Poll: Would you let your kid play (American) football in school?

[J Tyran]

More on topic though, gotta agree with you. It is good to have some sports, but it is rather reckless for some people to not care about the likelihood of injury. That seems to be what many are ignoring here, they are quick to jump to hyperbole and act as if the next step is never leaving your home. The problem is the comparative risk is starting to look high when it comes to football.

The risks are high with quite a few common sports, thats what PPE and a responsible attitude are for. I don't think anyone here is being blasé about the risk of injury at all, just recognition that if you start trying to insulate your kids that much you are introducing the risk of hurting their physical and mental development.

Cycling is probably riskier than American hand egg, judging by the number of deaths and serious injuries anyway. What about sports like Kayaking? A fair number of people drown or bash their skull in kayaking, or even just swimming? Would you stop them taking part in those sports? Where do you ultimately draw the line?

It's better for the parent and the child if you can accept that life and sport have risks and then try to introduce a responsible attitude about mitigating the risks.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Why do you need to be of age to consent to buy cigarettes? There is nothing showing football to be safer than smoking.

Actually yes, literally every study on the effects of smoking cross-referenced with the dangers of playing handegg.

No, smoking is bad for you, but has not been proven to be worse for you than football especially when you compare them side by side with the amount of time spent doing them. say you smoke for the same amount of years as one plays football, then quit both, While the risks from your brain injuries do not go away over time, for smoking:

"According to the American Cancer Society, smokers who quit before age 35 prevent 90% of the risk of health problems from smoking."

http://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/features/10-persistent-myths-about-smoking?page=2

The same cannot be said for TBI from football.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Do you know how many people choke to death every year? We should ban solid food, and hopefully in the future it will come to be seen as barbaric as the Roman gladiators are now.

Don't forget that we need to raise our children in little cocoons of safety in at least 95% white communities and not let them outside to play with friends unsupervised or let them do anything that's not scheduled for them in advance. Keep them away from scary things like dirt and grass and fresh air, and especially mean old no-good bad-hurt competition, because they might lose, and we all know losing and getting hurt scars our children for good and prevents them from ever being complete people, (as defined by making art and completing a humanities major in an Ivy league college). We need to raise our kids in an environment where nobody wins and nobody loses because it just wouldn't be fair otherwise, and we all know the real world is totally like that.

Or maybe if we expose them to the damages of physical strength, fortitude of will, and male camaraderie they might become *gasp* evil misogynists or even who knows, join FRATS! The horror!

Don't you know that the goal of society is to make sure that no one is ever harmed or feels bad for any reason whatsoever and we need to accomplish this by any means necessary, freedom and rights be damned?

Choking =/= eating properly.
brain injury = playing football properly. Though what is the point in pointing that out when you are on a rant about misogynists already.. LOL

Your "think of thuh childrun" appeals to emotion don't get to override the rights of individuals in a free society. You have every right not to subject your children to the risk but you don't get to speak for the rest of society who feel that the benefits to the kid's social, physical, and emotional wellbeing outweigh the risk. Guess who the happiest, most social, and best adjusted kids in my high school were?

Yeah, the football and other sports players. The unhappiest, least social, and least adjusted?

The kids coddled by overprotective parents and kept inside their suburban bubbles.

FRREDDDUM cuz ' Merica.. I got it....

It is literally my job to take care of other's children's health. That is what I am paid to do, and as such yes that is my concern. When I was in school the football team raped a girl in the parking lot, and no, I do not think that should be used to gauge the well being of students. If football didn't exist they would just be playing another sport with less TBI's. It isn't like this is in any way necessary to have happy, healthy well adjusted teenagers. We have invented many games over the years they can invent another that doesn't involve causing brain damage to your opponents.

 

[Zontar]

No, smoking is bad for you, but has not been proven to be worse for you than football especially when you compare then side by side with the amount of time spent doing them. say you smoke for the same amount of years as one plays football, then quit both, While the risks from your brain injuries do not go away over time, for smoking:

"According to the American Cancer Society, smokers who quit before age 35 prevent 90% of the risk of health problems from smoking."

http://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/features/10-persistent-myths-about-smoking?page=2

The same cannot be said for TBI from football.

Smoking does damage immediately, there is no ammount you can do that doesn't harm the body. I'd like to see a single study that shows that the moment you get on a field and start playing you get harm done to the body. There may be a reduction in health problems, but the damage is done, take one puff and that's it, you've done damage to your lungs.

