Pro-life

[anthony87]

Yes there is a lot of "it's possible" in there because frankly, just being born doesn't qualify you for having a really good life.
Shit happens in this world and "Pro-life" people really need to wake up to that fact, yes the child is alive now but what is the consequence and what future have you given to this person because of it?
It may have a loving, well adjusted home (I know of someone who was "an accident" and lives happily) but the case for the most part.

Shit does happen... most definitely. But that doesn't mean you can just take the easy way out.

Even if the chance of a good life for the child is extremely low, that's still a chance.

Even if you knew with 100% certainty that the child's life would be a very negative one, I still stand by the belief that we don't get to choose when another human being deserves to die.

Condemning two or more people after a night of hedonism isn't really the way to go in all of this.
I'm not out to change your mind but it's my $2.

I'd argue that depriving the child of life because you THINK it will live a terrible life isn't the way to go.

It's not a "child". Not at first anyway. At first it's just a thing taking up space in the woman. A woman who should have the choice to get rid of this thing inside her if she wishes.

 

[michiehoward]

Is it just me or does the Escapist get the most "pro life/choice" threads in the winter months?

 

[geK0]

...I don't think the child's life is worth more than the mother's. I think their worth is equal, because they are both human. I'm not saying she should be -made- to die, because you're right - that would be sickening; I'm just saying that if there is a better option available than killing the foetus it should be taken.

I took it as you meant that the mother should die. Sorry about that.
I am pro-choice, but to the extent that cases should be looked into. It should NOT be used as a contraceptive and should be concidered as a last effort. If 2 people can't take care of a baby, put it up for adoption. If for some reason that is not able to be, well...
I am for it but I do not view it lightly. I do not believe it is murder, but non the less it's the chance for life. Contraceptives technically do the same, prevent the possibility of life, but we still allow them to be. Then again, if we didn't male masturbation should also be banned and that would only resault in disasters.
But the bottom line is, for my part, that abortion should stay legal and each case should be taken under view by a psychologist and someone from a social sector. In some cases at leat, when rape or likely death of the mother, it should be all her choice.

Seems odd that we have pretty much the same opinion but place ourselves at opposite ends of the spectrum doesn't it? : \

My problem pretty much is that so many people don't consider it a last resort.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Is it just me or does the Escapist get the most "pro life/choice" threads in the winter months?

These threads are made to sustain us through the harsh winter months. The rage keeps us warm.

Well, I say 'us', I'm not touching this thread with a ten foot pole. I'll just say that your opinion on the subject truly comes to light when you have to actually deal with this scenario.

 

[Steinar Valsson]

Seems odd that we have pretty much the same opinion but place ourselves at opposite ends of the spectrum doesn't it? : \

My problem pretty much is that so many people don't consider it a last resort.

I guess you can scale it, pro-life to pro-choice 0 - 10. 0 being those that always deny abortion at any point, no matter what and 10 being those that think of it like any other minor surgery. It's the 7-10's I oppose. Those that would rather sacrifice the life of the mother, physical and social. And those 0 - 1's that simply think of it like liposuction, something almost fashionable. But like I have said, if the reason for the deciscion is made of religious decisions... I oppose that in general, that a decision affecting so many can be because of interpritation of personal belief.
But yeah, we seem to be on the same page, same chapter at least.

 

[Griffolion]

Like everything else, freedom needs to reign. So whoever's pregnant should always be able too choose what to do with their unborn child.

I do also think that parties with a vested interest like a father (providing father has proven his willingness to be fully involved with everything that's going on) should be able to at least have their say on the matter.

This topic certainly brings out the hate in people.

 

[cthulhumythos]

Is it just me or does the Escapist get the most "pro life/choice" threads in the winter months?

These threads are made to sustain us through the harsh winter months. The rage keeps us warm.

Well, I say 'us', I'm not touching this thread with a ten foot pole. I'll just say that your opinion on the subject truly comes to light when you have to actually deal with this scenario.

heh, yeah. i've never seen the escapist so divided. actually, that's a lie, most controversial topics do that.

i'd say my opinion, but my morals are slightly screwed up the wazoo; and hate-filled responses are not my favorite kind to get.

 

[oktalist]

Yep, point made well by someone on BBC Newsnight a couple of days ago, if you don't support a woman's right to choose to have an abortion, then you effectively support forcing women to undergo unwanted pregnancies. And if you think that's okay then we have bigger problems than I ever imagined.

 

[Steinar Valsson]

Why in the world should it be taken under review by a psychologist? You don't think people can make their own choices?

And why should it not be used as a contraceptive if people wanted to be that stupid? Why should it be last effort?

You're not really pro-choice if you're going to limit them like that.

