Poll: Would you let your kid play (American) football in school?

[ecoho]

I have no issues with my son playing rugby, so not at all. In your version of the game you get to wear full body armour, in rugby, if a bit of your face/head falls off you tape it back on and get on with the game, unless you have blood on your top, and then you have to change it.

just want to point out that while rugby is just as physical as American football you cant hit as hard in it , so yeah rugby is more bloody but American football breaks more bones regularly.

OT: of course I would but them id also make sure he knew how to tackle and take tackles right, IE go for the legs with your shoulder leading and when tackled push your shoulders up and retract you neck. Its also good to note that high school and collage football have serious rules for contact injuries such as concussions, in fact if you receive a concussion in high school you usually get benched for 1 or more weeks. Professional football on the other hand has about 18 different loopholes around their concussion protocol so it really is up to the players when to stop.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

It is no more crossing the line than past sports being banned for being too dangerous. How would it be any different? a game < brain damage. I am sure many people threw fits when other sports were banned, but it was for the better of society long term. And no, we will not go extinct if we ban football. LMAO

That's a pretty dame slippery slop you've got there, since it can be used to justify banning literally anything one thinks should be removed from society. I mean god, better for society in the long term? No, it'll only brad resentment in a generation of children who will grow up believing that they where being denied the right to play a game they want to because of the spinelessness of their parents (which would be a correct assessment) and reverse the ban the moment they gain the ability to do so. I mean for the love of god, where does one stop using the "it's for their own good because of the risks" logic? Curling, basketball, ping-pong, ballet, hockey, lacrosse, golf, and literally everything else will (not might) get the same treatment of being banned for minors and eventually removed if no one opposes the flawed logic behind why it should be banned in the first place.

Banning it for minors would be a start, for adults, every single player who is injured should sue the organization until it closes.
"stellar species?' what does football have to do with how stellar our species is? It just makes us look like idiots, not makes us " more stellar". XD

What it has to do is that the level of risk aversion we as a species would need to ban sports like rugby and handegg would require us to have the bar set so low for what risks are deemed worth taking, that we would be stuck on Earth because we would never leave, and when the next excitation event happens we would go the way of the dinosaurs.

Sure some people were probably mad when cock fighting was banned, but you know most of society got over it.. They banned merry go rounds too, and damn it I loved those things, that doesn't mean it was a bad idea to ban it, they were right, even if I did like to play with them. These things happen, it doesn't set us back as a society, it allows for more to increase their chance of succeeding in society. If the results are less kids with brain damage, we will have more kids maturing that can help design the rockets needed to get us off the planet in the first place.

Wait, where did they ban merry go rounds? I know we have a few around here still.


More on topic though, gotta agree with you. It is good to have some sports, but it is rather reckless for some people to not care about the likelihood of injury. That seems to be what many are ignoring here, they are quick to jump to hyperbole and act as if the next step is never leaving your home. The problem is the comparative risk is starting to look high when it comes to football.

And people are really oddly insistent that football is important, as if it isn't replaceable. And that kids will really care so much about football. Somehow I doubt most kids care so much that they will forever resent their parents for it as some imply

 

[Redryhno]

Children cannot make their own decisions. That is why it should not be a sport for children given the risks involved. What I am suggesting is we ban it for minors, as they cannot legally consent and hold adult organizations financially liable for their athletes injuries.

Just gotta ask this, but...do you remember being a kid at all? You will find ways to hurt yourself no matter what you do unless you're asthmatic or confined to a bed or wheelchair, and even then it's debatable. Tag can get rough and end with tackles sometimes, wallball always ends up with somebody getting hit in the head at least once, hide-and-seek can get bad because of how much kids will crawl under houses and in the backs of neighborhood cars, and that's not even talking about the rural areas where you've got the bones of a building just sticking up in the middle of a field that nobody's inspected in fifty years.

You gonna keep kids from doing any of those too? Or is this just football? Because it's really easy to rip something in your legs on the basketball court, and fall on top of one another. Baseball is people throwing a hard leather ball at each other at 50-100 mph and hitting it with a wood or aluminum tube, and the only people with protective gear are around homebase and about the only thing they've got covered is their crotches and the sides of their heads. Tetherball, smacking a five pound ball on a string around a pole is in no way "safe". Kickball, dodgeball, even fucking running has alot of risks associated with it, from simple stuff like wet grass, to overrunning oneself on concrete and grinding down the bones in your ankles through that, to other things like other runners, bikes, and cars on the same paths.

