Porn and the Art of Rape

[Revnak_v1legacy]

As a man lacking any notable degree of shame who has seen much of the worst that the internet has to offer, I'm going to have to say that yes, pornography is quite sexist. It is something that disturbs me greatly, as much of what is out there is quite obviously degrading and quite obviously fucked up. Personally I have this bizarre fetish about heterosexuals having sex and being happy about it, but I've definitely seen my fair share of torture, rape, and violence related pornography, and I find it to be quite wrong. Torture, rape, and violence are not and should not be considered attractive. Accepting different sexual desires should not be stretched out to extremes. There are certain sexual desires that do not deserve to be fed, end of story.

Why is that? More importantly, who are you to say where the line is or to draw it for others? You would have to have a better reason than "It's wrong," else you would have to allow others to ban such things as homosexual porn with no more a reason.

I personally find some forms of violence or implied violence to be erotic, no matter the genders involved.

If the act itself is quite obviously wrong, then the desire to carry out the act is also wrong. And where in the world did I mention banning anything? Assumptions that the other side will try to enforce their opinions legally only diminishes from arguments.

You implied a form of absolute intolerance here:

Torture, rape, and violence are not and should not be considered attractive. Accepting different sexual desires should not be stretched out to extremes. There are certain sexual desires that do not deserve to be fed, end of story.

Your argument against pornography with such things boils down to "I think it's wrong," and that's not a basis for such absolute claims. Many a person feels homosexuality is wrong and there opinion that it is wrong is no more a valid claim there than yours here.

Except their opinion is not as widely accepted or grounded in the obvious realities that things like rape and torture are so very obviously wrong. But, since I have to I will argue just why rape, torture, and violence are worse than homosexuality. All statistics show that consensual homosexual sex is quite pleasing to both parties and unlikely to be traumatizing. As for rape, violence, and torture, well I suppose one party is probably enjoying it, but the other is quite likely to be being traumatized and to not enjoy it, and the person who is doing the raping, torturing, or beating is quite likely to be increasing whatever degrees of psychosis they currently have.

I can't believe I'm having to make an argument about how rape, torture, and violence are bad things.

Well, your first argument is obsolete, because how common a belief is has no bearing on its worth. Your second also misses a key point--porn is a simulation. If someone enjoys and finds arousing the images of rape or abuse upon men or women in a simulated and unreal environment, who are you to denounce such things and use terms to suggest they should not be allowed to? If the parties are consenting adults, what they do together for sexual gratification is of no concern to you. If you mean to detest the actual acts of rape or abuse upon real people in real situations, your absolute and broad language is ineffectual, as you encompass content outside of your purpose.

I'm curious, would you tell me how you feel about one of my larger fetishes? I find women with bruises on their arms or legs, or with scars on their wrists to be very arousing. This is a form of implied violence, as the violence is not visible, but it is suggested there has been violence taken place.

Yet if they were to act on these desires they would be put in jail, and rightfully so. To a certain degree I can entertain the idea that such things are fine as long as it remains in a fantasy, but such fantasies can and are carried out, and they should not be encouraged to the degree that they are certainly, and possibly not at all. In the end, they are closer to wrong then right by a wide margin, and for this reason I cannot accept them. Now excuse me while I go to another thread to talk about my own bizarre fetishes.

Such desires could be based on any number of feelings. It is a desire that encompasses both the abuse of women and women fighting or doing some strenuous activity. Such a broad desire can't be so obviously tied to an obviously immoral or wrong act, so I personally have no issue with it.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

As a man lacking any notable degree of shame who has seen much of the worst that the internet has to offer, I'm going to have to say that yes, pornography is quite sexist. It is something that disturbs me greatly, as much of what is out there is quite obviously degrading and quite obviously fucked up. Personally I have this bizarre fetish about heterosexuals having sex and being happy about it, but I've definitely seen my fair share of torture, rape, and violence related pornography, and I find it to be quite wrong. Torture, rape, and violence are not and should not be considered attractive. Accepting different sexual desires should not be stretched out to extremes. There are certain sexual desires that do not deserve to be fed, end of story.

Why is that? More importantly, who are you to say where the line is or to draw it for others? You would have to have a better reason than "It's wrong," else you would have to allow others to ban such things as homosexual porn with no more a reason.