Until playing football starts harming more then a marginal fraction of that of smokers despite how prevalent it is, there's nothing to talk about.

There's no rational argument for it being banned that doesn't step deep into totalitarianism that also justifies countless other things also getting the same treatment. The idea of banning football isn't one to be taken seriously, it is one to be ridiculed along with the many other ridiculous ones the past 20 years of treating children like babies and adults like children have. The sooner we can reverse this trend the better off society as a whole will be.

 

[Albino Boo]

Snip

At a conservative estimate there 50 million people alive to today in the US that has played school football. If your figure of 78 out 79 was reflected in the wider population that would mean there would be 49 million cases. This is clearly not the case. You ignoring the facts that professional players are larger, take heavier impacts more often that school players.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

No, smoking is bad for you, but has not been proven to be worse for you than football especially when you compare then side by side with the amount of time spent doing them. say you smoke for the same amount of years as one plays football, then quit both, While the risks from your brain injuries do not go away over time, for smoking:

"According to the American Cancer Society, smokers who quit before age 35 prevent 90% of the risk of health problems from smoking."

http://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/features/10-persistent-myths-about-smoking?page=2

The same cannot be said for TBI from football.

Smoking does damage immediately, there is no ammount you can do that doesn't harm the body. I'd like to see a single study that shows that the moment you get on a field and start playing you get harm done to the body. There may be a reduction in health problems, but the damage is done, take one puff and that's it, you've done damage to your lungs.

Until playing football starts harming more then a marginal fraction of that of smokers despite how prevalent it is, there's nothing to talk about.

There's no rational argument for it being banned that doesn't step deep into totalitarianism that also justifies countless other things also getting the same treatment. The idea of banning football isn't one to be taken seriously, it is one to be ridiculed along with the many other ridiculous ones the past 20 years of treating children like babies and adults like children have. The sooner we can reverse this trend the better off society as a whole will be.

Do you not understand that TBI'S can do MORE irreversible damage than smoking? I think it is not sinking in exactly how severe TBI's are or the long term impact and life threatening this actually is. It ALREADY IS HARMING MORE THAN A MARGINAL FRACTION. That is why everyone is talking about it.

 

[Redryhno]

FRREDDDUM cuz ' Merica.. I got it....

It is literally my job to take care of other's children's health. That is what I am paid to do, and as such yes that is my concern. When I was in school the football team raped a girl in the parking lot, and no, I do not think that should be used to gauge the well being of students. If football didn't exist they would just be playing another sport with less TBI's. It isn't like this is in any way necessary to have happy, healthy well adjusted teenagers. We have invented many games over the years they can invent another that doesn't involve causing brain damage to your opponents.

And in my highschool the Drama club beat a couple with the metal sides of belts and ripped their clothes off in the middle of the hallway between classes because they turned down both of the gay members because they were straight(equality ho!). Oh, and they basically got away with it because they were butt-buddies with our principles(one of the ones involved were also a kid of an administrator) and the victims got punished for being out of uniform. People are awful beings, banning football won't do much there. Small-town politics are so great I tells ya!

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Snip

At a conservative estimate there 50 million people alive to today in the US that has played school football. If your figure of 78 out 79 was reflected in the wider population that would mean there would be 49 million cases. This is clearly not the case. You ignoring the facts that professional players are larger, take heavier impacts more often that school players.

It appears you may have missed the link on peewee football being worse on injuries than the NFL I provided earlier in the thread. Yes, there are far more injuries among children than the adults. This is affecting more youth players than it actually affects NFL players.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

FRREDDDUM cuz ' Merica.. I got it....

It is literally my job to take care of other's children's health. That is what I am paid to do, and as such yes that is my concern. When I was in school the football team raped a girl in the parking lot, and no, I do not think that should be used to gauge the well being of students. If football didn't exist they would just be playing another sport with less TBI's. It isn't like this is in any way necessary to have happy, healthy well adjusted teenagers. We have invented many games over the years they can invent another that doesn't involve causing brain damage to your opponents.

And in my highschool the Drama club beat a couple with the metal sides of belts and ripped their clothes off in the middle of the hallway between classes because they turned down both of the gay members because they were straight(equality ho!). Oh, and they basically got away with it because they were butt-buddies with our principles(one of the ones involved were also a kid of an administrator) and the victims got punished for being out of uniform. People are awful beings, banning football won't do much there. Small-town politics are so great I tells ya!

