Ps:T, why no one talks about it?

[communist gamer]

So i was poking around on the internet, reading some reviews, going through the gaming community and i noticed something that shocked me. Now many critics/gamers etc. often complain about not having many games that are story driven, that have strong developing charters that you can identify with, or that have a story at all, yet almost never do i hear them mention Planescape: Torment as a game that did all the story business right, i mean as far as story and character go, Ps:T is a masterpiece, a one of a kind game that did it perfectly. My question is, why is that? Is it because not a lot of people played it (if you have not go play it, trust me it is worth it), is it because the people fear fan boys who will rip any one criticizing the game apart? Now im not saying the Ps:T is a perfect game, but its a great game that shows us that it's indeed possible to make a game thats driven by narrative and characters instead of exity-shooty-action and impossible graphics. Why do people talk about the FF, SH and such when planescape....well did it better (at least in my opinion, but it's a opinion that everyone i know who played the game shares) and the only complains i heard about the game are is that the combat is not so good (true) and that it's not a game to turn on and play for 30 minutes before turning it off and going to sleep (indeed true, tons of text and requires you to focus a lot, but then its a RPG done right and not a action game) can anyone solve this mystery because im baffled by this phenomenon

 

[Auberon]

Because Infinite Engine is relatively grognard-niche by today. And Torment is anything but conventional (as Planescape itself too), when compared to Baldur's Gate - resulting in even smaller niche for Planescape fans.

And I seriously doubt your average modern RPG player can get past pixel graphics, AD&D combat and sandbox. Pharod is relatively far into the game, and you'll just wander around doing things.

captcha: barking mad

No, my TNO is not mad enough to join Xaositects.

 

[communist gamer]

so dose that make me weird for replaying fallout 1-tactics at the moment or gamers too picky? anyways this still dose not solve the problem that no one is using it as a example of how to make a good story for a game.

 

[The Madman]

It's a pretty niche rpg truth be told, and for all its story-telling strengths you'd also have to be blind not to see its weaknesses as well. Poor combat, muddy visuals, ill balancing, and an extremely heavy reliance on dialogue tend to make high barrier for entry to ensure it stays a fairly niche title.

Even so you look on any decent 'top rpg' list and you'll probably see it pop up somewhere so it's hardly a forgotten game. Hell, there's another topic about it on the Escapist forums right now on the front page. It's just a game that's really hard to compare to most modern games and whose niche audience makes it a bit of an obscure reference to make even if it is relevant, which is why it rarely pops up in reviews and discussion for most modern rpg.

So it's not so much that no one talks about it, just that it's rarely very relevant and when it is brought up it tends to be among a smaller audience of fans rather than in a more general audience sort of audience.

 

[briankoontz]

Lots and lots of people talk about it. It's one of the most popular and most highly regarded by critics RPG of all time. It's so popular that it continues to be talked about 15 years after being released - something very few games can lay claim to.

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

Huh? I see it get mentioned all the time whenever the topic of good RPGs comes up, as it's remembered for having one of the finest stories and some of the best-written NPCs in RPG history. It's not really an obscure gem by any means. Hell, I wouldn't even call it a cult classic, as it has a very large fanbase still to this day and gets brought up all the time in RPG discussions, and is also often used as a reference point when discussing modern RPGs as well.

 

[MysticSlayer]

As someone who never played the game or most other older RPGs, it seems to get brought up a lot more than most RPGs from its time. The only reason I have a mild interest in eventually playing it one day is because of how often it gets brought up in discussion while most RPGs of the same time seem to have been completely forgotten.

 

[Zhukov]

Because it's ancient and overrated.

Hurr hurr.

Seriously though, I find it tends to get brought up basically any time there's a discussion of old-school RPGs, or often just RPGs in general.

 

[Pink Gregory]

Well when we talk about a good story for a game, we're usually talking about narrative being interwoven with gameplay, or at least we are now.

Much as PST is a well-regarded (perhaps the most well regarded) RPG story, the main criticisms that come up are 'be prepared for book-level reading' and 'the combat's terrible, but you can bypass it'.

Whether or not those are true, good writing in a game is more than just text.

Also, everyone who's ever been into CRPGs knows what Planescape Torment is. CRPGs are a niche genre. That's why you're not going to see it on IGN. Don't see why you need to, really.

Also, y'know, Tides of Numenara is happening.

 

[King of Asgaard]

Why? Because nothing can change the nature of a man. It may not be the right answer, but it's MINE.

Seriously speaking, it's not spoken of because it is old. Most know of it, many have played it but the fact that it's coming up on 15 years old means that it's not relevant in everyday discussion.
When I finished my playthrough of it last year, I ached to discuss it with others, but I couldn't find anyone for several reasons (next gen coming out, EA being themselves, etc etc). With that said, PS:T is guaranteed to come up when threads about narrative turn up, usually to much well-earned praise.

Bottom line is, just because no one's talking about it now doesn't mean it's fallen from public memory. Doubtless, when Tides of Numenara comes out there will be inevitable comparisons and hopefully some proper discussions about it again.

 

[Anachronism]

It gets brought up on these here forums practically every time someone starts talking about RPGs, especially old RPGs. Hell, someone made a thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.856881-Going-into-Planescape-Torment-for-the-first-time-anything-I-need-to-know#21228527] about it just two days ago. There was also the small matter of that record-breaking Kickstarter campaign to make a spiritual sequel, in case you've forgotten.