I personally find some forms of violence or implied violence to be erotic, no matter the genders involved.

If the act itself is quite obviously wrong, then the desire to carry out the act is also wrong. And where in the world did I mention banning anything? Assumptions that the other side will try to enforce their opinions legally only diminishes from arguments.

You implied a form of absolute intolerance here:

Torture, rape, and violence are not and should not be considered attractive. Accepting different sexual desires should not be stretched out to extremes. There are certain sexual desires that do not deserve to be fed, end of story.

Your argument against pornography with such things boils down to "I think it's wrong," and that's not a basis for such absolute claims. Many a person feels homosexuality is wrong and there opinion that it is wrong is no more a valid claim there than yours here.

Except their opinion is not as widely accepted or grounded in the obvious realities that things like rape and torture are so very obviously wrong. But, since I have to I will argue just why rape, torture, and violence are worse than homosexuality. All statistics show that consensual homosexual sex is quite pleasing to both parties and unlikely to be traumatizing. As for rape, violence, and torture, well I suppose one party is probably enjoying it, but the other is quite likely to be being traumatized and to not enjoy it, and the person who is doing the raping, torturing, or beating is quite likely to be increasing whatever degrees of psychosis they currently have.

I can't believe I'm having to make an argument about how rape, torture, and violence are bad things.

Well, your first argument is obsolete, because how common a belief is has no bearing on its worth. Your second also misses a key point--porn is a simulation. If someone enjoys and finds arousing the images of rape or abuse upon men or women in a simulated and unreal environment, who are you to denounce such things and use terms to suggest they should not be allowed to? If the parties are consenting adults, what they do together for sexual gratification is of no concern to you. If you mean to detest the actual acts of rape or abuse upon real people in real situations, your absolute and broad language is ineffectual, as you encompass content outside of your purpose.

I'm curious, would you tell me how you feel about one of my larger fetishes? I find women with bruises on their arms or legs, or with scars on their wrists to be very arousing. This is a form of implied violence, as the violence is not visible, but it is suggested there has been violence taken place.

Yet if they were to act on these desires they would be put in jail, and rightfully so. To a certain degree I can entertain the idea that such things are fine as long as it remains in a fantasy, but such fantasies can and are carried out, and they should not be encouraged to the degree that they are certainly, and possibly not at all. In the end, they are closer to wrong then right by a wide margin, and for this reason I cannot accept them. Now excuse me while I go to another thread to talk about my own bizarre fetishes.

Such desires could be based on any number of feelings. It is a desire that encompasses both the abuse of women and women fighting or doing some strenuous activity. Such a broad desire can't be so obviously tied to an obviously immoral or wrong act, so I personally have no issue with it.

So you would claim an entire group of people abhorrent in thought and condemn their inborn sexual desires because some people genuinely abuse others? Hardly a leg to stand on, is it? To counter, most people that abuse children are heterosexual. Should we look with doubt and disdain upon straight people because some in their group harm children? Of course not. The entire argument is invalid.

Though I'm not part of it, the BDSM crowed is very large and many, many men and women enjoy roleplaying differing levels of authority over one another. There is no real victim and everyone involved is involved willingly. There's never been any proof at all that violent pornography, let alone roleplay or BDSM, encourages or causes real acts of violence, also. So your attempts to claim the mentioned forms of pornography are "wrong" are... well, wrong. You dislike them, but until you can prove beyond your own personal taste why such things are bad, you cannot use absolute terms to imply facts.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Personally I have this bizarre fetish about heterosexuals having sex and being happy about it

You know, its odd, one of the best bits of porn I ever saw, was two women and they were in a balloon pit and laughing. Staged perhaps but the idea that they were having a good time, added to the experiance in some way......we need more porn where all parties are clearly enjoying themselves or at least acting like they are.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Personally I have this bizarre fetish about heterosexuals having sex and being happy about it

You know, its odd, one of the best bits of porn I ever saw, was two women and they were in a balloon pit and laughing. Staged perhaps but the idea that they were having a good time, added to the experiance in some way......we need more porn where all parties are clearly enjoying themselves or at least acting like they are.

That's quite easy to find if you look for it. Not going to say where, obviously, lol, but if you want it, there's a ton there.