No one said banning football would read his quote I was replying to. I said we do not judge all teenagers by " how football players were at his school". Thank you for proving my point. LOL

 

[FalloutJack]

It'll build character, AND it's fun! That answer the question?

 

[Pirate Of PC Master race]

Well, if they want to while knowing the full consequences, who am I to stop them?

Their life is in their hands...

 

[ffronw]

I completely wish they would ban fast food for children. I would be 100% on board with that, and fully support San Francisco efforts to curb fast food advertising to children.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/30/san-francisco-happy-meal-ban_n_1121186.html

In regards to the numbers:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sports/concussion-watch/76-of-79-deceased-nfl-players-found-to-have-brain-disease/

Trying to claim this percentage is not a result of football when looking at the numbers from the general population in comparison would be silly, not even ESPN would try to do that, even when it is their livelihood. The issue isn't that they are denying this to be an issue, it is we need to find a way to resolve it. Now the NFL has already agreed that TBI's affect 1 in 3 players, now those are injuries that actually affect the players, that is not including the injuries that are not impacting the player. Many of those who have had injuries recover from them without the long term affects, however, having 1 in 3 that do not is a terribly high number.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/13/sports/football/actuarial-reports-in-nfl-concussion-deal-are-released.html?_r=0

Yes, many things in life have risks, however not many thing in life have equal risks by doing them properly. Playing football properly = damage, that isn't an accident, that is just how it is played.

Actually, you're incorrect. The vast majority of head injuries and concussions in football come from improper hits. Helmet-to-helmet hits are illegal in the NFL for this very reasons. When I was playing football, way back in the dark days of the 1980's, we were taught to tackle with our head up. Guess what? That's the protocol for avoiding concussions as well. The NFL is pushing it and funding training for coaches all over the country. http://usafootball.com/headsup

The idea that 76 out of 79 football players have brain disease is ludicrous, and even in the link you provide, the doctor says it is. The doctor also debunks your "peewee is worse" statement.

To be sure, players represented in the data represent a skewed population.

?Obviously this high percentage of living individuals is not suffering from CTE,? said McKee, a neuropathologist who directs the brain bank as part of a collaboration between the VA and Boston University?s CTE Center. But ?playing football, and the higher the level you play football and the longer you play football, the higher your risk.?

Again, the studies still don't show that the brain damage is from football. Of course it's risky. Even without all these studies, we knew it was risky. Much like the players who play today, they play for love of the game, or love of the money they get from the game. But no one is playing thinking it's completely safe.

 

[Redryhno]

FRREDDDUM cuz ' Merica.. I got it....

It is literally my job to take care of other's children's health. That is what I am paid to do, and as such yes that is my concern. When I was in school the football team raped a girl in the parking lot, and no, I do not think that should be used to gauge the well being of students. If football didn't exist they would just be playing another sport with less TBI's. It isn't like this is in any way necessary to have happy, healthy well adjusted teenagers. We have invented many games over the years they can invent another that doesn't involve causing brain damage to your opponents.

And in my highschool the Drama club beat a couple with the metal sides of belts and ripped their clothes off in the middle of the hallway between classes because they turned down both of the gay members because they were straight(equality ho!). Oh, and they basically got away with it because they were butt-buddies with our principles(one of the ones involved were also a kid of an administrator) and the victims got punished for being out of uniform. People are awful beings, banning football won't do much there. Small-town politics are so great I tells ya!

No one said banning football would read his quote I was replying to. I said we do not judge all teenagers by " how football players were at his school". Thank you for proving my point. LOL

I read his quote, he said that the ones involved in what they wanted to do were happier than the ones that were kept out of what they wanted as a general rule.

And you just said that football should be gone and replaced with something else, I don't see how that is somehow different from banning it... You want a new, better, sport? Make it up yourself, stop demanding someone else do it if you're gonna go this route.

You picked something terrible out of your memory(or not, who knows) about football players to appeal to emotion, I simply did the same thing, neither of us know for sure that either event actually happened after all.

And you still haven't answered my last question, as you seem to just be jumping between talking points now...

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

It'll build character, AND it's fun! That answer the question?

You know what else builds character and is fun?
Woodworking! Swimming! volleyball! Baseball! Scouting! Softball! Kickball! Billiards! Chess! Robotics! and many other things..

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

Not until they were in High School. I'd want them to be old enough that they could more or less understand the associated health risks after I explained them. If they want to participate after that, so be it.