Kids can and do make their own decisions, kinda how those nine months out of the year from ~4~18 are filled with more than quiet studying and pencil scratching.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I agree, cock fighting isn't comparable, ( was just on my mind after reading about some guys being arrested for it earlier they still do it even with it illegal, and yes it was accepted by parts of society and still is)


I was referring to this in regards to merry go rounds:
https://hifsaarshad.wordpress.com/2012/06/17/playground-merry-go-round-goes-extinct/

They have been removing the merry go rounds from playgrounds due to injuries and deaths.

Oh those things, I was wondering since the school near my place still has the classic merry go round. I don't think the new model is used because it's safer (I sure as hell know the ones I've seen are no safer given how often I've seen kids fall off), just that it's different and they need some excuse for the change.

I was referring to more children reaching maturity with fewer brain injuries, not just " reaching maturity". We want their brain in tact when they get there. Children cannot legally consent for good reason, their brains are not developed enough to consent, so why would we think they would be developed enough to consent to injuring them?

When it comes to what kids what to do for playing, they know what they want. It doesn't take a 25 year old fully developed mind to figure out "hey, I want to throw this ball". Having this issue put on par with consent is a massive false equivalence in terms of the complexities of the issues at hand.

Please do not attempt to tell me " children know what they want." I am fully aware of what a child's brain is capable of. Simply because a child may want cotton candy for dinner does not mean they should have it instead of a healthy meal. They are a child, and as a child, adults must make their decisions for them since they are not able to consent. No, this is about legal consent, as the child cannot consent to smoking, drinking, sex, legal contracts, or numerous other things, they should not be able to consent to brain injuries.
That is no more acceptable than this is:

 

[Zontar]

Please do not attempt to tell me " children know what they want." I am fully aware of what a child's brain is capable of. Simply because a child may want cotton candy for dinner does not mean they should have it instead of a healthy meal. They are a child, and as a child, adults must make their decisions for them since they are not able to consent. No, this is about legal consent, as the child cannot consent to smoking, drinking, sex, legal contracts, or numerous other things, tney should not be able to consent to brain injuries.
That is no more acceptable than this is:

Alright then, since you're going with that slippery slope, where does one draw the line? Consent on matters has different ages due to different levels of cognitive abilities being needed for the issues (of which, playing handegg is by far the simplest one which would be on a list made of it and the things you mentioned) what arbitrary age would it be? 12? 14? 16? 18? 21? 25? What age is someone capable of taking responsibility for making the choice to play a fucking game?

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Children cannot make their own decisions. That is why it should not be a sport for children given the risks involved. What I am suggesting is we ban it for minors, as they cannot legally consent and hold adult organizations financially liable for their athletes injuries.

Just gotta ask this, but...do you remember being a kid at all? You will find ways to hurt yourself no matter what you do unless you're asthmatic or confined to a bed or wheelchair, and even then it's debatable. Tag can get rough and end with tackles sometimes, wallball always ends up with somebody getting hit in the head at least once, hide-and-seek can get bad because of how much kids will crawl under houses and in the backs of neighborhood cars, and that's not even talking about the rural areas where you've got the bones of a building just sticking up in the middle of a field that nobody's inspected in fifty years.

You gonna keep kids from doing any of those too? Or is this just football? Because it's really easy to rip something in your legs on the basketball court, and fall on top of one another. Baseball is people throwing a hard leather ball at each other at 50-100 mph and hitting it with a wood or aluminum tube, and the only people with protective gear are around homebase and about the only thing they've got covered is their crotches and the sides of their heads. Tetherball, smacking a five pound ball on a string around a pole is in no way "safe". Kickball, dodgeball, even fucking running has alot of risks associated with it, from simple stuff like wet grass, to overrunning oneself on concrete and grinding down the bones in your ankles through that, to other things like other runners, bikes, and cars on the same paths.

Kids can and do make their own decisions, kinda how those nine months out of the year from ~4~18 are filled with more than quiet studying and pencil scratching.

