Preview: What's New in Dragon Age II

[TomLikesGuitar]

I'm going to say something that will probably offend Fumbleumble and several other people: If Mass Effect isn't a "true" RPG, I don't want to play a true RPG.

Then dont play RPGs it's that freaking simple. No that's not good enough for you, you have to ruin it for everyone else and demand that it caters to you the non RPG player.

No one's demanding shit.

The basic RPG formula is boring and old, and an extremely talented studio tweaked it slightly. The game sold ridiculously and I'm willing to bet MORE people who actually played it liked it than didn't. If you can prove otherwise (without anecdotal evidence), I'll stand down.

Maybe you should stop playing RPG's rather than ruin it for everyone else and demand that they NEVER CHANGE A SINGLE MECHANIC.

(BTW- Mass Effect is an RPG by the definition of the term itself and by the definition of the game theory term of 'RPG'. If you don't know what I'm talking about take a few classes on game development and then come back and argue.)

EDIT: Also, to someone who actually played the game, this

PS Mass Effect's combat is just a very shallow clone of Gears of War, but without an AI that is worth a shit and a difficulty system that only increases the amount of armor and health an opponent has. Mass Effect was shit.

proves that you didn't give the game a fair chance, and you just want to complain about it because you hate the fact that other people like it.

 

[Dr. wonderful]

Thanks for the great preview, Susan!

Too bad that this discussion is already filled with hate and trolling...

Hey, It's the Escapist, filled with idiots and witty wannabes losers depression and pessimistic folks.

 

[milkkart]

new in dragon age 2: suck, pandering to the masses and raping the corpse of the previous game.

 

[sheah1]

Am I the only one who would enjoy the combat if it was more hack and slashy? I mean, you can say that you prefer the old-school combat but come on, be honest, wouldn't you enjoy it so much more if you could just swing a sword or fire an arrow, rather than tell your character to swing a sword or fire an arrow then watch?

 

[Supernova2000]

I just hope the give the Grey Wardens more powers than a) having nightmares about a black dragon b) the ability to sense - and be sensed by - Darkspawn (which just leaves you back at square one) and c) a shortened lifespan.

DA:O was the 1st game I'd ever played where there was absolutely no benefit to joining it's own exclusive badass organisation!

You can kill the Archdemon?

And die yourself in the process, which also sucks!

 

[CaptainLudicrous]

I played it on the PS3 and I felt like combat was a cakewalk. Just tank, heal, and dps the enemies mages.
Great game though, I felt like the ending was a nice touch.

 

[Juggern4ut20]

In Origins, you were a nameless, voiceless hero, but in DA2, you are the silky-toned Hawke, a change that may be jarring to those who favored Origins's old school approach to characterization. Which, as Laidlaw tells it, is not that many players. "People generally hated the silent protagonist," he says,

Fuck you. That was my favorite part, everything said was something I said, and I took on the role of the Grey Warden completely. For me, Dragon Age was the most immersive game I ever played. But in DA2, I'm gonna be controlling a character rather than roleplaying as one. This might seem like a minor thing, but this is pretty much my biggest issue with the sequel.

Still, DA1 was awesome and I'm sure I'll love the sequel aswell. I was a bit sceptical when I heard they'd adopt a dialogue wheel like Mass Effect, but the preview makes the companion/rival system seem very interesting.

Completely 110% agree with this statement. Whoever thought the protagonist was "silent" does not have much imagination. Gordan Freedman was silent because he never responded or said anything, Your character DID say things in DA:O, you just had to read what he said and imagine saying it yourself. I can understand why people may prefer a more vocal hero like Shepard in Mass Effect, so they can feel like they are control a movie, but I do not think all games should have the same styles (or stupid response wheels for that matter) as other popular games. Where is the variety if every RPG tries to be Mass Effect? I loved the kick back to the old school with the normal dialogue options and the player created protagonist and am very suspicious of this new Hawke idea.

Also the whole dialogue wheel is probably solely implemented to make the game more appealing for the console players. I can't think of a single PC only game that uses that style of response. I also question anyone who says that a 'voiceless' PC takes away from the game's flow or feel. It's not like there was any 'voiced' PCs for the great RPG of old and those did not get bogged down in lack of flow or immersion.