Also... I hear Abby likes winters time... .com *cough*

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

As a man lacking any notable degree of shame who has seen much of the worst that the internet has to offer, I'm going to have to say that yes, pornography is quite sexist. It is something that disturbs me greatly, as much of what is out there is quite obviously degrading and quite obviously fucked up. Personally I have this bizarre fetish about heterosexuals having sex and being happy about it, but I've definitely seen my fair share of torture, rape, and violence related pornography, and I find it to be quite wrong. Torture, rape, and violence are not and should not be considered attractive. Accepting different sexual desires should not be stretched out to extremes. There are certain sexual desires that do not deserve to be fed, end of story.

Why is that? More importantly, who are you to say where the line is or to draw it for others? You would have to have a better reason than "It's wrong," else you would have to allow others to ban such things as homosexual porn with no more a reason.

I personally find some forms of violence or implied violence to be erotic, no matter the genders involved.

If the act itself is quite obviously wrong, then the desire to carry out the act is also wrong. And where in the world did I mention banning anything? Assumptions that the other side will try to enforce their opinions legally only diminishes from arguments.

You implied a form of absolute intolerance here:

Torture, rape, and violence are not and should not be considered attractive. Accepting different sexual desires should not be stretched out to extremes. There are certain sexual desires that do not deserve to be fed, end of story.

Your argument against pornography with such things boils down to "I think it's wrong," and that's not a basis for such absolute claims. Many a person feels homosexuality is wrong and there opinion that it is wrong is no more a valid claim there than yours here.

Except their opinion is not as widely accepted or grounded in the obvious realities that things like rape and torture are so very obviously wrong. But, since I have to I will argue just why rape, torture, and violence are worse than homosexuality. All statistics show that consensual homosexual sex is quite pleasing to both parties and unlikely to be traumatizing. As for rape, violence, and torture, well I suppose one party is probably enjoying it, but the other is quite likely to be being traumatized and to not enjoy it, and the person who is doing the raping, torturing, or beating is quite likely to be increasing whatever degrees of psychosis they currently have.

I can't believe I'm having to make an argument about how rape, torture, and violence are bad things.

Well, your first argument is obsolete, because how common a belief is has no bearing on its worth. Your second also misses a key point--porn is a simulation. If someone enjoys and finds arousing the images of rape or abuse upon men or women in a simulated and unreal environment, who are you to denounce such things and use terms to suggest they should not be allowed to? If the parties are consenting adults, what they do together for sexual gratification is of no concern to you. If you mean to detest the actual acts of rape or abuse upon real people in real situations, your absolute and broad language is ineffectual, as you encompass content outside of your purpose.

I'm curious, would you tell me how you feel about one of my larger fetishes? I find women with bruises on their arms or legs, or with scars on their wrists to be very arousing. This is a form of implied violence, as the violence is not visible, but it is suggested there has been violence taken place.

Yet if they were to act on these desires they would be put in jail, and rightfully so. To a certain degree I can entertain the idea that such things are fine as long as it remains in a fantasy, but such fantasies can and are carried out, and they should not be encouraged to the degree that they are certainly, and possibly not at all. In the end, they are closer to wrong then right by a wide margin, and for this reason I cannot accept them. Now excuse me while I go to another thread to talk about my own bizarre fetishes.

Such desires could be based on any number of feelings. It is a desire that encompasses both the abuse of women and women fighting or doing some strenuous activity. Such a broad desire can't be so obviously tied to an obviously immoral or wrong act, so I personally have no issue with it.

So you would claim an entire group of people abhorrent in thought and condemn their inborn sexual desires because some people genuinely abuse others? Hardly a leg to stand on, is it? To counter, most people that abuse children are heterosexual. Should we look with doubt and disdain upon straight people because some in their group harm children? Of course not. The entire argument is invalid.

Though I'm not part of it, the BDSM crowed is very large and many, many men and women enjoy roleplaying differing levels of authority over one another. There is no real victim and everyone involved is involved willingly. There's never been any proof at all that violent pornography, let alone roleplay or BDSM, encourages or causes real acts of violence, also. So your attempts to claim the mentioned forms of pornography are "wrong" are... well, wrong. You dislike them, but until you can prove beyond your own personal taste why such things are bad, you cannot use absolute terms to imply facts.