The issue with football vs the other sports is to play it correctly means to have brain injuries. You are talking about " accidents' in other sports, and it isn't an accident in football to properly tackle someone. it is proper tackles and hits that cause the brain injuries, not just a accidents. Accidents =/= how the game is played. With American football it is how the game is played that IS the problem.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Please do not attempt to tell me " children know what they want." I am fully aware of what a child's brain is capable of. Simply because a child may want cotton candy for dinner does not mean they should have it instead of a healthy meal. They are a child, and as a child, adults must make their decisions for them since they are not able to consent. No, this is about legal consent, as the child cannot consent to smoking, drinking, sex, legal contracts, or numerous other things, tney should not be able to consent to brain injuries.
That is no more acceptable than this is:

Alright then, since you're going with that slippery slope, where does one draw the line? Consent on matters has different ages due to different levels of cognitive abilities being needed for the issues (of which, playing handegg is by far the simplest one which would be on a list made of it and the things you mentioned) what arbitrary age would it be? 12? 14? 16? 18? 21? 25? What age is someone capable of taking responsibility for making the choice to play a fucking game?

I would say 18, however, they would sign a legal contract to play , but in light of the known risks, the organization which they are playing for takes full financially liability for any injuries incurred by the player. If the player developed a condition years later due to an injury that occurred while playing for that organization, they would still be financially liable to care for that player.

 

[Major_Tom]

I don't think anyone plays handegg in my country, but little fucker can play whatever the fuck he/she/? wants.

 

[ffronw]

I do not get my information from the "media". I read medical journals and it is my job to deal with injured children, that is what I do for a living, so of course I am biased in regards to putting their health first.

Excellent! You should then be able to confirm what I'm saying, as there's yet to be any study that conclusively proves that football is the cause of these TBIs.

"you cannot possible claim that anyone playing football is unaware of the risks."

is EXACTLY the point I am making. Children cannot make these decisions for themselves and rely on their parents to keep them safe. If their parents choose to make poor choices and put their child in danger, it is their child, who is not legally capable of consent that pays the consequences for the rest of their life. We should not force children pay for adults mistakes. We need to remove American football as an option for minors until they are of age of consent to make the decision to risk their brain for themselves. They need to be able to make an informed decision once they are of age of consent, not before then.

Of course! We should probably also ban McDonalds for children as well, as fast food makes kids obese. Also, there's a non-zero chance that a parent might get into a car accident, so we should ban riding in cars for kids as well. Also, kids get hurt by lawn mowers and yard equipment, so no grass mowing or helping around the house.

I realize I'm illustrating absurdity by being absurd, but that's kind of the point.

I'm a parent, and I like to think of myself as a very responsible, well-informed one. If my son wants to play football, I'll let him. If he doesn't, then he won't. There is no such thing as a risk-free human endeavor, and I certainly won't hamstring his development by pretending that there is. If I did, he'd grow up like far too many kids are today, with no idea of what real life is like.

 

[Zontar]

I would say 18, however, they would sign a legal contract to play , but in light of the known risks, the organization which they are playing for takes full financially liability for any injuries incurred by the player. If the player developed a condition years later due to an injury that occurred while playing for that organization, they would still be financially liable to care for that player.

So basically you're saying you need more cognitive development to play a fucking game then you do to consent to complex medical procedures, to have sex, and to learn how to drive, and if you know where to do so learn how to fly a plane. Despite the fact that it is quite literally the simplest and safest of all these things, as well as the easiest to understand the risks for. 14 would be pushing it, but 18? Yeah, that's not happening. Ever.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I do not get my information from the "media". I read medical journals and it is my job to deal with injured children, that is what I do for a living, so of course I am biased in regards to putting their health first.

Excellent! You should then be able to confirm what I'm saying, as there's yet to be any study that conclusively proves that football is the cause of these TBIs.

"you cannot possible claim that anyone playing football is unaware of the risks."

is EXACTLY the point I am making. Children cannot make these decisions for themselves and rely on their parents to keep them safe. If their parents choose to make poor choices and put their child in danger, it is their child, who is not legally capable of consent that pays the consequences for the rest of their life. We should not force children pay for adults mistakes. We need to remove American football as an option for minors until they are of age of consent to make the decision to risk their brain for themselves. They need to be able to make an informed decision once they are of age of consent, not before then.

