stims), and the fallout universe would have to be individual for each partner. And we all know if you let someone join your game he is gonna kill every major person in the game.
You do realize you can map stims to a certain button, instead of using the pipboy all the time?
Then again, who doesn't? I loved killing Tenpenny. I even made a save so I could kill him, Crowley, Elder Lyons, and etc for fun.
Example, You wanna get some drugs on you to survive the battle? To bad...
 

Lord Legion

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Feb 26, 2010
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One problem - LAND MINES
I can see some wiley bastard planting them all over the place and letting the new kids jump on them.

Just imagine some high level mofo laying these things all over the starter town.
would not be pretty.
 

Dastardly

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Apr 19, 2010
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Pirakahunter788 said:
When it comes to the MMO/Open Multiplayer format, this particular setting could work very, very well... as long as there's a clear vision going into it.

I'm seeing a lot of talk about "atmosphere," and I just want to be sure that we understand exactly what we each mean by that word. To me, it's maintaining the "post-apocalyptic tone" of gameplay, which hinges entirely on two principles that must be present in order for the game to work right--scarcity and entropy. Each of these also introduces separate challenges, so we'd have to deal with those, too.

SCARCITY: We should have learned long ago that in an MMO, there's no such thing as "rare." On a long enough timeline, everyone will have seven of them. That means making something drop less often won't make it rare, and we have to use other ways to create the illusion of rarity. Here are some suggestions:

1. No uber weapons: This is the best solution for making something appear rare. If it's indisputably the best item, you'll see it everywhere. Instead, make the "best" items only maybe 5% better than the next best--enough for an edge, but not enough to make it a "must have." This will encourage variety by allowing variety, which means you'll see the same thing less and less. (This will also ease the pain of #1 under Entropy below.)

2. If something is super great, you can't make it rare. You can make it expensive to use, though. Okay, so you got the epic motorcycle tank (or whatever). It gives you a pretty big advantage... as long as you can keep it fueled. In this way, everyone might have one, but you're not going to see them all the time. The same thing works with ammo for super-guns. The idea is to make sure the expense of using the item is enough that most of the time, people tend to just use the normal stuff.

3. "Bind on Pickup": Totally forced and undesirable mechanic. It's understandable, don't get me wrong, but it's a bad way to enforce rarity on an item, as it just comes across as arbitrary. It doesn't have the right feel to it. But it's an option, just the same.

4. Economic Control: In order for something to be rare, you can't just run off and find it on any NPC vendor. Low-quality junk food and water? Sure. The good stuff? If you make it readily available, there won't be any sense of scarcity. You've got to make players go to each other if they want the really good stuff. Whether it's crafted or looted, they'll have to trade with another player or go get it themselves. Scarcity isn't just about how much of something there is, it's also about how hard it is to get it.

But what's to stop a player from farming the crap out of it and then selling it wholesale on the Auction House (or equivalent)? Localized vendors. Borrowing from SWG, there was a terminal that allowed you to see what was for sale anywhere in the Galaxy... but you still had to go there to pick it up. This could be done for each "region" of the game world.

The next step is limiting which players can put things on vendors, and how much those players can put on the vendor. You could link it to Barter skill, for instance. You can limit it by the type of item they're selling (you could put 100 common things, but only 10 super-rare things, for instance).

The idea isn't to keep people from selling things. It's to keep the process from being too easy, since convenience eliminates scarcity. If a player wants to buy something, let them... but don't make it one-stop shopping!

ENTROPY: Everything breaks. This has to be the first law of a post-apocalyptic game. You can make it last longer, but you can't make it last forever. This means items must decay over time, and eventually they must break. In between, repairs can delay the inevitable, but it must happen. This introduces several problems, but they have easy solutions.

a. But I just spent all this time/money on getting my uber, one-of-a-kind weapon, and it's going to break someday? Will I be able to get another? See above--do away with the idea of the "uber weapon." That boss? He's using a shotgun. Not some super-magic shotgun. It's a shotgun. It might have a slight edge, but mostly it's the user making it so powerful. So when it breaks? Get another shotgun, no worries.

b. Why not just have the item stop working until it's fixed--surely you don't have to destroy the item! Yes, you do. Otherwise, it's not entropy. It's just a money sink. Those are important, too, but it's not doing the whole job. You can keep that pistol working for a long time, but eventually it won't be worth fixing it. Just get a new one. You could use the old one for spare parts, though!

c. Too much hassle having to replace everything all the time! There's often an assumption that "item decay" means everything will be breaking all the time. People forget that decay rates can be tuned to fit the needs of the population. Let's say a gun has "100 durability." Does that mean it has only 100 uses? Of course not. The gun might only decay in certain situations. Armor might decay slower or have different rules. Vehicles, it might just be certain parts that decay, not the whole vehicle. For instance, weapons might decay:

- When the weapon scores a critical hit (extra wear-and-tear).
- When an attack critically fails.
- When the player is killed.
- When a repair fails.