Sexual desires are not inborn. There, I said it. Proceed to condemn me as a terrible bigot if you want, but there is strong evidence to say that it is just as much a developed thing as it is an inborn thing, if not more so. And to counter your counter (as it appears you fell for my trap card), since when was heterosexual porn involving adults about raping kids? I'm talking about pornography about raping, torturing, or physically harming adults, usually women. The desires it intends to feed are quite clear. And that group, people who like torturing, raping, and inflicting harm on others, people who get pleasure out of such acts, those people are wrong.

Did I say BDSM? Nope, I said torture, rape, and violence. Consent negates all those terms, and as long as the pornography appears to be about that then I really don't have an issue with it, though I take little pleasure from it. BDSM is not the same as rape, torture, or violence, though I suppose that I am anything but an authority on the issue.

I suppose I should engage in a definition of terms here. Inflicting pain is not the same as torture or violence. Pain is a type of stimulation, torture and violence are much larger beasts. Torture and violence encompass any type of abuse really, and that is where I'm limiting them as well.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

Personally I have this bizarre fetish about heterosexuals having sex and being happy about it

You know, its odd, one of the best bits of porn I ever saw, was two women and they were in a balloon pit and laughing. Staged perhaps but the idea that they were having a good time, added to the experiance in some way......we need more porn where all parties are clearly enjoying themselves or at least acting like they are.

You'd think that it would be normal for porn to be about normal sexual behaviors, or at least some kind of idealized form of them, but it isn't. The concept of people actually being pleased by sex seems to be entirely foreign to these people.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Personally I have this bizarre fetish about heterosexuals having sex and being happy about it

You know, its odd, one of the best bits of porn I ever saw, was two women and they were in a balloon pit and laughing. Staged perhaps but the idea that they were having a good time, added to the experiance in some way......we need more porn where all parties are clearly enjoying themselves or at least acting like they are.

You'd think that it would be normal for porn to be about normal sexual behaviors, or at least some kind of idealized form of them, but it isn't. The concept of people actually being pleased by sex seems to be entirely foreign to these people.

Well that's just dumb, sex is awesome. Probably the most enjoyable thing you can do on this green Earth, it should be fun.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

Personally I have this bizarre fetish about heterosexuals having sex and being happy about it

You know, its odd, one of the best bits of porn I ever saw, was two women and they were in a balloon pit and laughing. Staged perhaps but the idea that they were having a good time, added to the experiance in some way......we need more porn where all parties are clearly enjoying themselves or at least acting like they are.

You'd think that it would be normal for porn to be about normal sexual behaviors, or at least some kind of idealized form of them, but it isn't. The concept of people actually being pleased by sex seems to be entirely foreign to these people.

Well that's just dumb, sex is awesome. Probably the most enjoyable thing you can do on this green Earth, it should be fun.

Exactly. It is so weird that an audio recording of a porno would be indistinguishable from someone having an excruciatingly significant bowel movement. Someday people from the future will look back and assume that at one point sex was a mixture of setting your genitals on fire and passing stones.

 

[itsthesheppy]

I suppose it depends on the brand you're watching. some can be, some isn't. There's no single brush that can paint the entire issue.

 

[The Funslinger]

It's a good job that I'm not allergic to hyperbole, else I'd be in pretty critical condition right about now.

I knew someone who was allergic to hyperbole once. Then he wandered into an Eternalnothingness thread.

Odin rest his soul.

 

[Psychedelic Spartan]

It's a good job that I'm not allergic to hyperbole, else I'd be in pretty critical condition right about now.

Speaking of which, would you mind getting me an ambulance? I thought I wasn't allergic to hyperbole. Quickly!
OT: No, porn is not sexist.

 

[Dags90]

There are people still talking about Andrea Dworkin? How...retro...

I don't take her very seriously. This woman believed that heterosexual intercourse was dominating over women, possibly irredeemably so. Sounds like a woman who has no idea of how other cultures view sex, nor is open to ideas other than her own.

 

[Loonyyy]

It's a good job that I'm not allergic to hyperbole, else I'd be in pretty critical condition right about now.