Of course! We should probably also ban McDonalds for children as well, as fast food makes kids obese. Also, there's a non-zero chance that a parent might get into a car accident, so we should ban riding in cars for kids as well. Also, kids get hurt by lawn mowers and yard equipment, so no grass mowing or helping around the house.

I realize I'm illustrating absurdity by being absurd, but that's kind of the point.

I'm a parent, and I like to think of myself as a very responsible, well-informed one. If my son wants to play football, I'll let him. If he doesn't, then he won't. There is no such thing as a risk-free human endeavor, and I certainly won't hamstring his development by pretending that there is. If I did, he'd grow up like far too many kids are today, with no idea of what real life is like.

I completely wish they would ban fast food for children. I would be 100% on board with that, and fully support San Francisco efforts to curb fast food advertising to children.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/30/san-francisco-happy-meal-ban_n_1121186.html

In regards to the numbers:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sports/concussion-watch/76-of-79-deceased-nfl-players-found-to-have-brain-disease/

Trying to claim this percentage is not a result of football when looking at the numbers from the general population in comparison would be silly, not even ESPN would try to do that, even when it is their livelihood. The issue isn't that they are denying this to be an issue, it is we need to find a way to resolve it. Now the NFL has already agreed that TBI's affect 1 in 3 players, now those are injuries that actually affect the players, that is not including the injuries that are not impacting the player. Many of those who have had injuries recover from them without the long term affects, however, having 1 in 3 that do not is a terribly high number.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/13/sports/football/actuarial-reports-in-nfl-concussion-deal-are-released.html?_r=0

Yes, many things in life have risks, however not many thing in life have equal risks by doing them properly. Playing football properly = damage, that isn't an accident, that is just how it is played.

 

[Redryhno]

The issue with football vs the other sports is to play it correctly means to have brain injuries. You are talking about " accidents' in other sports, and it isn't an accident in football to properly tackle someone. it is proper tackles and hits that cause the brain injuries, not just a accidents. Accidents =/= how the game is played. With American football it is how the game is played that IS the problem.

And the way you march in a non-hardcore military style marching band is strenuous on tendons(I could be getting these mixed up, I haven't followed DCI in a couple years), throwing your voice on stage harms your vocal chords, everything but excessively high quality paints have some degree of harmful chemicals in them, guess we gotta get even less arts supported in schools as well because kids have to be 18 and sign contracts to compete or participate, huh? Constantly jogging is not something we are supposed to do either, to do it properly does damage while helping just as much as not doing it properly. Football is far from the only thing where playing it "properly" encourages injuries.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I would say 18, however, they would sign a legal contract to play , but in light of the known risks, the organization which they are playing for takes full financially liability for any injuries incurred by the player. If the player developed a condition years later due to an injury that occurred while playing for that organization, they would still be financially liable to care for that player.

So basically you're saying you need more cognitive development to play a fucking game then you do to consent to complex medical procedures, to have sex, and to learn how to drive, and if you know where to do so learn how to fly a plane. Despite the fact that it is quite literally the simplest and safest of all these things, as well as the easiest to understand the risks for. 14 would be pushing it, but 18? Yeah, that's not happening. Ever.

Why do you need to be of age to consent to buy cigarettes? There is nothing showing football to be safer than smoking.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

The issue with football vs the other sports is to play it correctly means to have brain injuries. You are talking about " accidents' in other sports, and it isn't an accident in football to properly tackle someone. it is proper tackles and hits that cause the brain injuries, not just a accidents. Accidents =/= how the game is played. With American football it is how the game is played that IS the problem.

And the way you march in a non-hardcore military style marching band is strenuous on tendons(I could be getting these mixed up, I haven't followed DCI in a couple years), throwing your voice on stage harms your vocal chords, everything but excessively high quality paints have some degree of harmful chemicals in them, guess we gotta get even less arts supported in schools as well because kids have to be 18 and sign contracts to compete or participate, huh? Constantly jogging is not something we are supposed to do either, to do it properly does damage while helping just as much as not doing it properly. Football is far from the only thing where playing it "properly" encourages injuries.

you do understand non brain injuries < brain injuries right? You need your brain in tact to control everything else..
for example, my fathers brain injury he had to re learn how to swallow, speak and understand words. if the damage had been just a tiny bit lower, he would no longer be able to control his lungs to breathe.