And the item's maximum durability might decrease by one each time it is repaired. Damage might go down with condition, too (as it already does in the other games). Look at all the different ways this process could be tuned to ensure it's "the right kind of inconvenient."

Overall

Because that's what it's about. Scarcity and entropy are inconvenient. They are limitations. Players generally don't like limitations themselves, but they enjoy challenges... and challenges rely on limitations. I think balancing these two forces would go a long way toward keeping the right balance, atmosphere, and tone for a Fallout MMO.
 

Pirakahunter788

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Dastardly said:
Pirakahunter788 said:
Snip
You make an extremely good point. These are great rules to help balance the game.
But do remember, we're not going on the idea of an MMO anymore. There's too many technical issues and flaws that plague that road.
It seems like a better idea to have a co-op based multiplayer, unless we decide to change the fallout concept, and mold it around the MMO genre.
 

Dastardly

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Apr 19, 2010
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Zaik said:
The survival in a nuclear apocalypse feel would be totally gone if you saw people in power armor every time you looked around.
Power armor won't be rare, no matter what, so let's just go ahead and put that aside. But we could make power armor seem rare by reducing how often you see it. To me, that means changing things up a bit:

1. Power armor provides protection and a strength buff. At the same time, it lowers perception and/or agility. This means it's not the hard-and-fast "best armor."

2. Aside from the base damage resistance, the other benefits are only provided while the armor is powered. After that, you're in a basically immobile shell. It'll reduce damage, but no strength buff, and you still get all the normal drawbacks plus reduced movement speed.

3. The harder you run or fight in the armor, the faster the power runs down. As your power gets low, the benefits might reduce slightly, as well.

4. Fully charging the suit requires it to be put away for awhile. How long depends on tuning and game balance.

5. Introduce an item for Power Armor users: a jumpcharger. This could be used to give your suit a boost that might buy you another couple minutes. These jumpchargers wouldn't be able to get the suit above 25% power, so you're not getting fully charged this way, but it'll save your butt if the fight's running a bit long.

6. Don't let folks change armor in combat. If you're caught off-guard, you can't just pop in and out of your power armor. Weapons, yes. Armor, no.

Just these changes, and Power Armor becomes one tactical option among many. Great benefits, but for a cost. Players themselves will make the decision not to be in Power Armor all the time, with no need to try to "make it rare" or any other useless tactic...
 

Akihiko

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Aug 21, 2008
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Yes, permitting you can go through the campaign together with your co-op buddy.
 

Pirakahunter788

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Akihiko said:
Yes, permitting you can go through the campaign together with your co-op buddy.
The details would need re-working, but it's possible. It would add a teamwork aspect into the game.
 

Akihiko

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Aug 21, 2008
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Pirakahunter788 said:
Akihiko said:
Yes, permitting you can go through the campaign together with your co-op buddy.
The details would need re-working, but it's possible. It would add a teamwork aspect into the game.
I was thinking something a bit like NWN2 or Fable 3. Where the main player is the one who has all of the choices, which you can discuss between you using some kind of chat, and the second player is ignored in the cutscenes. Seems to be the easiest way to allow it to work.
 

loc978

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I'd love to see multiplayer on the order of Baldur's Gate, where you can simply move through the single player campaign co-op with 2-4 people... though not so much online, as you'd wind up with griefers who enter VATS (pausing the game world) and just stay there... but it would make a great LAN game.
 

GameMaNiAC

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Pirakahunter788 said:
GameMaNiAC said:
Dunno about you guys, but roleplaying in the Fallout universe sounds fun to me.
Considering you have a New Vegas avatar, it looks like you're on the bandwagon.
Well, yeah. I grew up with Fallout games back in 1997. Fallout stuff makes me nostalgic.
 

Light 086

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Feb 10, 2011
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No. It's too much role playing and too little action, so there would be no point. You spend most of the time traveling and exploring in the game than you do fighting, and most fights people avoid by walking around. That's why it's better suited for single play. Also the stealth skill is pointless because humans can actually use their eyes to see you rather than the A.I.'s roll of the dice.
 

captaincabbage

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Apr 8, 2010
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If it had more shootery controls my girlfriend and I would fucking love it, just like we do Borderlands.

Seriously tho, I reckon if it was made by someone other than Bethesda/Obsidian it could be an incredibly fruitful idea. I know I would play the shit outta it with my gf, since we're both obsessed with Fallout.