 

[Velocirapture07]

In Origins, you were a nameless, voiceless hero, but in DA2, you are the silky-toned Hawke, a change that may be jarring to those who favored Origins's old school approach to characterization. Which, as Laidlaw tells it, is not that many players. "People generally hated the silent protagonist," he says,

Fuck you. That was my favorite part, everything said was something I said, and I took on the role of the Grey Warden completely. For me, Dragon Age was the most immersive game I ever played. But in DA2, I'm gonna be controlling a character rather than roleplaying as one. This might seem like a minor thing, but this is pretty much my biggest issue with the sequel.

Still, DA1 was awesome and I'm sure I'll love the sequel aswell. I was a bit sceptical when I heard they'd adopt a dialogue wheel like Mass Effect, but the preview makes the companion/rival system seem very interesting.

Completely 110% agree with this statement. Whoever thought the protagonist was "silent" does not have much imagination. Gordan Freedman was silent because he never responded or said anything, Your character DID say things in DA:O, you just had to read what he said and imagine saying it yourself. I can understand why people may prefer a more vocal hero like Shepard in Mass Effect, so they can feel like they are control a movie, but I do not think all games should have the same styles (or stupid response wheels for that matter) as other popular games. Where is the variety if every RPG tries to be Mass Effect? I loved the kick back to the old school with the normal dialogue options and the player created protagonist and am very suspicious of this new Hawke idea.

Also the whole dialogue wheel is probably solely implemented to make the game more appealing for the console players. I can't think of a single PC only game that uses that style of response. I also question anyone who says that a 'voiceless' PC takes away from the game's flow or feel. It's not like there was any 'voiced' PCs for the great RPG of old and those did not get bogged down in lack of flow or immersion.

I commented on this earlier and I think you'll agree with what I posted too. It's this lack of imagination and the idea that "every game has to be the same" that really irks me. I truly don't understand where Bioware is coming from. The first game sold VERY well and featured a silent protagonist....how did everyone "hate" it?

When I played DAO and KOTOR 1 and 2 I was saying the lines in my head and was completely immersed in the experience. I WAS THE HERO!!! I wasn't playing some hero with a voice. I don't mind games that use this Movie type approach....but they don't all have to be like that.

 

[Juggern4ut20]

I commented on this earlier and I think you'll agree with what I posted too. It's this lack of imagination and the idea that "every game has to be the same" that really irks me. I truly don't understand where Bioware is coming from. The first game sold VERY well and featured a silent protagonist....how did everyone "hate" it?

When I played DAO and KOTOR 1 and 2 I was saying the lines in my head and was completely immersed in the experience. I WAS THE HERO!!! I wasn't playing some hero with a voice. I don't mind games that use this Movie type approach....but they don't all have to be like that.

Yea, I really did not bother reading all the comments from pages 2-6. I'm sure others have expressed that same comments about this. It just shocked me how person just flat out said 'People generally hated the silent protagonist'. What People? Where was this pole that was taken so that I may cast my vote for the opposite. If you hated the silent protagonist than I question if you like Role Playing in general. The player creates the protagonist that s/he wishes to play. If they player hated the protagonist, than that means they hated their own creation? If you want the main character to be a person designed by the game and that you only control during action scenes than that is an Action/Adventure game not an RPG.

That being said, I liked Shepard and how much i could make him my own, but i don't want every game to resort to that style of story telling. I think one of the main reasons for doing this has to do with voice acting in general. In older games, when you named your character the NPCs would respond to you using that character name ( the whole code stuff). In voice acted games, they can not have every voice actor say the unique name that you give your character. So they either respond to your surname (ie Shepard or Revan) or your title (ie Grey Warden or Chosen one/ Bhaal Spawn). Since you have no title in new game, you play as a refugee or something, than they have to give you a title that the voice actors can use in the pre recorded dialogue. It is one of the ways that moving forward by adding voice dialogue takes away from other aspects of the game.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

Hmmm.... I'm still very sceptical. I bought DA on the strength of a review despite my gut instinct that I wouldn't like it. This time I'm sticking with my original "I'm not going to like this" impression.

 

[McNinja]

I swear to god if I'm playing DA2 and I miss a monster who is freaking paralyzed right in front of my I will break the game in half. I absolutely hated the randomness factor in combat, because it would be infuriating to watch myself die because I couldn't stab the damned Hurlock despite him being in front of my yelling at something else. I can't really tell from the videos or press releases, but I hope you can actually play it like an action RPG, where if you hit the damned attack button, you attacked them, and actually land the attack, unless they pulled off some dodge move or blocked it. Blocking makes sense, randomly missing (and I do mean randomly) does not.