Soccer on the other hand, that may be mandatory for at least a couple years. Don't want my children wasting their best exercising years like I did playing vidya and eating pizzas. Also if they did decide they wanted to play more dangerous sports once they're old enough, they would be well prepared for it as they would already be athletic. Fitness opens up a lot of options to you in life, and sports are the least boring way to become fit.

 

[FalloutJack]

It'll build character, AND it's fun! That answer the question?

You know what else builds character and is fun?
Woodworking! Swimming! volleyball! Baseball! Scouting! Softball! Kickball! Billiards! Chess! Robotics! and many other things..

The point is that while all of those things have merit, I wouldn't remove football from the list.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I completely wish they would ban fast food for children. I would be 100% on board with that, and fully support San Francisco efforts to curb fast food advertising to children.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/30/san-francisco-happy-meal-ban_n_1121186.html

In regards to the numbers:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sports/concussion-watch/76-of-79-deceased-nfl-players-found-to-have-brain-disease/

Trying to claim this percentage is not a result of football when looking at the numbers from the general population in comparison would be silly, not even ESPN would try to do that, even when it is their livelihood. The issue isn't that they are denying this to be an issue, it is we need to find a way to resolve it. Now the NFL has already agreed that TBI's affect 1 in 3 players, now those are injuries that actually affect the players, that is not including the injuries that are not impacting the player. Many of those who have had injuries recover from them without the long term affects, however, having 1 in 3 that do not is a terribly high number.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/13/sports/football/actuarial-reports-in-nfl-concussion-deal-are-released.html?_r=0

Yes, many things in life have risks, however not many thing in life have equal risks by doing them properly. Playing football properly = damage, that isn't an accident, that is just how it is played.

Actually, you're incorrect. The vast majority of head injuries and concussions in football come from improper hits. Helmet-to-helmet hits are illegal in the NFL for this very reasons. When I was playing football, way back in the dark days of the 1980's, we were taught to tackle with our head up. Guess what? That's the protocol for avoiding concussions as well. The NFL is pushing it and funding training for coaches all over the country. http://usafootball.com/headsup

The idea that 76 out of 79 football players have brain disease is ludicrous, and even in the link you provide, the doctor says it is. The doctor also debunks your "peewee is worse" statement.

To be sure, players represented in the data represent a skewed population.

?Obviously this high percentage of living individuals is not suffering from CTE,? said McKee, a neuropathologist who directs the brain bank as part of a collaboration between the VA and Boston University?s CTE Center. But ?playing football, and the higher the level you play football and the longer you play football, the higher your risk.?

Again, the studies still don't show that the brain damage is from football. Of course it's risky. Even without all these studies, we knew it was risky. Much like the players who play today, they play for love of the game, or love of the money they get from the game. But no one is playing thinking it's completely safe.

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/08/americas-most-dangerous-football-is-in-the-pee-wee-leagues-not-the-nfl/279229/

We just recently started doing the scans, more data is being accumulated and examined, and yes everything does point to football thus far. We cannot just " pretend" not to look at the elephant in the room, we all know it is there and it would be dishonest to allow our love for a game to override our ability to see this for what it is. The bottom line in the end is children's brains are more important than our love for a game. We can make plenty of games that are fun that they will love to fill the gap, but we cannot replace their brains. Football is replaceable, the kids are not.

 

[ffronw]

It'll build character, AND it's fun! That answer the question?

You know what else builds character and is fun?
Woodworking! Swimming! volleyball! Baseball! Scouting! Softball! Kickball! Billiards! Chess! Robotics! and many other things..

I can provide similar examples for all of these things. Everything has risk, and football is no exception. You don't mention torn ACLs, broken bones, and other injuries, but they're far more prevalent than the head trauma you speak of. Why would anyone expose themselves to that?

Because they want to, and they have the freedom to make that choice.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

It'll build character, AND it's fun! That answer the question?

You know what else builds character and is fun?
Woodworking! Swimming! volleyball! Baseball! Scouting! Softball! Kickball! Billiards! Chess! Robotics! and many other things..

I can provide similar examples for all of these things. Everything has risk, and football is no exception. You don't mention torn ACLs, broken bones, and other injuries, but they're far more prevalent than the head trauma you speak of. Why would anyone expose themselves to that?

Because they want to, and they have the freedom to make that choice.

The other injuries < TBI though is the issue. We are talking about brain injuries here, legs do not control your personality, memories, ability to understand words, ability to swallow or breathing, your brain does.