 

[Redryhno]

The issue with football vs the other sports is to play it correctly means to have brain injuries. You are talking about " accidents' in other sports, and it isn't an accident in football to properly tackle someone. it is proper tackles and hits that cause the brain injuries, not just a accidents. Accidents =/= how the game is played. With American football it is how the game is played that IS the problem.

And the way you march in a non-hardcore military style marching band is strenuous on tendons(I could be getting these mixed up, I haven't followed DCI in a couple years), throwing your voice on stage harms your vocal chords, everything but excessively high quality paints have some degree of harmful chemicals in them, guess we gotta get even less arts supported in schools as well because kids have to be 18 and sign contracts to compete or participate, huh? Constantly jogging is not something we are supposed to do either, to do it properly does damage while helping just as much as not doing it properly. Football is far from the only thing where playing it "properly" encourages injuries.

you do understand non brain injuries < brain injuries right? You need your brain in tact to control everything else..

And another way to look at it is this. What use is a brain if your body doesn't work? I mean, other than a literal handful of people who have minds great enough to overcome that in addition to getting expensive help?

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Do you know how many people choke to death every year? We should ban solid food, and hopefully in the future it will come to be seen as barbaric as the Roman gladiators are now.

Don't forget that we need to raise our children in little cocoons of safety in at least 95% white communities and not let them outside to play with friends unsupervised or let them do anything that's not scheduled for them in advance. Keep them away from scary things like dirt and grass and fresh air, and especially mean old no-good bad-hurt competition, because they might lose, and we all know losing and getting hurt scars our children for good and prevents them from ever being complete people, (as defined by making art and completing a humanities major in an Ivy league college). We need to raise our kids in an environment where nobody wins and nobody loses because it just wouldn't be fair otherwise, and we all know the real world is totally like that.

Or maybe if we expose them to the damages of physical strength, fortitude of will, and male camaraderie they might become *gasp* evil misogynists or even who knows, join FRATS! The horror!

Don't you know that the goal of society is to make sure that no one is ever harmed or feels bad for any reason whatsoever and we need to accomplish this by any means necessary, freedom and rights be damned?

Choking =/= eating properly.
brain injury = playing football properly. Though what is the point in pointing that out when you are on a rant about misogynists already.. LOL

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

The issue with football vs the other sports is to play it correctly means to have brain injuries. You are talking about " accidents' in other sports, and it isn't an accident in football to properly tackle someone. it is proper tackles and hits that cause the brain injuries, not just a accidents. Accidents =/= how the game is played. With American football it is how the game is played that IS the problem.

And the way you march in a non-hardcore military style marching band is strenuous on tendons(I could be getting these mixed up, I haven't followed DCI in a couple years), throwing your voice on stage harms your vocal chords, everything but excessively high quality paints have some degree of harmful chemicals in them, guess we gotta get even less arts supported in schools as well because kids have to be 18 and sign contracts to compete or participate, huh? Constantly jogging is not something we are supposed to do either, to do it properly does damage while helping just as much as not doing it properly. Football is far from the only thing where playing it "properly" encourages injuries.

you do understand non brain injuries < brain injuries right? You need your brain in tact to control everything else..

And another way to look at it is this. What use is a brain if your body doesn't work? I mean, other than a literal handful of people who have minds great enough to overcome that in addition to getting expensive help?

Your brain is worth more than your whole body
http://www.hawking.org.uk/
Not to mention you cannot make that decision without your brain, as your brain does that, it is your personality, it is your "life."

 

[Zontar]

Why do you need to be of age to consent to buy cigarettes? There is nothing showing football to be safer than smoking.

Actually yes, literally every study on the effects of smoking cross-referenced with the dangers of playing handegg.

 

[Redryhno]

And another way to look at it is this. What use is a brain if your body doesn't work? I mean, other than a literal handful of people who have minds great enough to overcome that in addition to getting expensive help?

Your brain is worth more than your whole body
http://www.hawking.org.uk/
Not to mention you cannot make that decision without your brain, as your brain does that, it is your personality, it is your "life."

Again, what use is a brain, a personality, a life, if you are unable to use your body, express your personality, and live your life the way you wish while being an average joe?

Also, Hawking? Sorta one of those "minds great enough" people I was talking about.