Also, runecrafting was the reason I stopped playing Awakening. I wanted the sword that wade crafts if you bring him the materials. I didn't pick up runecrafting in the beginning because I figured it was superfluous, since the traders would have runes. NOPE, apparently while the entire Mass Effect universe was busy switching to Thermal Clips, the traders of Dragon Age were busy dumping their entire rune stock into the Fade. As soon as I found out that I couldn't buy the runes I needed (or even find them. I didn't even find them) I just stopped because I realized how much work I needed to do in order to craft the runes I needed.

 

[tehroc]

No one's demanding shit.

The basic RPG formula is boring and old, and an extremely talented studio tweaked it slightly. The game sold ridiculously and I'm willing to bet MORE people who actually played it liked it than didn't. If you can prove otherwise (without anecdotal evidence), I'll stand down.

Be as much of a tough guy as you want, I don't care. You sure seem pretty demanding when a tried and true formula be changed to suit you and then become threatening and insulting about it. Big deal, a TPS Gears of War clone with some minor RPG fluff added to it sold well, still they removed even more of it cause of the Shooter crowd cried. Shooters drive pretty much the entire market right now.

EDIT: Also, to someone who actually played the game, this

PS Mass Effect's combat is just a very shallow clone of Gears of War, but without an AI that is worth a shit and a difficulty system that only increases the amount of armor and health an opponent has. Mass Effect was shit.

proves that you didn't give the game a fair chance, and you just want to complain about it because you hate the fact that other people like it.

Trying to flamebait me eh. Guess what my 360 profile is linked to Escapist, go ahead and look, I played both games to about 50% found the gameplay progression to be horrible and just a cheap copy of everything that was done in Gears of War with a poor AI. What it did good was, the massive amount of lore to the game, even though most of the people skipped most of that.

 

[TomLikesGuitar]

No one's demanding shit.

The basic RPG formula is boring and old, and an extremely talented studio tweaked it slightly. The game sold ridiculously and I'm willing to bet MORE people who actually played it liked it than didn't. If you can prove otherwise (without anecdotal evidence), I'll stand down.

Be as much of a tough guy as you want, I don't care. You sure seem pretty demanding when a tried and true formula be changed to suit you and then become threatening and insulting about it. Big deal, a TPS Gears of War clone with some minor RPG fluff added to it sold well, still they removed even more of it cause of the Shooter crowd cried. Shooters drive pretty much the entire market right now.

EDIT: Also, to someone who actually played the game, this

PS Mass Effect's combat is just a very shallow clone of Gears of War, but without an AI that is worth a shit and a difficulty system that only increases the amount of armor and health an opponent has. Mass Effect was shit.

proves that you didn't give the game a fair chance, and you just want to complain about it because you hate the fact that other people like it.

Trying to flamebait me eh. Guess what my 360 profile is linked to Escapist, go ahead and look, I played both games to about 50% found the gameplay progression to be horrible and just a cheap copy of everything that was done in Gears of War with a poor AI. What it did good was, the massive amount of lore to the game, even though most of the people skipped most of that.

I'm not trying to be a tough guy... Just know that you're in the minority.

 

[cthulhumythos]

Sure is EA/Sony defence force in The Escapists staff. I know it's hard to try and swallow, but it's true, EA has been Sonys loyal little dog this last time. Who do you think it was that convinced Valve to release Portal 2 on PS3? EA. Who do you think it was that convinced DICE to develop Bad Company 2 with the PS3 as its main platform? EA. Who do you think it was that convinced Bioware to release Mass Effect 2 on the PS3? EA. The facts are obvious, yeah, I used "naughty words" to describe it, but it's true none the less.

you're... really making it sound worse than what you're saying. so EA is putting more games on ps3; whats the problem?

That they're neglecting all other systems, namely the 360 and the PC.

...? they're neglecting the other platforms by getting game developers to port their games to be ps3 as well? the same games that are already for the xbox and pc? i really don't see the problem.

 

[repeating integers]

I'm going to say something that will probably offend Fumbleumble and several other people: If Mass Effect isn't a "true" RPG, I don't want to play a true RPG.

Then dont play RPGs it's that freaking simple. No that's not good enough for you, you have to ruin it for everyone else and demand that it caters to you the non RPG player.