The psychologist was just a suggestion of a profession to determine the reason or something like that.
And an abortion should not be used as a contraceptive for very simple reasons. It's like getting fat, having liposuction, getting fat, getting liposuction, getting... There are smarter ways to go about it. It's just stupid. The main reason might be that if people think of getting pregnant as some "oops" people might not view it as seriously. New life is at it's beginning and they think "oops, well let's go off to the doctor, again." I'm not saying people should be legally banned from doing this, but it's just stupid, irresponsible and desensitising to the concept of pregnancy. It should not be made a day-by-day thing to get pregnant and then abort. I'm for abortion when other methods fail and people don't want/can't have the baby.
I guess what I'm saying is that it should have some impact. Women are not supposed to feel bad aboud getting an abortion if they needed it but they should still know that a new life was in the making.
I'm not limiting the choice itself, simply saying that this choice should not become the new condomn. Something you can get at 7-11. There is more weight to it. But banning it would be like banning condoms, stupid and unthoughtful.

 

[JoeCool385]

They're anti-woman. Simple as it gets, anti-woman. They don't like them. They don't like women. They believe a woman's primary role is to function as a brood mare for the state.

Yes, my mother, my sister, my grandmother, my aunts, and my wife are all anti-women. They don't like women and believe a woman's primary role is to function as a brood mare for the state.

Seriously, if George Carlin wasn't so busy making ridiculous straw men, he might have been funny.

I say people shouldn't interfere in what is not their buisness.

...said the man who lived next door to me, who was molesting his daughter and beating his wife.

Plus, it's better to offer the abortions in legitimate, clean, and sanitary environments rather than opening up a black market for abortions and letting people prey and profit off of all those women.

Kermit Gosnell [http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/PDFs/GrandJuryWomensMedical.pdf] is thankful for your support of his legitimate, clean, and sanitary environment.

 

[Steinar Valsson]

I'm not limiting the choice itself, simply saying that this choice should not become the new condomn. Something you can get at 7-11. There is more weight to it. But banning it would be like banning condoms, stupid and unthoughtful.

I'll wait to say more on that after I see if you clarify.

So I shall clarify.
I don't mean to limit the choice, I would simply like the view of that choice to be bigger, more substantial then buying a condom. Going to the stoe and buying them is a choice with no real implication. But having an abortion is aborting what would become life. I'm simply saying that there should always be a difference in thought between those two. I'm happy with how it is today in regions that allow it completely. I simply don't want to see people making this choice without thought. There, finally got it out of my head into text. That is how it is today, mostly. People go in, having thought about "what if I kept it?" And for some reason decided that they didn't want to keep it (they being any women in this situation). This choice shouldn't be like buying a condom, a light choice. It's a question of what does this choice mean. Sex with a contraceptive eliminates the possibility of life, so it basically has the same affect as male masturbation in relations to pregnancy. But when pregnancy occurs, the life part has begun. Then there is the question, do we want it or not. Many women have said they wanted to keep it and ended happy about it even if they were not sure at first. But many have not. People should at least think about the possibility "Do I want to be a parent?" That's all I'm saying. If they decide not to, that's their choice. And I'm for them choosing - pro-choice.

 

[Steinar Valsson]

Yes - the woman probably should have final say with regard to whether or not she wants to have a child. But if she gets pregnant - whether by accident or not - that's a new human being... and depriving that human being of life would be wrong.

At what point do you consider it a human being? Where do you personally distinguish between a mass of cells and a person? I'm simply asking out of curiosity.

Kermit Gosnell [http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/PDFs/GrandJuryWomensMedical.pdf] is thankful for your support of his legitimate, clean, and sanitary environment.

That's a bit harsh and quite the ridiculous claim. It's like if you wanted more medical research and I told you Josef Rudolf Mengele [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele] wanted to thank you.

 

[Digitaldreamer7]

I'm pro choice, but anti abortion.

 

[ks1234]

I am pro-choice... Main reason? Because THERE ARE ALREADY TOO MANY FUCKING PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET, anything we can do to keep the FUCKING population down (even if it's just a little bit).
Also, I don't want anymore illegitimate bastard children and/or their parents on my fucking TAX dollar, I would much rather my taxes go to an abortion paid for by the government than fucking support someones fucking kid for 18 years because they cant fucking afford it.
Also, children are fucking leeches ALL of them... if some fucking woman doesn't want some fucking PARASITE leeching off of them for the next 18 and 3/4 years, then I say MORE FUCKING POWER TO THEM, give them a fucking medal, applaud them if necessary.
Lastly, for all of you fucksticks who are going to say "You were a child once too!" or "if you think the world is so overpopulated, why don't you kill yourself", you know what I have to say to you sir/madam? Eat a dick.

 

[Steinar Valsson]

Alright, I wasn't sure if how you wanted people to think about it was bleeding over into what you thought the exact laws about it ought to be. And now that's cleared up.

Yeah, I should have skipped the whole psychologist thing, just popped to my mind and I didn't think it through. I suppose he would be useful in dealing with the after emotions if there were any severe ones and somehow mixed it up with the law, don't know. Stupid of me. Didn't mean to waste time and keyboard strokes, for you or me.