As for why it doesn't come up too much in the mainstream press: no one plays AD&D any more, 2D sprite-based graphics are extremely dated, the combat is crap, and there are several metric tonnes of (admittedly great) text-based dialogue. For someone who's used to the convenience and simplicity of modern console games, there's a very high barrier to entry.

 

[RavingSturm]

a lot of posers say they like the game but honestly a lot of them have not really played or finished the game. combat isnt rewarding, going thru the tons of text make the game a real challenge to power thru on a 2nd run. Fallout1/2 are better and more rewarding games than this one imho. Ripping apart some deathclaws/supermutants/enclave with the bozar or rocket launcher never gets old.

 

[RJ 17]

so dose that make me weird for replaying fallout 1-tactics at the moment or gamers too picky? anyways this still dose not solve the problem that no one is using it as a example of how to make a good story for a game.

As the person with the first response said: few people (relatively speaking) have played it...as such there's few people to reference it. Though to be fair, there's a topic out there right now regarding a new member to the forums no liking Final Fantasy because he played FFXIII-2 and then FFX and found both of their stories to be crap. In that topic someone mentions that PS:T has a great story.

I doubt anyone that has played PS:T would consider it to be a bad game, and those that have played it do bring it up in conversations about story telling and story in general. However, again, you get to the issue of the game being a cult favorite...just not that many people out there that have played it.

 

[Fishyash]

I finished the game about 20 minutes ago. It was a very enjoyable game, with great writing. Of course like everyone else says the combat is... lackluster to say the least but overall didn't ruin my experience of the game. The only thing I regret about playing the game was that it pretty much took me years to beat. I'd play it in large sessions, then stop for several months, then get back to it (the main reason for me putting it off was there were lots of technical issues I had with the game). I might play it again though (in a year or two's time anyways, so the story won't be fresh in my mind).

The game does come up a lot in narrative-based discussions though. And when Tides of Numenara is released lots of people will be sharing their thoughts on the game and will be comparing it to Planescape: Torment. Myself I'm just hoping they remember there was more to the PS:T's writing than "What can change the nature of a man?". Pillars of Eternity is likely to be compared as well.

On a seperate note though, I wish there were more games set in Planescape. After playing PS:T I became very interested in the setting.

EDIT: Oh and I am planning on playing Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer soon, which I also heard has really good writing. I want to finish the Original Campaign first though, which has been nothing special so far.

 

[Something Amyss]

Lots and lots of people talk about it. It's one of the most popular and most highly regarded by critics RPG of all time. It's so popular that it continues to be talked about 15 years after being released - something very few games can lay claim to.

Yeah, it took me a second to realise what Ps:T was (brain cramp) and then I was all "wait, what?"

I've never played it, but I see a bunch of people wax on about its virtues and wax nostalgic about its time in gaming.

 

[Auberon]

Planescape died with TSR mid-transition to 3E. Adam Warren's trilogy for NWN has final part taking place in sort-of Sigil, but not much else to my knowledge.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

Sorry to say but what message boards are you hanging around on? Name any game that is 15 or so years old, never saw any sort of remake or sequel, that gets as much attention as Planescape: Torment does. You won't find too many of them.

 

[communist gamer]

I finished the game about 20 minutes ago. It was a very enjoyable game, with great writing. Of course like everyone else says the combat is... lackluster to say the least but overall didn't ruin my experience of the game. The only thing I regret about playing the game was that it pretty much took me years to beat. I'd play it in large sessions, then stop for several months, then get back to it (the main reason for me putting it off was there were lots of technical issues I had with the game). I might play it again though (in a year or two's time anyways, so the story won't be fresh in my mind).

The game does come up a lot in narrative-based discussions though. And when Tides of Numenara is released lots of people will be sharing their thoughts on the game and will be comparing it to Planescape: Torment. Myself I'm just hoping they remember there was more to the PS:T's writing than "What can change the nature of a man?". Pillars of Eternity is likely to be compared as well.

On a seperate note though, I wish there were more games set in Planescape. After playing PS:T I became very interested in the setting.

EDIT: Oh and I am planning on playing Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer soon, which I also heard has really good writing. I want to finish the Original Campaign first though, which has been nothing special so far.

planescape is a tough setting to tackle, and needs a experienced team to do that, and looking at the level of writing in most recent games YAGER entertainment is the only in my opinion could pull it off. I mean we live in a world where "the last of us" is considered a deep and emotional story (please note that the games story is not bad, but you know unless the game has a Dostoevsky level of writing, it wont be story all that worth drooling over in my book). You alsoe have to remember that....well planescape is extremely strange and usually you dont have typical campaigns in it, as far as i remember they usually ask a tough question. Black Isle pulled it off after creating fallout 1 and 2, which themselves are extremely well written games, and well Spec ops: the line is the last game that managed to pull my emotional strings as hard as planescape.

 

[SilverAliisza]

Ps:T was probably one of my favorite truly story driven RPGs, I recall grabbing it the day it came out and playing it for about half a year, starting the game over just to see what choices I could have made.
But it's not my favorite one. Thing is that game is not for everyone and I personally know many people who didn't finish it because they just didn't have enough patience to read everything, the combat was really lame, a lot of times you would get lost as to what is your objective because the journal was obscure and I admit that without someone helping me (I don't recall the details now, after all those years) I would have never finished the game myself, because of some obscure item I needed for a mission close to the ending.

These days I think more people bring up BG and BG2 because those 2 games had much better combat and a better quest system.
Interestingly enough the modding community for it is still alive, much like for BG and BG2, which made BG 1 use BG2 engine (with TUTU) and did a better job than the recent re-releases of the titles.