PS Mass Effect's combat is just a very shallow clone of Gears of War, but without an AI that is worth a shit and a difficulty system that only increases the amount of armor and health an opponent has. Mass Effect was shit.

Wow. Somebody's angry.

If you don't like Mass Effect, don't play it. Let all us others who do like it play it. Stick to your old-school RPGs. Don't buy Bioware's games if you think they're not true RPGs.

And for the record: No, I'm not going to play any RPGs. I'm going to play Mass Effect, because I actually like Mass Effect. I view it as a good thing that it isn't a full RPG.

Now stop acting so bloody superior, please?

 

[SouthpawFencer]

You can kill the Archdemon?

And die yourself in the process, which also sucks!

The main benefit to being a Grey Warden, I think, was the authority and respect given to you by your position:

The Regent of Ferelden's envoy couldn't get into Orzammar. The Grey Warden was waved through immediately (although I did stop to chop up said envoy and his bodyguards).

The Dalish Elves told any non-Dalish character that they had a choice of either leaving the forest vertically or horizontally... until they hear the words "Grey Warden", at which point you're allowed to enter.

The Templars at the Circle Tower would have marched you back to the boat and sent you back across to the dock if you hadn't been a Grey Warden.

The Templar commander at Lothering had obvious respect for the Grey Wardens, despite being told that the Grey Wardens were treasonous regicides. He probably should have had you summarily executed and your head delivered to Loghain on a silver platter. Instead, he gives you access to his supply cabinet if you ask nicely, meaning that he risked being declared a traitor himself if the Regent found out.

Plus, you don't get fatally poisoned because a random darkspawn cleverly blocks your sword with his throat and bleeds all over you.

But, ultimately, I think that Wynne called it right during a conversation at the camp: You give up far more than you gain when you become a Grey Warden. I actually liked that, because it implied that your greatness was your own doing, and not because of some blood-based Super Soldier Serum turning you into Captain Ferelden.

 

[duchaked]

hmmm something I might bother trying out when it does come out haha

 

[duchaked]

I'm not sure what I feel about the silent protagonist versus having a voice
a silent protagonist requires me to be fully immersed and to truly view myself in the character's shoes...both of which are unlikely to happen often times for me (not sure, but for me that has worked better in FPS games)

 

[SouthpawFencer]

I realized after playing Dragon Age several times that one of the things I liked about it was that it allowed me to craft my own epic narratives, and sometimes my character wasn't the star of the epic:

First play-through: Prince Alistair, due to his honor and sense of duty, found himself in a situation that could not end well. Even if the Archdemon was destroyed, Ferelden faced a civil war. An agreement to marry the Queen Anara collapsed upon his execution of her father for treason, and there was a very real risk of civil war between his supporters and hers. His fellow Grey Warden (and lover) had used her influence to put him on the throne (something he never wanted) instead of Anora, but he would likely have to order Anora executed to stabilize the kingdom, despite her not having committed any crime. As King, he'd need a healthy heir, forcing him to leave his lover. His lover, either out of grief, or duty, or both, was preparing to sacrifice herself to destroy the Archdemon, since the King of Ferelden was less expendable than a fallen dwarven princess.

In a single move, Alistair ended the Blight, restored the reputation of the Grey Wardens, avenged both his mentor and his half-brother, placed a good ruler on the throne of Ferelden, eliminated the biggest threat to her legitimacy as the rightful ruler, avoided having to murder a woman for political purposes, and saved the life of the woman he loved. As the surviving Grey Warden greeted the cheering crowds in the wake of Alistair's sacrifice, she couldn't help but wonder if he'd planned it that way from the moment he learned about the secret to killing the Archdemon...

As the credits rolled, I sent an IM to a friend: "I finished Dragon Age, and I think I just got outsmarted by my meat-shield!"

I also had an arrogant, former hero, driven to treason, murder and slave-trading by his own ego and paranoia, receive an unexpected chance at redemption by his most bitter foe, and managed to, in dying to slay the Archdemon, redeem himself and save the nation for which he had sacrificed his honor, rank and name to defend.

I could go on, and I haven't even touched on the subplots of the epic (defeating my treacherous brother's best fighters in a tournament, and then dedicating my victory to him to drive home the point that I would help him, but that he had best play straight with me because his lackeys weren't going to be able to take me down...).

It was one of the few games where story made up for a gameplay style that I'm not particularly keen on.

I'm REALLY hoping that Bioware won't screw up that aspect the game.