I am. Call an ambulance. Please.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

The women in those magazines are not forced to do anything, in fact they are paid to this. And based on interviews most enjoy their work. (Though they hate it when the guy doesn't "wash" before the gig)

I hate this dehumanizing women are sexual objects bs. My mother is the same way when I watched a tv show that had a lesbian scene. Seriously

You have your rights to do it or not. Thats not what this heavily feminist want. Its appears they want all women to be exactly like them.

 

[Vuliev]

Personally I have this bizarre fetish about heterosexuals having sex and being happy about it

You know, its odd, one of the best bits of porn I ever saw, was two women and they were in a balloon pit and laughing. Staged perhaps but the idea that they were having a good time, added to the experiance in some way......we need more porn where all parties are clearly enjoying themselves or at least acting like they are.

You'd think that it would be normal for porn to be about normal sexual behaviors, or at least some kind of idealized form of them, but it isn't. The concept of people actually being pleased by sex seems to be entirely foreign to these people.

See, that's why I stick to softcore. Pretty much everything about video porn is off-putting to me--it's just so fake.

When all you have are pictures and your imagination, it's a hell of a lot easier to make it about the woman than the man.

 

[Jonluw]

She's saying shaved women are a gateway drug to child sexual abuse.
Knowing that rape rates have gone down since pornography became easily accesible to the public, I think we can rest assured that this woman is just a nutter whose opinions can be safely ignored.

 

[Eamar]

As a feminist who watches porn, I'd be pretty hypocritical if I believed porn was, in and of itself, sexist. I'm sure arguments could be made that some porn is sexist, but personally so long as everyone involved has given informed consent I couldn't care less what they get up to.

Sexual fantasy is a strange, strange thing. You do have to bear in mind that the "violent" porn several have mentioned is not watched exclusively by men... Rape is one of the most common female sex fantasies (**DISCLAIMER** I am not in any way saying that women actually want to be raped or that rape is ever acceptable. The fantasy rape I'm referring to bears little resemblance to the real thing, and since the women involved are fantasising about it the sex they're imagining isn't really "rape" at all **/DISCLAIMER**) It's an extension of general submissiveness in sex, which is something that appeals to a lot of people, many of whom you'd never expect it from (I've heard that people who are sexually submissive are often pretty dominant in day to day life).

So yeah, porn is designed to fulfil fantasies. Some of these fantasies may seem unsavoury to people who do not share them, but that doesn't make them wrong. Just so long as everything is consensual. Can't emphasise that enough.

[small]As for myself, well... despite all my feminist views I'd be lying if I said I'd never been turned on by "rough" porn[/small]

 

[rob_simple]

It's funny how she doesn't comment on the objectification of men in pornography. Feminists like this give the feminist community as a whole a bad name.

Oh, and porn's just fantasy, designed for you to get your rocks off and nothing more. Anyone that actually watches porn and replicates those scenarios in real-life must be fucking insane.

You seem to think the content (images, behaviors and concepts, etc.) within porn inspire society and not the reverse. In my opinion, porn is what it is due to the public wanting it that way--porn doesn't tell us what to like, we make porn based on what we like. The same argument used against radicals that claim video games cause violence, more or less.

While it is true that porn is what we like, rather than the reverse, I don't exactly see an huge issue with that. Ask people would they want to take on a full building of terrorists/bad guys on their own. I'm guessing the answer would be "no". And yet, this was the basic premise of most action movies in the 80s and the 90s. The movies are as much inspired by our desires as is porn, but people want to see this not do it really. It's about fantasy.

Run tell that, it's the same way when somebody shoots up a shopping centre and it comes out that he used Modern Warfare to practice so now games are nothing but murder simulators.

These people always seem quick to forget that for every nutbag who watches/reads/hears/plays something and then goes on a rampage there are millions of people who watch/read/hear/play the same thing and then just get on with their life, completely unaffected.

People who watch porn and then go raping are already mentally ill.
People who read Catcher in the Rye and then murder John Lennon are already mentally ill.
People who listen to Judas Priest then kill themselves were already mentally ill.
People who play Modern Warfare to train for a massacre are already mentally ill.

The one thing they all have in common is that without any of their chosen mediums to guide or serve as a potential catalyst, they would have snapped one day anyway because, hey ho, they're already fucked up.